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Terry Mullaney

Two tier SL on the way

724 posts in this topic

But what good is money if there aren't the players to buy.

We have a thriving youth and amateur scene to draw from......isn't that the whole point of developing and nurturing grass roots rugby?

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1. Gatcliffe

2. Two tier SL on the way or Two tier SL on the way?

3. See image.

cards_image.jpg

Well slap my wrist for adding an e to Gatcliffe and forgetting to end the name of the thread with a ? Pathetic but oh so typical. As for point three, the house of cards has already started to collapse if you hadn't noticed

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The current system (14 team licensing) may have its critics, but it needs to be given more time. Already there is proof it is yielding positive results.

I remember when I started following the English game a decade ago, there was only 4 decent teams (Leeds, Wigan, St Helen's and Bradford). Almost all team played in front of poor crowds in ramshackle stadiums and the other 8 teams were constantly tonked by the big 4. Teams were overflowing with 2nd rate imports, and youth development was virtually non-existant.

Since licensing, we have seen nearly all teams either have new stadia, or are in the process of building them. Crowds are up across the board, youth development is getting better and better with some brilliant young players coming through, and in greater numbers. There are less imports playing in h SL, which is giving greater first team opportunities to young Brits.

Most importantly though, the competition is becoming more even, with the big 4 concept no longer a factor. I would say there is presently a big 8, with 4 more clubs developing at a rate where they will be up with the best in a few more years. Yes, you still get the odd thrashing like Hull v Cas on Friday, but for the large part, the ESL is unpredictable and anyone can win on their day. I also believe most teams are capable of winning silverware in the next few years.

Yes, when you compare the ESL's financial outlook to the NRL, it seems poor in comparison, however the NRL is a massive game down under, with attention and media coverage the equivalent of the EPL in the UK. But as a competition on its own, the ESL is damn good, and much better than it was under P&R. IMO, going back to P&R would be a massive ste backwards.

Give the current set-up more time and it will yield further positive results and get better and better.

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I think you lost something across the miles goldcoaster because that doesn't sound exactly like the SL I know.

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The current system (14 team licensing) may have its critics, but it needs to be given more time. Already there is proof it is yielding positive results.

I remember when I started following the English game a decade ago, there was only 4 decent teams (Leeds, Wigan, St Helen's and Bradford). Almost all team played in front of poor crowds in ramshackle stadiums and the other 8 teams were constantly tonked by the big 4. Teams were overflowing with 2nd rate imports, and youth development was virtually non-existant.

Since licensing, we have seen nearly all teams either have new stadia, or are in the process of building them. Crowds are up across the board, youth development is getting better and better with some brilliant young players coming through, and in greater numbers. There are less imports playing in h SL, which is giving greater first team opportunities to young Brits.

Most importantly though, the competition is becoming more even, with the big 4 concept no longer a factor. I would say there is presently a big 8, with 4 more clubs developing at a rate where they will be up with the best in a few more years. Yes, you still get the odd thrashing like Hull v Cas on Friday, but for the large part, the ESL is unpredictable and anyone can win on their day. I also believe most teams are capable of winning silverware in the next few years.

Yes, when you compare the ESL's financial outlook to the NRL, it seems poor in comparison, however the NRL is a massive game down under, with attention and media coverage the equivalent of the EPL in the UK. But as a competition on its own, the ESL is damn good, and much better than it was under P&R. IMO, going back to P&R would be a massive ste backwards.

Give the current set-up more time and it will yield further positive results and get better and better.

Increasing the numbers to 14, partly to include an expansion club from Wales, was probably unsustainable in the long term. I seem to remember Nigel Wood admitting as much at the time, saying that a full-time league of that size needed new sources of players from outside of the traditional heartlands (and that meant Wales at the time).

With the Crusaders having left, that 2 club expansion in numbers was effectively from the same concentration of clubs in the north that has always made up the game in Britain - at the worse time possible in terms of the economic environment.

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I think you lost something across the miles goldcoaster because that doesn't sound exactly like the SL I know.

Who's widdled on your snowman tonight?!

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Who's widdled on your snowman tonight?!

Does gc's description of SL seem accurate to you aitch? Some is but some isn't.

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Does gc's description of SL seem accurate to you aitch? Some is but some isn't.

It's a fair assessment, it's a remedy if you like for those who see only the bad in the current set-up, not that I'm pointing the finger. It's not great but it's not bab anyway!

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It's a fair assessment, it's a remedy if you like for those who see only the bad in the current set-up, not that I'm pointing the finger. It's not great but it's not bab anyway!

I think there is too much doom and gloom about SL. Sure, it isn't the NRL, but we've already covered the enormous advantages the NRL has in its favour. Add to that England is recovering from recession, Australia never had the recession. So when you consider these factors, SL ain't so bad.

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You mean a second tier club?

Well Hudgell did it i suppose but then found it a bit rich. O'Connor did it and the jury is out.

Your basing the future of this proposed project on unidentified foreign players and unknown rich investors coming over the horizon.

You lost your grip on reality again?

I'm not basing the future on anything. get off your high horse. This is a proposal being floated by an executive with one of the more successful SL clubs, namely, Warrington.

You cannot dismiss unknown investors out of hand. Who knew Glover and Koukash and 2 restaurants Khan were interested in RL 2 years ago.

The new SL clubs will have to make do with the Sky money and current investors to begin with but for you to dismiss the possibility of unknown outside investors being founs is flying in the face of recent SL history

On the player front, you conveniently ignored the part of my post on players fron nw areas of the UK and further use of players curently starring as DR wannabees.and UK heritage Aussies The foreign players was only the fourth part of my suggestions

The trouble with you is that anything progessive which dosn't conform to your blinkered narrow version of SL has ignorant phrases thrown at it like, fantasy land, losing grip on reality etc etc. You have this long standing hatred of anything non SL or possible SL. Get ovet it.

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Regression is self defeating. SL might think a 10 team league is a panacea for all the games ills but it is not. In a ten team league the bottom 2 would just replicate the problems of the bottom two in a 14 team league and the repetitive fixtures and lack of variety of teams to appear on TV would result in stagnation and the erosion of viewing figures due to those concerns and the shrnking of the geographical footprint of the game leading to a loss of susbcrbibers for Sky

yes

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Lets agree to disagree, I can't even begin to discuss anything as a serious proposal without some sort of explanation of the obvious problem of funding six more superleague clubs when the game is in a financial mire and there aren't the players to go round.

me neither

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Basketball is many times bigger than RL. It should be easier for them to get one simply by association. I want a title sponsor too asap. But I don't enjoy matches less because of it.

In the uk??

If so thanks I never knew.

I'm just fearing the worst for some clubs.

What is the bit in bold based on.

You are actually wrong. People are associated with SL, so it clearly has a value. Nobody has come forward prepared to pay what the RFL deem to be the value of SL. Nothing more than that.

Based on we've got nothing for a brand, a major brand in the sky sports portfolio, yet no title sponsor.

6 games into the season means one fifth of the season gone, loss of revenue is never good,add the drop in crowds, how much damage is / could this do on some clubs??

KR , castleford, Wakefield (their main sponsor went bust) Steve O' Connor at widnes has already stated Widnes need bigger gates.

DaveT I'm really worried for the game as a whole.

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As said before, we're doing as well as can be expected given the current financial climate

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Increasing the numbers to 14, partly to include an expansion club from Wales, was probably unsustainable in the long term. I seem to remember Nigel Wood admitting as much at the time, saying that a full-time league of that size needed new sources of players from outside of the traditional heartlands (and that meant Wales at the time).

With the Crusaders having left, that 2 club expansion in numbers was effectively from the same concentration of clubs in the north that has always made up the game in Britain - at the worse time possible in terms of the economic environment.

Well remembered there MH.......

Back to 12 remains odds on?

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On the player front, you conveniently ignored the part of my post on players from new areas of the UK and further use of players curently starring as DR wannabees.and UK heritage Aussies The foreign players was only the fourth part of my suggestions

I really didn't know there were all those pro players out there, right that's it SL1, SL2 and SL3 for me.

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How about we stop messing about with things all the time in some desperate bid for more attention?

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Those advocating conferences are advocating a further reduction in the quality of the competition.

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Those advocating conferences are advocating a further reduction in the quality of the competition.

Correct.

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Those advocating conferences are advocating a further reduction in the quality of the competition.

Those advocating SL1 and SL2 are just replicating what we already have but with more frequent P&R and more, but still not enough, money thrown at it. Sound familiar?

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Those advocating SL1 and SL2 are just replicating what we already have but with more frequent P&R and more, but still not enough, money thrown at it. Sound familiar?

I think most people are smart enough to realise that adding 6 or more fully pro clubs will require more tv money from sky or whoever.

i.e. if sky don't go for it, then it's not going to happen

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Those advocating SL1 and SL2 are just replicating what we already have but with more frequent P&R and more, but still not enough, money thrown at it. Sound familiar?

But they're not though. Life isn't black or white.

We don't have (and I believe have never had) a top league of ten pro clubs. That would provide more intensity.

We've also never had a second tier of full time pro clubs. That would provide more depth than we've had.

In no way whatsoever is it the same as what we have had.

Whether it's the right option or not I'm aren't sure. But it's definitely not the same as what we've had. And it's definitely worth discussing. It sounds a good alternative should we choose to return to P&R.

2 conferences however would further dilute the league and further increase the gulf in class between the top clubs and bottom. Quality, not quantity.

Until we have pro clubs drawing players from specific areas that don't cross over (like London, the Midlands, Wales, different areas of France, etc) any increase in the league will just be drawing from the same talent pool.

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I think most people are smart enough to realise that adding 6 or more fully pro clubs will require more tv money from sky or whoever.

I quite agree, that's the concensus of opinion so far, but some people still don't seem to get the fact that there aren't enough quality pro players either and you can't assume every semi pro lad with a job or a business will drop all that just to play RL full time in a world where it may all end in a month or two with an awkward tackle, or on a coaches whim.

It's a great thread and it's got us all talking but I do wish whoever interviewed or took that quote from the Warrington CEO had said where's the money and players coming from? Why won't this just be another yo-yo set up? How will you get by playing Leeds possibly six times a season?

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I quite agree, that's the concensus of opinion so far, but some people still don't seem to get the fact that there aren't enough quality pro players either and you can't assume every semi pro lad with a job or a business will drop all that just to play RL full time in a world where it may all end in a month or two with an awkward tackle, or on a coaches whim.

It's a great thread and it's got us all talking but I do wish whoever interviewed or took that quote from the Warrington CEO had said where's the money and players coming from? Why won't this just be another yo-yo set up? How will you get by playing Leeds possibly six times a season?

you genuinely dont believe 500 players couldnt be found? Genuinely?

You are stifling discussion with the money point. You can make whatever rules you want about the sc to make the money work, and as has been said, the plan for this may be that it never comes in until central funding is such so that it can be afforded. Put it this way Gatcliffe knows more about this than you or I!

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me neither

why not?

We all discuss things like world cup structures etc without seeing financial business plans.

Its up to the leaders to sort out the financials.

There are so many other angles and pros and cons to this structure that get ignored because of the same old posts.

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