Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Pie tries

(Renamed thread) What RL can learn from the union 6 Nations

156 posts in this topic

It's like turning a supertanker; it takes time to change people's minds. There are many fans who are passionate about Rugby League and will watch every single club game of the season, whether their team's playing or not, but just can't be bothered with Internationals.

I'm sure years of cobbled-together international fixtures haven't helped, but whether you like the current setup or not, it is more structured and planned now than it has been for years.

But it is still subject to the whims of organisations who do not appear to be accountable. Like last year, because the Australians were an ickle bit tired and said they wouldn't come out and play. Can you imagine Brazil or Italy telling FIFA they didn't feel like turning up for internationals? And if they did, can you imagine there being no punishment whatsoever? Of course not.

We can all point how Aussie rugby league undersells it's international dimension, or offer excuses for why some "passionate" fans, bedrock of the sport that they are, are apparently more interested in watching their club tyros go at it - than see the best rugby footballing athletes in the world. I don't actually think passionate is a synonym of narrow minded; it's frankly a bit overdone and a bit too "soccer" for my liking.

IMO you're in the realms of diminishing returns bringing Brasil, Italy and FIFA into the argument; not so much apples and oranges as Brussels sprouts and watermelons. We are where we in RL - I'm personally unconvinced by the notion of any sport except soccer having a world cup tournament per se, but that doesn't mean I won't go to at least one of the big three games this autumn.

I went to the Wembley double header and what a great day out it was but it would have been even better if some of those passionate folk pulled their fingers out and filled the top tier. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We can all point how Aussie rugby league undersells it's international dimension, or offer excuses for why some "passionate" fans, bedrock of the sport that they are, are apparently more interested in watching their club tyros go at it - than see the best rugby footballing athletes in the world. I don't actually think passionate is a synonym of narrow minded; it's frankly a bit overdone and a bit too "soccer" for my liking.

IMO you're in the realms of diminishing returns bringing Brasil, Italy and FIFA into the argument; not so much apples and oranges as Brussels sprouts and watermelons. We are where we in RL - I'm personally unconvinced by the notion of any sport except soccer having a world cup tournament per se, but that doesn't mean I won't go to at least one of the big three games this autumn.

I went to the Wembley double header and what a great day out it was but it would have been even better if some of those passionate folk pulled their fingers out and filled the top tier. :rolleyes:

What I'm thinking is that marketing internationals to non-RL folk might be more productive - the people who would go to the the British Formula 1 Grand Prix, the Six Nations, the Grand National because they are a big day out, rather than because they are life-long and knowledgeable followers of those sports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I'm thinking is that marketing internationals to non-RL folk might be more productive - the people who would go to the the British Formula 1 Grand Prix, the Six Nations, the Grand National because they are a big day out, rather than because they are life-long and knowledgeable followers of those sports.

Agreed and good point. I heard a lot of London accents at Wembley certainly. But I don't think "rugby league folk" should get off that easily because England has arguably their best team now than for a decade. They deserve to be supported.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I'm thinking is that marketing internationals to non-RL folk might be more productive - the people who would go to the the British Formula 1 Grand Prix, the Six Nations, the Grand National because they are a big day out, rather than because they are life-long and knowledgeable followers of those sports.

Yep - it would appear that this is what they have done for the RLWC this year. The fact that they have sold over 35k for the final already suggests that this isn't just traditional RL fans as they are not really know for buying tickets early in large numbers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but who is settling for 2nd best? I'm certainly not. I'm supporting my team in the hope that they will win.

No other major sport has seen its fans abandon the England team as quickly as rl simply because the team isnt the best.

Agree with that, I love going to the Eng Aus games because I hope that I will see us win. 2011 at Wembley was a fantastic event and a great atmosphere, it felt like a big international! There is something to be said about taking internationals to big venues that are not regular Super League grounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People that keep saying "it's the fans' fault" are not offering ANY solutions.

"The fans need to get off their backsides and support their country" is not a solution.

What suggestions do those blaming the fans have to get them off their backsides?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People that keep saying "it's the fans' fault" are not offering ANY solutions.

"The fans need to get off their backsides and support their country" is not a solution.

What suggestions do those blaming the fans have to get them off their backsides?

How many RL fans, regular ones, are not aware of RL internationals? It can't be many.

Non RL fans can boost the numbers but we have enough RL fans to produce decent crowds at Internationals *with no prompting or persuading from the RFL*. Other punters are the ones that should take persuading, not people already into RL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Part of the problem is that England or GB games are usually at the same old heartland towns and it is a dour day out bar the game.

It would be far better to play England RL games on the road, preferably where Union and Football national teams dont play either - e.g. At places like Bristol, or Cornwall or Norfolk. This would be a real special day/weekend out forNortherners and would pull in newbies/locals and spread toa wider audience

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They tried all that in the 2000wc though Lobby. It was hardly a massive success.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Part of the problem is that England or GB games are usually at the same old heartland towns and it is a dour day out bar the game.

It would be far better to play England RL games on the road, preferably where Union and Football national teams dont play either - e.g. At places like Bristol, or Cornwall or Norfolk. This would be a real special day/weekend out forNortherners and would pull in newbies/locals and spread toa wider audience

I agree with your opening line. To suggest taking games to Cornwall or Norfolk as the solution is nonsense!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many RL fans, regular ones, are not aware of RL internationals? It can't be many.

Non RL fans can boost the numbers but we have enough RL fans to produce decent crowds at Internationals *with no prompting or persuading from the RFL*. Other punters are the ones that should take persuading, not people already into RL.

So what's the solution then? You're still just pointing the finger and offering nothing.

You're also not offering any thought out reasons a to why they're not coming. You're not scratching hard enough below the surface.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what's the solution then? You're still just pointing the finger and offering nothing.

You're also not offering any thought out reasons a to why they're not coming. You're not scratching hard enough below the surface.

I don't understand where you are coming from mate....is it unreasonable to expect RL fans to want to attend International RL games? Well is it?

I expect a Coldplay concert is populated with mainly Coldplay fans and they don't rely on Oasis fans to fill it? Why *wouldn't* RL fans want to attend without being bribed or persuaded?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They tried all that in the 2000wc though Lobby. It was hardly a massive success.

Playing outside the heartlands was more successful in the 2000WC than playing in the heartlands. Anyone remember 5k at Saints to watch England? The WC was undone by bad press, too many sumultaneous games at the wrong time of year, with bad weather. Perhaps the non-heartland town choices were wrong too? They were at small places with big Union clubs, eg Gloucester, Llanelli. Daft

I was at the Aus v Samoa SF at Watford and it was on the same day as Eng V Ireland at Leeds so there was no chance of doing both games.

I was serious about places like Cornwall (huge rugby place but neglected by England RU and no big club), Norfolk (neglected by everything bar Alan Partridge), and Bristol (nice big city with underperforming football and RU clubs).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand where you are coming from mate....is it unreasonable to expect RL fans to want to attend International RL games? Well is it?

I expect a Coldplay concert is populated with mainly Coldplay fans and they don't rely on Oasis fans to fill it? Why *wouldn't* RL fans want to attend without being bribed or persuaded?

Where I'm coming from is that simply saying "they should be coming" doesn't offer a solution to the problem. The reason it doesn't is because if it was that simple they'd be coming already!

Sometimes the problems aren't clear. The fact is you can't see them because you can't offer any other reasons.

You keep grouping RL fans together and expecting them to have the same reasons and motivations to watch international RL. This CLEARLY isn't the case. Club RL and international RL aren't the same thing. People that are motivated to watch club RL do not all watch it because they are fans of rugby league itself. That is a fact. They cannot be expected to want to watch international RL just because they have a passing interest ( or eveb a vested interest) in their club.

There is so much more to it than simply "you're a rugby league fan, you should be coming."

You really need to scratch further beneath the surface to understand people's behaviours. The reason you're struggling to do this is because you can't take your personal motivations for the game out of the equation and look at what others' may be.

People do not attend sports games simply because they like watching that sport. That again is another fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was serious about places like Cornwall (huge rugby place but neglected by England RU and no big club), Norfolk (neglected by everything bar Alan Partridge), and Bristol (nice big city with underperforming football and RU clubs).

That doesn't mean it's a good idea to bang a top RL game there. You could say the same about MANY places.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clearly I can't see where you are coming from nor likely to. I have a fairly straightforward view on things in life: I enjoy something, I want to be involved...go and see it etc. If I don't like it, I don't. I don't like something and then demand it justifies itself to me...I like it and want to be there.

And part of the problem is the historical antipathy to International RL. It's not seen as something that we necessarily have to bother with as our club comes first. But I see no reason for not supporting both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could the RFL or whoever, get the information of season ticket holders at clubs? I know they'll already have the info for people who have bought event tickets before, but perhaps not the many more who are club members.

If they can't, I'd like to think they'd whisper in the ear of the clubs themselves to give their supporters a nudge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even though they have released tickets early, I still think the same supporters are being squeezed though, and it's been said before the other events may take a dip. I don't know how you get new people involved in this day and age, but I sure as hell hope the RFL get someone, and don't rely on us oranges for the juice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That doesn't mean it's a good idea to bang a top RL game there. You could say the same about MANY places.

Agreed - they were examples.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you not think there are grounds for optimism with this England team in the RLWC? As always your forwards will hold their own and your 3/4s will not be out of their depth this time around. It's pretty clear they have the ability to run in 3 tries against Australia or NZ. Sam Burgess, Tomkins, Hall - that's 3 marquis players right there, so no real reason not to be excited about what will be some really good games this autumn.

In other words if you can't get yourself enfused about the prospect of the best rugby players on the planet playing at the highest level the game has to offer what's the point in being a rugby league fan?

I was saying that Australia is the only real match of importance to British RL fans. NZ should be another but they don't seem to have wider appeal.

The fact that there is nobody else is a big part of the problem.

I still don't subscribe to blaming the fans, I think it's apathy and down to a lack of interest rather than any stubbornness or 'bad rugby league fans.'

Rugby League for me is a family thing and I go games with my brothers and nephews. Pretty much most of what we talk about is RL related, usually Widnes lol. In the last few years we've been a number of internationals against NZ and Australia.

The sad reality is that when it comes to France, Wales or other games we just don't chat about it and wouldn't consider going. We're not boycotting anything, we're just not enthused by the low-key internationals. Personally I don't enjoy one-sided games where the result isn't in doubt. I'll sometimes watch on TV (oddly in the hope that the opposition puts up a fight) but won't lose any sleep if I miss it.

I know I'll get slated but I think some on here would prefer to believe that RL fans are bitter and boycotting games rather than the reality that they just aren't interested. Look at Australia, it's no coincidence that we are not much of a draw there since we stopped being competitive. This despite historically large domestic and interstate attendances.

Like I said earlier, guilting fans into going will never work. You'll never get people to attend games if they don't genuinely want to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where I'm coming from is that simply saying "they should be coming" doesn't offer a solution to the problem. The reason it doesn't is because if it was that simple they'd be coming already!

Sometimes the problems aren't clear. The fact is you can't see them because you can't offer any other reasons.

You keep grouping RL fans together and expecting them to have the same reasons and motivations to watch international RL. This CLEARLY isn't the case. Club RL and international RL aren't the same thing. People that are motivated to watch club RL do not all watch it because they are fans of rugby league itself. That is a fact. They cannot be expected to want to watch international RL just because they have a passing interest ( or eveb a vested interest) in their club.

There is so much more to it than simply "you're a rugby league fan, you should be coming."

You really need to scratch further beneath the surface to understand people's behaviours. The reason you're struggling to do this is because you can't take your personal motivations for the game out of the equation and look at what others' may be.

People do not attend sports games simply because they like watching that sport. That again is another fact.

Spot on. It's a myth that there are swathes of fans that want to go that are not going because they are being stubborn or something.

I wonder what percentage of England RU or Football fans go out of loyalty to the sport. I suspect it is almost zero percent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spot on. It's a myth that there are swathes of fans that want to go that are not going because they are being stubborn or something.

I wonder what percentage of England RU or Football fans go out of loyalty to the sport. I suspect it is almost zero percent.

There's absolutely no myth about the poor crowds at international RL since almost forever. For the umpteenth time, its not about loyalty or being coerced into attending - its about enjoying RL and *wanting* to go. The crowds at club level in RU are not so different from RL so as to suggest the huge discrepancy that exists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clearly I can't see where you are coming from nor likely to. I have a fairly straightforward view on things in life: I enjoy something, I want to be involved...go and see it etc. If I don't like it, I don't.

And that's how most people feel. They like their club games, they go to them. They don't like the international games, they don't go.

You like rugby league, but you don't go to every game. There's a reason why you pick and choose the games you do.

I don't like something and then demand it justifies itself to me...I like it and want to be there.

If that part of the business wants to grow, it HAS to justify itself to a bigger customer base. THAT is the solution to growing the crowds.

Just complaining about people not supporting it isn't a solution and achieves absolutely nothing. It's completely pointless.

And part of the problem is the historical antipathy to International RL. It's not seen as something that we necessarily have to bother with as our club comes first. But I see no reason for not supporting both.

But there are reasons why someone else may not support both. Just because you have no reason doesn't mean there isn't one.

I go to as many internationals as I can afford to go to usually. I didn't go last year to the 3 Nations. I chose to play for my club instead. There's a problem that shouldn't be there right away. I had to choose between two rugby league related activities. I won't have been the only one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not pointless Wellsy, apathy in RL is a major issue. Call it what you want its still apathy.

Its not comparable with me because I believe in supporting the things I believe in and not asking why I should do so. I do this because its how I am. If I'm out of step with the rest of RL then so be it.

It still doesn't explain the historical attendances though does it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



Rugby League World - April 2017

League Express - Mon 10th April 2017