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LordCharles

Where is the actual proof?

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Let's be clear about one thing here, the Cumbria Men's League has come about by working with BOTH parties. BARLA have provided funding and support and the RFL development guys in Cumbria put in a hell of a lot of work in the background to make this possible, including getting the West Cumbrian and Barrow lads together in the first place.

This is a very good example of how both parties should be working together for the COMMUNITY CLUBS and not constantly trying to get one over on each other. Its early days yet, but the competition has been like a breath of fresh air in West Cumbria and I'm sure it is the same for Walney and Barrow Island. Nobody is kidding themselves thinking there won't be problems as the season progresses, but I'm sure any problems will be sorted amicably

I'm well aware of who is doing what in Cumbria (Watch your backs once you have a nice little feeder competition going for a Cumbrian Super League club, nice feeder league with dual reg players)

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I'm well aware of who is doing what in Cumbria (Watch your backs once you have a nice little feeder competition going for a Cumbrian Super League club, nice feeder league with dual reg players)

Oh one can only wish that we could ever get a Super League team in Cumbria! If there was even a remote possibility of that happening I don't think you would hear any discerning voices from this part of the country. You guys who have several Super League clubs on your doorstep have no idea what its like to live in an area starved of top level rugby league and the exposure that brings to the amateur game.

A trip to a Super League game is a minimum 2 hours trip to Wigan as they are the closest club to Cumbria!

The last time Workington Town had a successful run and had their one season in Super League I think the local CARL league had four divisions!!

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just out of interest Marauder, who is doing what in Cumbria? I'm intrigued now?

http://www.cumbriarugbyleague.co.uk/ There has also been plenty of info about this league in the League Weekly, League Express and BARLA website (noticed on the website that there is no provision for BARLA but links to the RFL & Pro clubs.

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http://www.cumbriarugbyleague.co.uk/ There has also been plenty of info about this league in the League Weekly, League Express and BARLA website (noticed on the website that there is no provision for BARLA but links to the RFL & Pro clubs.

Sorry mate but I'm struggling to make sense of what point you are trying to get across?

You have put a link to the cumbria rugby league website but where does it say who is running Cumbrian Rugby League?

To my knowledge the amateur game is ran entirley by the people who have ran it for years in both the North and South of the county?

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Sorry mate but I'm struggling to make sense of what point you are trying to get across?

You have put a link to the cumbria rugby league website but where does it say who is running Cumbrian Rugby League?

To my knowledge the amateur game is ran entirley by the people who have ran it for years in both the North and South of the county?

The only points I made after you asked the question who is doing what in Cumbrian was to mention the source I've used to track the league, I suppose what may have touched a nerve is the fact that the website seems to have airbrushed out anything BARLA, this seems strange seeing as they have put money into the competition.

 

Here goes with what I've found out but I do suspect you already know.

 

Yes the Cumbrians used the RFL resources, two paid RFL employees who now by the way, sit on the Cumbria Men's Amateur Rugby League committee as secretary and chair along with their volunteer colleagues.

 

For your information,  the West Cumbrians and the Barrow lads get together every year for the BARLA County Tri-Series and it is on these occasions where the two sides along with BARLA, commenced talks on uniting Cumbria in a league. 

 

Once the league was agreed and the final detail was being added, the RFL protested strongly at having the word amateur contained in the league's name, as Cumbria Men's Amateur Rugby League obviously wouldn't align correctly with; Northwest Men's League and Yorkshire Men's League. 

 

The RFL did also expect the Cumbrians to run their league under the proposed RFL operational rules which would then have allowed permit players to play in the league. Sadly for the RFL, the shrewd Cumbrians saw through that and politely declined.

 

This would have been nearly the final piece of the RFL permit player jigsaw with the introduction of permit players in the NCL imminent, this would have completed an outlet for all the pro clubs to play their surplus signings due to the lack of competition at this level; reserve grade, A teams, under 20's, call it what you want in the professional game.

 

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The only points I made after you asked the question who is doing what in Cumbrian was to mention the source I've used to track the league, I suppose what may have touched a nerve is the fact that the website seems to have airbrushed out anything BARLA, this seems strange seeing as they have put money into the competition.

 

The website I believe is ran by Alan Davidson/Anthony Atherton of the RFL as the league don't have the resources to run a website and keep it up to date and knowing them two guys there wont be anything untoward in the lack of a mention of BARLA as they are both honest genuine rugby league people

 

The administrators in Cumbria are making a great fist of reviving the open age scene in the county and everyone including the RFL and BARLA have played a key role in that process

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The website I believe is ran by Alan Davidson/Anthony Atherton of the RFL as the league don't have the resources to run a website and keep it up to date and knowing them two guys there wont be anything untoward in the lack of a mention of BARLA as they are both honest genuine rugby league people

 

The administrators in Cumbria are making a great fist of reviving the open age scene in the county and everyone including the RFL and BARLA have played a key role in that process

I know they have, but I'd be asking the question why BARLA do not get a mention on the website and as nice as they are you have to remember who their paymasters are. 

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Its an example of collaborative working, It is pretty obvious to all and sundry that BARLA have had a major role in the setting up of this league so whether a badge is on the website or not matters very little and you are making an issue out of nothing. The RFL are the NGB whether we like it or not, Ant and Daisy are in the mix helping up here and the relationship is working, much to your chagrin I believe.

Cumbria is governed by its own board of management and contrary to your beliefs Marauder, know their own minds and will not be rode rough shod over, which the RFL have already found out, we work with BARLA very closely, Mr Prior and Mr Fagge help us a great deal, the game has changed for better or worst but we will continue to do what we believe is right for players, the club and the game in Cumbria and always with the full backing of the clubs by presenting all facts, opinions and options to allow everyone to come to their own decisions be it Barla, RFL or our own way.

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The only points I made after you asked the question who is doing what in Cumbrian was to mention the source I've used to track the league, I suppose what may have touched a nerve is the fact that the website seems to have airbrushed out anything BARLA, this seems strange seeing as they have put money into the competition.

 

Here goes with what I've found out but I do suspect you already know.

 

Yes the Cumbrians used the RFL resources, two paid RFL employees who now by the way, sit on the Cumbria Men's Amateur Rugby League committee as secretary and chair along with their volunteer colleagues.

 

For your information,  the West Cumbrians and the Barrow lads get together every year for the BARLA County Tri-Series and it is on these occasions where the two sides along with BARLA, commenced talks on uniting Cumbria in a league. 

 

Once the league was agreed and the final detail was being added, the RFL protested strongly at having the word amateur contained in the league's name, as Cumbria Men's Amateur Rugby League obviously wouldn't align correctly with; Northwest Men's League and Yorkshire Men's League. 

 

The RFL did also expect the Cumbrians to run their league under the proposed RFL operational rules which would then have allowed permit players to play in the league. Sadly for the RFL, the shrewd Cumbrians saw through that and politely declined.

 

This would have been nearly the final piece of the RFL permit player jigsaw with the introduction of permit players in the NCL imminent, this would have completed an outlet for all the pro clubs to play their surplus signings due to the lack of competition at this level; reserve grade, A teams, under 20's, call it what you want in the professional game.

 

Can you confirm what evidence you have that this is imminent.

 

You seem to put sweeping statements adn im not sure how you can back these up you have no involvement with a NCL club and on a previous post congratualte the way the management run the competition.

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Can you confirm what evidence you have that this is imminent.

 

You seem to put sweeping statements adn im not sure how you can back these up you have no involvement with a NCL club and on a previous post congratualte the way the management run the competition.

The congratulations are aimed more on how it was run to get to where it is and at the moment IMO it is still being run very well but under a guidance.

 

Do you really have to have involvement with a NCL club to see and hear what the goal and role of the NCL under the RFL operational rules will be.

 

Did you take note of how dual reg was said to be going to be used before it was implemented and what is actually happening now?

 

I don't gamble, but I will have you a 0ne hundred pound bet that the RFL are trying to force (force may be a little strong) dual reg into the NCL, At the moment I'd say they are looking at ways and timing to implement it so a few people who have always been against permit/DR players in the NCL can save face.

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The congratulations are aimed more on how it was run to get to where it is and at the moment IMO it is still being run very well but under a guidance.

 

Do you really have to have involvement with a NCL club to see and hear what the goal and role of the NCL under the RFL operational rules will be.

 

Did you take note of how dual reg was said to be going to be used before it was implemented and what is actually happening now?

 

I don't gamble, but I will have you a 0ne hundred pound bet that the RFL are trying to force (force may be a little strong) dual reg into the NCL, At the moment I'd say they are looking at ways and timing to implement it so a few people who have always been against permit/DR players in the NCL can save face.

You may be right that the RFL want to implement dual reg but im also pretty sure the majority if not all clubs will vote against it.

 

That is the big point about the NCL its the clubs that decide and i cant see how they would see it as a good thing.

 

Personally i wouldnt have a problem if a lad went back to his orginal amateur club to play if he cant play in the professional team but would be totally against say one professional club having links with an amatuer one

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You may be right that the RFL want to implement dual reg but im also pretty sure the majority if not all clubs will vote against it.

 

That is the big point about the NCL its the clubs that decide and i cant see how they would see it as a good thing.

 

Personally i wouldnt have a problem if a lad went back to his orginal amateur club to play if he cant play in the professional team but would be totally against say one professional club having links with an amatuer one

The NCL do vote democratically on a agenda but the committee also give the clubs recommendations on how to vote and the NCL (Like it or not) now run under the RFL slightly adjusted operational rules so the chain of command and pyramid systems are in place even down to the building of elite junior teams, it's just the perks and timing that need to be sorted now.

 

I've been watching this development for a bit now because I was told by a very good source that the people on the top table of the NCL have always been against permit players,  like yourself I have no problems of a limited number (2) of permit players being at one club (When the regional clubs voted on ending permit players I think I was the only one who voted to keep them at the CMS Yorkshire meeting) but I don't like the idea of guys who play the game for a hobby having their noses pushed out for one or maybe two weeks so a pro can gain match fitness.

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The NCL do vote democratically on a agenda but the committee also give the clubs recommendations on how to vote and the NCL (Like it or not) now run under the RFL slightly adjusted operational rules so the chain of command and pyramid systems are in place even down to the building of elite junior teams, it's just the perks and timing that need to be sorted now.

 

I've been watching this development for a bit now because I was told by a very good source that the people on the top table of the NCL have always been against permit players,  like yourself I have no problems of a limited number (2) of permit players being at one club (When the regional clubs voted on ending permit players I think I was the only one who voted to keep them at the CMS Yorkshire meeting) but I don't like the idea of guys who play the game for a hobby having their noses pushed out for one or maybe two weeks so a pro can gain match fitness.

 A game wide review , following the Watkin's recommendations is virtually complete Marauder and is due to be presented to the three levels of RL within the next two weeks. The Community Board receive it on 7th May. It's top to bottom stuff and other threads on here have picked bits of it up.

 

At the end of the day we are one game or we try to run in three directions. The latter is a dead end, so we all have to  get in to the one bed but fight over the pillowcases and covers. Within that framework the NCL will continue to look after its members and especially the integrity of its competition. Dual reg and permit players will be part of that agenda in due course , and yes there have been discussions but the current suggestions from our part of Tier 3  ( ideas NOT policy ) are even tighter than you and Casyorkie have mentioned.

 

IF ( and I mean IF ) the NCL committee after due deliberation decide to make recommendations , it will still be a matter for the clubs  to make the final decision.

 

Some amateur leagues have already accepted dual reg etc .The NCL will take their own due process route.

 

And as for the  'RFL ' regulatory group , it in fact belongs to the Community game  - the base line rules from the very start have been taken from the NCL ones.......with Barla having a massive input at every meeting.          ;)

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It is tough, the integrity of the competition is of course paramount but at the same time rugby league (be that the RFL/Pro Clubs/Community game) has an obligation to look after the young lads in the professional game. Community clubs spend years developing players in order for them to hopefully reach there dreams of turning professional and making a living out of the game. Some of these lads are being left in no man's land by the current system.

Just an example. We have had a lad come to us a couple of months ago from Saints, he was signed about 2 years ago as an 18 year old, on an academy contract. He signed from Thatto Heath U18's (having played the majority of his junior rugby at Portico Vine) , having been in the scholarship/academy system at Saints for a long time. He began the season in Saints U19s academy set up, having turned 20 he was soon too old to play in the U19s, had nowhere to go on dual registration as the CC and CC1 clubs are (quite rightfully in my opinion) only looking to take players that are either established or or the fringes of the 1st team squad. This left him with the prospect of being left in limbo and sitting on the sidelines until in the end of his contract. Not being able to play the game he loves. The result he feels he has no option but to walk out on the contract and a guaranteed income just so he can carry on playing rugby league. I can't believe that he is the only player in this situation. He now has the opportunity to enjoy his rugby again but at the same time is out of pocket as a result. Surely this situation isn't right and some compromise needs to be reached to make sure lads don't feel like walking out on a contract or even walking away from the game altogether is the only way of ending these frustrations.

My personal solution would be to let the lads who are on part time academy/reserve contracts at Super League or Championship clubs to return to the community club from which they signed to play and get game time. If the player has appeared in Super League this should not be an option or if he has turned out on more than 4 occasions for a CC/CC1 club 1st grade then he should not be able to do it. The last thing the NCL wants is to become a dumping ground for teams in the pro game to put their unwanted/unfit players but at the same time there needs to be a solution for these lads that are being left high and dry by the current system.

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It is tough, the integrity of the competition is of course paramount but at the same time rugby league (be that the RFL/Pro Clubs/Community game) has an obligation to look after the young lads in the professional game. Community clubs spend years developing players in order for them to hopefully reach there dreams of turning professional and making a living out of the game. Some of these lads are being left in no man's land by the current system.

Just an example. We have had a lad come to us a couple of months ago from Saints, he was signed about 2 years ago as an 18 year old, on an academy contract. He signed from Thatto Heath U18's (having played the majority of his junior rugby at Portico Vine) , having been in the scholarship/academy system at Saints for a long time. He began the season in Saints U19s academy set up, having turned 20 he was soon too old to play in the U19s, had nowhere to go on dual registration as the CC and CC1 clubs are (quite rightfully in my opinion) only looking to take players that are either established or or the fringes of the 1st team squad. This left him with the prospect of being left in limbo and sitting on the sidelines until in the end of his contract. Not being able to play the game he loves. The result he feels he has no option but to walk out on the contract and a guaranteed income just so he can carry on playing rugby league. I can't believe that he is the only player in this situation. He now has the opportunity to enjoy his rugby again but at the same time is out of pocket as a result. Surely this situation isn't right and some compromise needs to be reached to make sure lads don't feel like walking out on a contract or even walking away from the game altogether is the only way of ending these frustrations.

My personal solution would be to let the lads who are on part time academy/reserve contracts at Super League or Championship clubs to return to the community club from which they signed to play and get game time. If the player has appeared in Super League this should not be an option or if he has turned out on more than 4 occasions for a CC/CC1 club 1st grade then he should not be able to do it. The last thing the NCL wants is to become a dumping ground for teams in the pro game to put their unwanted/unfit players but at the same time there needs to be a solution for these lads that are being left high and dry by the current system.

Yes it is tough Statman

 

 I have heard that Lee Radford turned out against St Pat's this weekend ( no complaints ) at the same time as the dad of a St Pat's 17 year old was tearing up his lad's so called part time pro contract with Wigan ( one game in 7 weeks ) so he could play the game he loves. Where is the logic in that ? These are not isolated incidents and we all I believe have a duty to look after our youngsters and keep them with us.

 

So there is a lot of thought being put into the issues of what is right for the NCL, its clubs and the kids our junior sides are producing.. As I have said - one bed - let's argue over the pillows.............

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Yes it is tough Statman

 

 I have heard that Lee Radford turned out against St Pat's this weekend ( no complaints ) at the same time as the dad of a St Pat's 17 year old was tearing up his lad's so called part time pro contract with Wigan ( one game in 7 weeks ) so he could play the game he loves. Where is the logic in that ? These are not isolated incidents and we all I believe have a duty to look after our youngsters and keep them with us.

 

So there is a lot of thought being put into the issues of what is right for the NCL, its clubs and the kids our junior sides are producing.. As I have said - one bed - let's argue over the pillows.............

Surely you have to be looking at why the RFL logic, planning and pyramids have prevented a 17 year-old the chance to play the game he loves once in seven weeks.

 

 I'd be taking a look at why a system which has serviced both the amateur and pro game for many years has started to fail once the RFL maneuvered themselves into a position of control.

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Booze up in a brewery , the game is being turned upside down on several fronts by people who are so arrogant and can not see the damage they are causing especially to the community game.

 

The main problem is we have put all our eggs in one basket as to the season we are playing our rugby , we had a perfect working aggreement with community / academy for our youth players now its in total chaos because of changes implemented by the RFL.

 

IMO dual registrations with come into the top tier of the amatuer game irrespective of wether the NCL management or clubs want it , the RFL will do like they already have in other areas , offer it to the NCL first and if they dont accept it the RFL will set up another league inviting clubs to apply with fringe benefits ,you can see it coming ,and one thing I have learned there is no loyalty in rugby league .

 

So lets say good bye to the community game as we know it the writing is on the wall.

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Booze up in a brewery , the game is being turned upside down on several fronts by people who are so arrogant and can not see the damage they are causing especially to the community game.

 

The main problem is we have put all our eggs in one basket as to the season we are playing our rugby , we had a perfect working aggreement with community / academy for our youth players now its in total chaos because of changes implemented by the RFL.

 

IMO dual registrations with come into the top tier of the amatuer game irrespective of wether the NCL management or clubs want it , the RFL will do like they already have in other areas , offer it to the NCL first and if they dont accept it the RFL will set up another league inviting clubs to apply with fringe benefits ,you can see it coming ,and one thing I have learned there is no loyalty in rugby league .

 

So lets say good bye to the community game as we know it the writing is on the wall.

I've been slated for a few years for saying it.

 

 The time is NEARLY right for BARLA to set up an alternative Conference based on what it was to catch the unwanted NCL clubs.

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Booze up in a brewery , the game is being turned upside down on several fronts by people who are so arrogant and can not see the damage they are causing especially to the community game.

 

The main problem is we have put all our eggs in one basket as to the season we are playing our rugby , we had a perfect working aggreement with community / academy for our youth players now its in total chaos because of changes implemented by the RFL.

 

IMO dual registrations with come into the top tier of the amatuer game irrespective of wether the NCL management or clubs want it , the RFL will do like they already have in other areas , offer it to the NCL first and if they dont accept it the RFL will set up another league inviting clubs to apply with fringe benefits ,you can see it coming ,and one thing I have learned there is no loyalty in rugby league .

 

So lets say good bye to the community game as we know it the writing is on the wall.

I believe there is a lot of loyalty within the NCL ,its the best run amatuer league in the country and i think most teams who play summer would love to be in it.You dont get many teams dropping out of the league by choice.

 

The rfl could offer lots of incentives but i think most teams would stick with the NCL as they would worry if it would be administed as well.

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I've been slated for a few years for saying it.

 

 The time is NEARLY right for BARLA to set up an alternative Conference based on what it was to catch the unwanted NCL clubs.

Youve beeen slated for years but it still hasnt happened, i agree things may be changing and these lads not getting games isnt right but i have full fiath the NCL clubs would vote no to full dual reg they may accept players going back to their orignial clubs ( i would like this)

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Thin end of the wedge.

Youve beeen slated for years but it still hasnt happened, i agree things may be changing and these lads not getting games isnt right but i have full fiath the NCL clubs would vote no to full dual reg they may accept players going back to their orignial clubs ( i would like this)

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You should set up your own organisation Marauder as you seem to know more about whats going on in the corridors of Red Hall and BARLA that the Regional Leagues Reps do.

I think that newly formed MARLA Yorkshire League would be a serious challenger to the RFL and NCL set-ups

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You should set up your own organisation Marauder as you seem to know more about whats going on in the corridors of Red Hall and BARLA that the Regional Leagues Reps do.

I think that newly formed MARLA Yorkshire League would be a serious challenger to the RFL and NCL set-ups

I don't need my own little empire, I'm happy to work with the one that I see has being democratic and has evolved via the system, the one that is run by people who love the game, have it at their heart and not in it just for the trappings.

 

If I do wrong I'll hold my hands up and admit it, I'll also try to put right any wrongs even if it was not intentional, I'll go out of my way and help others so by nature I don't need to be top dog.

 

But on the other hand my own league could be a threat to the RFL simply because I couldn't be bought off, bribed or blackmailed so maybe it would be a threat to the RFL.

 

 

[Whispering on} Do you want to be the Chairman {Whispering off}

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[Whispering on} Do you want to be the Chairman {Whispering off}

 

See now your getting the hang of it. Set someone else up as a front man to take all the flack while your the one really controlling things from behind the scenes at your new MARLA body without getting the flack.  :D

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