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Pottsy

Dr Koukash on FiveLive

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Youth development is the future for Rugby League. Kick out the imports over a 5 year period and spend that money on youth development. Ex NRL players are a huge drain on clubs resources with their wages and living accomodation costs.

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So we are all happy to move forward, with no real hope of raising the standard?

That's fine, but then we shouldn't all be bitching when we don't get the kind of coverage we "deserve".

If we are going to act like a tin-pot sport, which is happy to "level" a competition "up" to the level of the weakest participants, then we should not be surprised when we are treated like one.

Unambitious, flat-capism of the highest order. it's no wonder RU is cleaning our clock at every level.

Spending more money equates to increased media coverage? What nonsense.

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So, you can't prove it either? I'm sick of people claiming that, if there was no salary cap, there would be greater incidence of clubs going into liquidation.

No-one can prove that, and in the meantime we have become a backwater sport, with no international game, way behind virtually all other sport in the country.

Surely by the same logic you can't prove the SC is preventing other clubs falling into disarray or that it slowed the meltdown of clubs who did get into financial trouble either.

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You need to be able to attract the best young athletes to our game. You can't do that by offering them £50 a week, and a bag of chips after training on Thursday night.

Faced with the choice of a career in Football, Athletics, Rugby Union, etc or RL, which would you choose if you knew that your earning potential was forever going to be restricted.

We will NEVER attract the level of athlete required whilst we continue along the Northern Paupers Trail.

And if we have an open spend then there won't be as much need to attract as many top young athletes because there won't be many competitive clubs left.

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It hasn't done either of those things, but that's not a reason to scrap it. In fact, you could argue that without a cap in place the clubs who have gone bust would have done so quicker and with higher debts. Additionally, if you want to raise standards then throwing money at first teamers isn't the answer. If clubs have spare money then the way to raise standards is to invest it into youth programmes and facilities. That's how you raise standards, not by giving existing players a pay rise.

Now, are you going to answer my questions or just keep on deflecting ?

An oasis of common sense in Franksy's delusional desert.

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Like I have been saying. If you are happy to accept unmitigated mediocrity, then good luck to you.

If people are happy with the status quo, then great, just stop f***ing moaning about it.

You're the one moaning the most. Isn't cross league mediocrity better than a one horse race? Obviously we'd like to see standards lifted all round but until that happens we have to protect the clubs from themselves as much as we can.

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Would it be an absolute disaster if the SC was scrapped, or increased, and SL naturally declined to say, 10 clubs, because of it? No, not really. There would be a lot of wringing of hands, and gnashing of teeth, but nothing of any consequence, except perhaps a higher standard on the pitch, and a better sport all round.

That may be true but I highly doubt there'd be ten teams capable of freely matching the rest of the league's big spenders. We then return to a league vary similar in structure to the EPL where only a handful of clubs will ever win the league barring a multi billionaire coming out of the wood. We saw it in the eighties when Wigan signed all and sundry to maintain there annual pilgrimage to Wembley. A pilgrimage they had to make or they would suffer the financial consequences. Lo and behold they failed to make it to the Holy land every season (although they had a good tilt at it) and ended up selling off the family silver to pay the bills. A scenario we could well see repeated by other clubs if an open cap returns.

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So, RL is now the Nanny State of sports in the UK?

Just how well do you appreciate the UK Governments attempts to protect you from yourself?

Sport was meant to be enjoyed, not regulated. It has highs, and lows, and ups and downs.

That is, of course, unless your chosen sport is RL, where the sport is less important than ensuring that clubs that are adding nothing continue ad infinitum.

Would it be an absolute disaster if the SC was scrapped, or increased, and SL naturally declined to say, 10 clubs, because of it? No, not really. There would be a lot of wringing of hands, and gnashing of teeth, but nothing of any consequence, except perhaps a higher standard on the pitch, and a better sport all round.

Whilst the RFL continues to put the survival of sub-standard clubs before the good of the sport overall, RL is going nowhere.

Winning only means something if there is an actual competition with other teams who could put up a challenge. Otherwise you end up like Celtic with no meaningful games in your domestic competition. The only way they can grow is to leave the SPL.

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I am sure there is a point in there that you think is pertinent to SL, however, it's way beyond me.

Well if you can't see Sol's point there's no point in trying to debate it with you any longer. Au revoir.

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I am sure there is a point in there that you think is pertinent to SL, however, it's way beyond me.

It should be obvious that RL is much like the SPL. There are a couple of "big sides" and a few sides that might challenge them on the day and the rest that are nowhere near. No salary cap means hyping up Wigan vs Leeds as per the Glasgow derby because that's the only game that will have much meaning.

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Hanners is back then? Good stuff, welcome.

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We then return to a league vary similar in structure to the EPL where only a handful of clubs will ever win the league barring a multi billionaire coming out of the wood.

You mean carry on as we are now...

The only way we will ever see a current "minnow" at the top of our league as we used to do, i,.e Leigh, Featherstone, Halifax, Widnes , Hull KR , Hull FC all champions (some multiple) in the 20 years pre SL, will be with a scrapping of the cap...it is impossible with the current system...we are stuck in a never ending cycle where 4 or 5 clubs take turns to be champions at the moment...

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Do you really think that the likes of Coca-Cola will sit down and think "You know what, we really need to invest in that SL thing. It's a Marketing dream. They are doing everything they can to increase the position of the game both in the UK and internationally. That is a sport that deserves to rank much higher than the turgid thing that is RU, because they are interested in growth, and expansion"

No, they won't be thinking that at all. They will be thinking that they would never invest in such a risk averse, insular thinking, protective sport such as RL, and they would be right.

From the hip and fair play.

Rugby League needs something to sell and with the failure of Wales and the awful Exiles thing the only route is a second club in France for anything meaningful internationally.

For club rugby a league of clubs as strong as possible and the only way that will happen is the big getting bigger at the expense of the weak because fanbases and player bases aren't getting bigger nor is the money pot as you say.

You support 10 club 3x9 Superleague then? Would you name your clubs??

I suspect a drop to 12 is all that will happen, this seems favourite.

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The only way we will ever see a current "minnow" at the top of our league as we used to do, i,.e Leigh, Featherstone, Halifax, Widnes , Hull KR , Hull FC all champions (some multiple) in the 20 years pre SL, will be with a scrapping of the cap...it is impossible with the current system...we are stuck in a never ending cycle where 4 or 5 clubs take turns to be champions at the moment...

Fair point I would not argue with because it would be extremely exciting.

Who would flash the cash? Who would pull out with the cry "too rich for me".

Leeds would need to find a rich man to avoid being knocked off their perch big time....

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Again another SPOT ON POST i had dinner this week in Moscow with the EMEA (Europe Middle East and Africa) marketing director of one of the worlds leading brewing corporations,we touched on League he loves it would he spend money on it in the UK NO Australia YES he said the NRL and SOO was in his opinion the real deal but SL was still stuck in an M62 mentality and until there was a couple of bigger clubs outside the heartlands and in France there would be no interest.CM

Some good stuff as usual.

As the bottom end of SL disintegrates and the Championship becomes an "A" team league, and international RL is all about "The Exiles" it must be getting close to one last roll of the dice.

I think your ten club SL choice the other day is the only radical workable idea beyond drifting downwards.

Wether it will stop the drift is another matter......

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Really?

And in the last twenty years, how many teams have won the SPL? Two?

Compared with how many in SL? Leeds, Saints, Bradford, Wigan, with appearances in the final from Hull, Warrington.

But that isn't the point is it?

It's very much the point. It's the effect of the salary cap.

We have a similar, yet inferior sport, in RU, eating our lunch in almost every aspect of the game. How do we fight back? We put rules in place to ensure that the likes of Wakefield and Castleford continue to survive. How is this going to increase our potential? How is this going to attract attention, and the sponsorship that goes with it?

Do you really think that the likes of Coca-Cola will sit down and think "You know what, we really need to invest in that SL thing. It's a Marketing dream. They are doing everything they can to increase the position of the game both in the UK and internationally. That is a sport that deserves to rank much higher than the turgid thing that is RU, because they are interested in growth, and expansion"

No, they won't be thinking that at all. They will be thinking that they would never invest in such a risk averse, insular thinking, protective sport such as RL, and they would be right.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Coca-cola doesn't give a ###### whether there is a salary cap or not, they care about TV ratings and customer profile.

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You mean carry on as we are now...

The only way we will ever see a current "minnow" at the top of our league as we used to do, i,.e Leigh, Featherstone, Halifax, Widnes , Hull KR , Hull FC all champions (some multiple) in the 20 years pre SL, will be with a scrapping of the cap...it is impossible with the current system...we are stuck in a never ending cycle where 4 or 5 clubs take turns to be champions at the moment...

You'll certainly never see it with no salary cap. If you think Leigh can compete with Wigan then you are crazy.

The world has moved on. If you go back in time you'll see that soccer used to have small clubs winning stuff at the time when Fev and Leigh did. They have no salary cap but the same few clubs win everything. How did that happen?

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Spot on post my eldest son loves league prefers watching league however has managed to obtain a place at a top boarding school in Scotland with half his fees paid on his rugby abilities,Would he prefer to play league YES however even if he does not make it at least its a springboard for other things in his life. RL sadly cannot offer this he is now even thinking of trying for a place in 2 years time at an american university to play american football,i would love him to play league but what,s the point.CM

Up to you and him but daft to think that scrapping the cap would suddenly make RL into a sport that could afford to compete with rugby union let alone American football. We don't have a salary cap problem, we have a revenue problem.

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Up to you and him but daft to think that scrapping the cap would suddenly make RL into a sport that could afford to compete with rugby union let alone American football. We don't have a salary cap problem, we have a revenue problem.

I think we rather have a standards problem.

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I think we rather have a standards problem.

Or a reality problem.

Clubs can't spend money that they don't have.

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Or a reality problem.

Clubs can't spend money that they don't have.

Of course they can. We should be competing with the NRL and its multi-billion dollar TV sponsorship and usurping RU with their TV deals and massive underpinnings from Twickenham.

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Of course they can. We should be competing with the NRL and its multi-billion dollar TV sponsorship and usurping RU with their TV deals and massive underpinnings from Twickenham.

When they can compete with their revenues then they will be able to compete with their cheque books. Until then it's pure fantasy.

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Of course that is what they care about, and with an ageing demographic, and ultra-conservative management of the sport, we are never going to give the potential major sponsors what they want.

The game on the field never lacks excitement, but the product off the pitch is staid, boring and not able to generate the sort of ongoing interest required for it to ever be anything other than a village sport.

No money to spend, no players bought from other codes, no decent Australians coming over here any longer.

Keep it going Franksy - upsetting the Flat cappers brilliantly - encore.

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Of course that is what they care about, and with an ageing demographic, and ultra-conservative management of the sport, we are never going to give the potential major sponsors what they want.

The game on the field never lacks excitement, but the product off the pitch is staid, boring and not able to generate the sort of ongoing interest required for it to ever be anything other than a village sport.

No money to spend, no players bought from other codes, no decent Australians coming over here any longer.

All you are doing is writing wish lists of what we would all like to see. Not once have you offered any solution about how it is achievable. It's easy to say raise the salary cap but that creates many other practical difficulties which may be counter productive. Instead of stamping your feet and making pseudo-insults tell us how you get around the fact that raising the cap would only have any positive effect on maybe 5 clubs at the most ? How are you going to maintain the excitement on the field when some clubs have such a massive advantage ?

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