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Pottsy

Dr Koukash on FiveLive

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Keep it going Franksy - upsetting the Flat cappers brilliantly - encore.

Haha priceless, a Salford fan supporting calls for raising the cap now that they are nouveaux rich. I wonder if your attitude was the same when your club didn't have a pot to pi** in for the last few years ?

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Of course they can. We should be competing with the NRL and its multi-billion dollar TV sponsorship and usurping RU with their TV deals and massive underpinnings from Twickenham.

I'd like to think there's a tad of irony in this post. ;)

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All you are doing is writing wish lists of what we would all like to see. Not once have you offered any solution about how it is achievable. It's easy to say raise the salary cap but that creates many other practical difficulties which may be counter productive. Instead of stamping your feet and making pseudo-insults tell us how you get around the fact that raising the cap would only have any positive effect on maybe 5 clubs at the most ? How are you going to maintain the excitement on the field when some clubs have such a massive advantage ?

Very good.

The fact is the TV money is limited, the crowds limited, the sponsors limited and so the only variable is how much do the rich directors want to spend?

These are Davey, Moran, Lenegan, McManus, Caddick, O'Connor and that is about it, not sure of Pearson.

Caddick doesn't want to spend anything now. Lenegan, McManus and O'Connor have said that they want to see their clubs stand on their own two feet.

Mr. Moran has a record of spending a bit. It's Mrs. Davey with the main love for Fartown.

I really cannot see scrapping the cap has any enthusiasm amongst those who then will supposedly spend millions on top Aussies and RU players.

More like they'll create wage inflation and send more clubs bust....

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Let's assume the current crop of English players in the NRL went there/are staying there because the money is better, just for the sake of this debate. Are you saying our game would not be better for having the Burgess brothers, James Graham and Widdop playing in it?

Widdop did not move for a chance in the NRL, his family emigrated and he came through the juniors to the Storm.

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The Premier League has had how many winners over the last 20 years, and yet it is the most followed and admired sporting league in the world. Like I have said more than once, if you are happy for RL to be living in a bubble of its own making, and kidding itself that it is ever going to have anything but a low-level profile, then fine.

Maybe half a dozen different winners of the EPL in 20 years and no new winner this season either. Have you never heard of hype/spin/BS, call it what you will. The EPL is so avidly followed because it has the might of Sky throwing their full weight behind them. Why wouldn't Sky want to protect a massive investment? The EPL also have some of the world's best players due to the huge salaries available, not due to the opportunity to live in little old England. Like it or not RL is a filler sport for Sky and they pay the going rate and no more to allow the clubs to finance full time professionalism.

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If the RFL do the right thing and raise the cap then the caveat should be that the quota drops to 2 non European BORN players, then teams can sign some big names from the NRL without affecting development of homegrown players.

IMHO the salary cap is holding the game back. Rasing the base cap to £1.8m with the current extras will help the game to grow.

Also a rule where if a player pays into a pension then a % of the contribution should not count on the cap.

What big NRL names are you thinking about?

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Of course that is what they care about, and with an ageing demographic, and ultra-conservative management of the sport, we are never going to give the potential major sponsors what they want.

The game on the field never lacks excitement, but the product off the pitch is staid, boring and not able to generate the sort of ongoing interest required for it to ever be anything other than a village sport.

No money to spend, no players bought from other codes, no decent Australians coming over here any longer.

And what you don't seem to get is that the era of the salary cap reversed this trend. Attendances now are higher than they were back when Wigan won everything. Even Wigan have higher attendances.

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Keep it going Franksy - upsetting the Flat cappers brilliantly - encore.

Upsetting? Hardly.

But pushing pie-in-the-sky arguments doesn't do the game any good. His arguments are about as thought out as Parky's (no wonder he approves).

We already know what a game without a salary cap would look like. It was pre-1995 RL, dominated by one or two teams and with no money invested in facilities or youth academies.

Now if wanting growing attendances, youth academies, new stadiums etc makes me a "flatty" then I'll wear it with pride.

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I'm not insulting anyone. If you feel insulted, then that is your problem, not mine.

Open the sport back up, and let it be subject to all the competitive pressures of the real world.

The Premier League has had how many winners over the last 20 years, and yet it is the most followed and admired sporting league in the world. Like I have said more than once, if you are happy for RL to be living in a bubble of its own making, and kidding itself that it is ever going to have anything but a low-level profile, then fine.

Not true. The EPL has lost ground to the Champions League and it isn't as big as the NBA or NFL anyway.

Below the surface there are huge issues in the EPL. Teams below the elite few: ####, City, Liverpool, ###### and Chelski have a pretty bleak future.

It's only a matter of time before the EPL is replaced by the inevitable European Super League.

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You'll certainly never see it with no salary cap. If you think Leigh can compete with Wigan then you are crazy.

The world has moved on. If you go back in time you'll see that soccer used to have small clubs winning stuff at the time when Fev and Leigh did. They have no salary cap but the same few clubs win everything. How did that happen?

Of course the current Leigh coudn't compete...nobody with a firing neuron could suggest otherwise..

When the "small" clubs of now used to win things on a regular basis it was because a local businessman, or more normally a local group of businessmen (upto 9 or 10 on a board), had decided they were going to throw some money at their local club to enjoy a period of glory, however brief. This is, or was, the nature of professional sport, the opportunity to PAY good players to come and play for you. Not the best "business plan" and rarely economically sound, but the joy it brought to those clubs and communities is immeasurable. And it was , as it is now, the buinessmen who foot the bill..

This , as Dr Koukash is finding out, is impossible with current system, there is no incentive, aside from any prestige that may remain from been on board at a club, to get involved, no possible "return" (not financial) on your money.

To compare football finances with RL is ridiculous, we are not a billion pound industry as they are. But you will see from the history books that their game changed, many say not for the better, with the advent of Sky money the same as ours..

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Of course the current Leigh coudn't compete...nobody with a firing neuron could suggest otherwise..

When the "small" clubs of now used to win things on a regular basis it was because a local businessman, or more normally a local group of businessmen (upto 9 or 10 on a board), had decided they were going to throw some money at their local club to enjoy a period of glory, however brief. This is, or was, the nature of professional sport, the opportunity to PAY good players to come and play for you. Not the best "business plan" and rarely economically sound, but the joy it brought to those clubs and communities is immeasurable. And it was , as it is now, the buinessmen who foot the bill..

This , as Dr Koukash is finding out, is impossible with current system, there is no incentive, aside from any prestige that may remain from been on board at a club, to get involved, no possible "return" (not financial) on your money.

To compare football finances with RL is ridiculous, we are not a billion pound industry as they are. But you will see from the history books that their game changed, many say not for the better, with the advent of Sky money the same as ours..

Very good post enjoyed that.

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Upsetting? Hardly.

But pushing pie-in-the-sky arguments doesn't do the game any good. His arguments are about as thought out as Parky's (no wonder he approves).

We already know what a game without a salary cap would look like. It was pre-1995 RL, dominated by one or two teams and with no money invested in facilities or youth academies.

Now if wanting growing attendances, youth academies, new stadiums etc makes me a "flatty" then I'll wear it with pride.

The 25 years pre 95 saw 12 different champions, and that is including the Wigan Super team winning 7 on the bounce, so the actual evidence and facts are somewhat different to your assertion....

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Of course the current Leigh coudn't compete...nobody with a firing neuron could suggest otherwise..

When the "small" clubs of now used to win things on a regular basis it was because a local businessman, or more normally a local group of businessmen (upto 9 or 10 on a board), had decided they were going to throw some money at their local club to enjoy a period of glory, however brief. This is, or was, the nature of professional sport, the opportunity to PAY good players to come and play for you. Not the best "business plan" and rarely economically sound, but the joy it brought to those clubs and communities is immeasurable. And it was , as it is now, the buinessmen who foot the bill..

This , as Dr Koukash is finding out, is impossible with current system, there is no incentive, aside from any prestige that may remain from been on board at a club, to get involved, no possible "return" (not financial) on your money.

To compare football finances with RL is ridiculous, we are not a billion pound industry as they are. But you will see from the history books that their game changed, many say not for the better, with the advent of Sky money the same as ours..

There are no Jack Walkers in soccer either and that is because revenues have increased to the point that you need to be a billionaire to make any impact.

SL has grown to the extent that the amount of cash you'd need to give Leigh to buy WIgan's best players has increased. We're talking about full-time professionals with sponsorship deals now not blokes working at the mill who are paid a bit extra to train twice a week after work.

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The 25 years pre 95 saw 12 different champions, and that is including the Wigan Super team winning 7 on the bounce, so the actual evidence and facts are somewhat different to your assertion....

I note through the open window in your post Northern Sol still having a go at me.

Solly, get it through your head your on ignore, and grow up.

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Haha priceless, a Salford fan supporting calls for raising the cap now that they are nouveaux rich. I wonder if your attitude was the same when your club didn't have a pot to pi** in for the last few years ?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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The 25 years pre 95 saw 12 different champions, and that is including the Wigan Super team winning 7 on the bounce, so the actual evidence and facts are somewhat different to your assertion....

Oh yeah go back to the seventies to make a point.

Look at which sides were winning trophies in soccer in the 1970s. Now look at RL. Basically it was the same level of competitiveness.

Look at which sides were winning trophies in the late 80s and early 90s. Soccer was more competitive than RL.

Look at which sides were winning trophies since 1995. Soccer has got much, much worse and RL has improved.

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I note through the open window in your post Northern Sol still having a go at me.

Solly, get it through your head your on ignore, and grow up.

No, I will continue to expose your hypocrisy. You argue one thing and in the very next post you argue the complete opposite.

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I can not see how scrapping the cap will have the desired effect.

The game needs new management and marketing to try and improve the quality and investment from the Sponsors.

A few of the smaller teams may need to be shown the door to reduce the number of teams.

Hannibal has some good thoughts but without much evidence supporting those points.

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Now that's a ridiculous assertion.

If you think that the NBA, or the NFL, have anything like the global reach of the EPL, then you are talking out of the top of that flatty you wear with so much pride.

They have TV deals that are worth more than the EPL and pay their players more.

However, I don't see what, if anything, the evolution of a European Football League has to do with RL. Apart from, maybe, leaving our bunch of retiring conservatives even further behind in the sporting pecking order.

Evidently you don't but you go on about how the EPL is a success yet blind yourself to the reality that its biggest sides might well have gone elsewhere in 20 years' time and its "lesser sides" are falling behind badly. 5-0 seems to be a very common score these days, it certainly wasn't in 1995.

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There are no Jack Walkers in soccer either and that is because revenues have increased to the point that you need to be a billionaire to make any impact.

SL has grown to the extent that the amount of cash you'd need to give Leigh to buy WIgan's best players has increased. We're talking about full-time professionals with sponsorship deals now not blokes working at the mill who are paid a bit extra to train twice a week after work.

And there are thousands more millionaires in our RL cities nowadays and i would suggest that in comparison, RL wages have fallen in proportion to Football wages. I happen to know my own club have tried to entice several on board but because of the pointlessness and hopelessness of putting their money into RL under the current system they are happy to resist. At least with Association Football they perceive they can purchase a little "prestige" if nothing else..

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And there are thousands more millionaires in our RL cities nowadays and i would suggest that in comparison, RL wages have fallen in proportion to Football wages. I happen to know my own club have tried to entice several on board but because of the pointlessness and hopelessness of putting their money into RL under the current system they are happy to resist. At least with Association Football they perceive they can purchase a little "prestige" if nothing else..

Did you have much luck in the late 80s or early 90s either?

The thing is that the old communities that the smaller RL sides represented have gone. They still existed back in the days when Fev could go to Wembley with a side of locals.

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I happen to know my own club have tried to entice several on board but because of the pointlessness and hopelessness of putting their money into RL under the current system they are happy to resist.

That's a very interesting thought indeed, I don't mind rich men coming in iro RL n droves and trying to outspend each other.

But the key to this must be that they stand their own losses and don't sell the ground to get their money back when they are done??

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Did you have much luck in the late 80s or early 90s either?

The thing is that the old communities that the smaller RL sides represented have gone. They still existed back in the days when Fev could go to Wembley with a side of locals.

Yes , plenty, 3 league titles, 6 cups, numerous final and semi final appearances, the pleasure of watching genuine international players , etc etc, gone forever in the current system.....and as someone who has managed to stick with the game through thick and thin, the current four team league is getting a little stale to watch...

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That's a very interesting thought indeed, I don't mind rich men coming in iro RL n droves and trying to outspend each other.

But the key to this must be that they stand their own losses and don't sell the ground to get their money back when they are done??

As most do not own their ground anymore, thankfully, this is easily avoided....

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Haha priceless, a Salford fan supporting calls for raising the cap now that they are nouveaux rich. I wonder if your attitude was the same when your club didn't have a pot to pi** in for the last few years ?

It is the irony of Salford's 'ooh we have money' being unique to them. As has been previously stated, the game has more wealthy (truly wealthy, not local butchers, etc) benefactors than at anytime I can recall over the last thirty years.

As I have stated we are competing with sports that have sustainable business models through commercial revenue. If the cap has such a negative effect on the game, why is it used in the NRL and RU?

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