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29/03/13 - Wigan Warriors v St Helens - KO 12.15pm

Who will win?   16 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Wigan Warriors
      11
    • St Helens
      5
    • Draw
      0

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147 posts in this topic

Burn him! If only Trakl could compile a list of every offence against humanity committed by Sam. He'd have lasted 5 minutes when we could call upon proper Withchfinders.

If I see a full game in which no player comments to an opposition player when they makes a mistake, throws the ball away in anger on 2 occasions after being denied what would have been tries on other days, or berates one of his colleagues for making an error, I will give 1000 pounds to Joining Jack.

No need for that.

You need to stop being so defensive of Tomkins, all RL fans must love to see him perform like he can because he's such a gifted player, but surely most Wigan fans will agree there's a side to his game, i.e. petulance, that needs addressing.

And your last comment about giving a thousand pounds to such a worthy charity as "Joining Jack", when you're fairly certain you won't have to, is absolutely out of order.

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Sam is a relatively senior member of the team now. Junior players need his example, his experience and his reassurance.....if you're new/young and you make a mistake, all you should hear is "chin up lad, never mind"........they do not need him calling them a dickhead or whatever just because they happened to be in the way when he ran backwards.....

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Sam Tomkins is the player I most love to watch in Super League, but I didn't enjoy watching aspects of his performance today - the goading of Makinson after the latter had made a mistake (which Phil Clarke, to his credit, made mention of in the commentary), hurling the ball away in frustration and, worst of all, humiliating Ben Flower in such public fashion after a mix-up in which he must have played an equal part...

Tomkins looks to be playing injured (as did the admirable O'Loughlin today) and has yet to capture the heights of which he is capable, but if this is to be his last season in the game then I hope he's intent on leaving us with some better memories.

I hate seeing this from anybody, it's just classless. Jason Hooper used to do it fairly regularly, I seem to remember a young Bradford player taking half a swing at him for it and good enough for him.

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Burn him! If only Trakl could compile a list of every offence against humanity committed by Sam. He'd have lasted 5 minutes when we could call upon proper Withchfinders.

If I see a full game in which no player comments to an opposition player when they makes a mistake, throws the ball away in anger on 2 occasions after being denied what would have been tries on other days, or berates one of his colleagues for making an error, I will give 1000 pounds to Joining Jack.

"Burn him!... offence against humanity... Witchfinders..." is language somewhat more febrile than the one I used to express my disappointment with Tomkins today. I didn't like the exchange with Flower at all - it repelled me- partly because I'm not sure that the "error" belonged only to the Welshman and partly because it's just ugly to berate a team mate so ostentatiously in what we are often told is the ultimate team sport.

That's my sincerely expressed opinion about a player I have always professed to be my favourite among our competition. What's curious is that you write as if I have a record on this forum of singling out Tomkins for unfair criticism - I'd be happy for you to remind me and others of all those other occasions when this has happened?

Your reference to making a contribution to Joining Jack is not something I should comment upon...

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I don't really understand the points about Saints having no 1 6 and 7. Wilkins is your coach's choice of 7, who chose to let a 6 leave the club and pick your 1 at 6. Blame Brown.

It's Wilkin. Without an 's'. And I do blame Brown.

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Your reference to making a contribution to Joining Jack is not something I should comment upon...

Indeed.

However, EW is one of the more rational posters on here so perhaps, like me, his head was on fire when posting this afternoon.

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Although Smith was definitely off side, I'm not convinced what he did was in any way deliberate, of more specifically pre-meditated. It looked to me just like an automatic reaction.

but definitely stopped a try

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Although Smith was definitely off side, I'm not convinced what he did was in any way deliberate, of more specifically pre-meditated. It looked to me just like an automatic reaction.

It was clearly deliberate. He didn't kick it immediately - he knew he was offside, once he realised that Saints were approaching he kicked it.

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I didn't think you could be offside in the in goal area. Both Tomkins and Flower should have charged forward and jumped on the ball. Poor play.

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I didn't think you could be offside in the in goal area. Both Tomkins and Flower should have charged forward and jumped on the ball. Poor play.

You can't, but Smith was in the field of play.

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I didn't think you could be offside in the in goal area. Both Tomkins and Flower should have charged forward and jumped on the ball. Poor play.

Perhaps if Tomkins had been more concerned about where the ball was and less about shouting at Flower then they would have :lol:

Even if they had it would've been a Saints ball anyway so it made little difference in the end. Nevertheless it goes to show how these moments of petulance could potentially be costly...

All players, even those as gifted as Sam, have areas they can improve in and like it or not this remains one for him.

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i agree tomkins was out of order chances are if flowers isn't behind him tomkins ends up over the dead ball line, tomkins head is not right i think he is halfway to sarries.

also well said john wells, how could they give that try when they had just shown it didn't touch the ground? :wacko:

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I didn't think you could be offside in the in goal area. Both Tomkins and Flower should have charged forward and jumped on the ball. Poor play.

You can't be but Smith wasn't in the in goal

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I have no answer to the standoff situation, Gary Wheeler is perhaps the only natural fit for that role left in the squad.

Wasn't he the first of the senior squad to have a serious injury this year?

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Wasn't he the first of the senior squad to have a serious injury this year?

Yes. He ususally is.

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Wasn't he the first of the senior squad to have a serious injury this year?

Indeed, you have to wonder about his long term prospects given all the bad injuries he's sustained already, he can't seem to go more than a handful of games before something serious happens.

Isn't he off contract this year? I thought he'd probably be released but given that he's the only half we have left I'm not so sure now. The only really outstanding performance I can remember from him was the first half an hour of the Good Friday derby in 2011, until the seemingly inevitable happened.

His kicking game and organisational skills are both lacking too from what I've seen, he's more of an instinctive player with a good step and running game. Obviously that style can bring a lot of threat to the team and is absolutely fine as long as your halves partner is proficient enough in the other aspects to allow you to play like this, but there lies the problem.

Regardless, he has to be a better option at standoff than either Wellens or (probably) Hohaia, not so sure whether he's a better prospect than Gaskell though.

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Regardless, he has to be a better option at standoff than either Wellens or (probably) Hohaia, not so sure whether he's a better prospect than Gaskell though.

But I thought he was injured, hence asking. He would be a better option, but if he can't play there isn't the option, hence the situation now.

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But I thought he was injured, hence asking. He would be a better option, but if he can't play there isn't the option, hence the situation now.

Yep very true, at present the option isn't there :(

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Sorry if this has been already said but I wonder if the fair call for the Smith kick would have been a penalty try. After all it was a deliberate offence that prevented a try to be scored ( if I recall well, a Saints' player was about to reach the ball when Smith kicked it out of the field ). I assume League rules are not that different from Union in this regard.

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A penalty try and ten mins in the bin would have been the call for me. Doubt anyone could have much of an argument against that.

(And then again... :rolleyes: )

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Sorry if this has been already said but I wonder if the fair call for the Smith kick would have been a penalty try. After all it was a deliberate offence that prevented a try to be scored ( if I recall well, a Saints' player was about to reach the ball when Smith kicked it out of the field ). I assume League rules are not that different from Union in this regard.

Wasn't a penalty try as we weren't in the act of scoring.

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Wasn't a penalty try as we weren't in the act of scoring.

i thought that line you used relates to an eight point try.

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Wasn't a penalty try as we weren't in the act of scoring.

But I remember a penalty try awarded by the referee ( Ganson maybe ? ) to New Zealand against Australia in some final ( don't remember if World Cup or Four Nations ) when the man had been taken out without the ball, so he certainly wasn't "in the act of scoring".

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I could be mistaken, but I thought that for a penalty try to be given the only requirement was that the officials were as close to certain as possible that the try would have been scored if foul play hadn't taken place. I assume they weren't confident enough that the on rushing Saints players would definitely have beaten an onside Wigan defender to the ball.

There's no question that Smith should've got ten minutes, but I don't have any hard feelings towards him. I can't imagine many players would've just stood there and watched the try be scored.

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But I remember a penalty try awarded by the referee ( Ganson maybe ? ) to New Zealand against Australia in some final ( don't remember if World Cup or Four Nations ) when the man had been taken out without the ball, so he certainly wasn't "in the act of scoring".

As Dave T say the line in the act of scoring is for the eight point penalty try and is their to prevent players taking late cheap shots.

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