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hindle xiii

29/03/13 - Wigan Warriors v St Helens - KO 12.15pm

Who will win?   16 members have voted

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147 posts in this topic

i thought that line you used relates to an eight point try.

My bad. I read the post I was replying to as an eight point try.

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Just to be clear (it is good this!) Raynor in Tomkins 2011 was a penalty try, and Foster on Whitehead 2012 was an 8-point try.

I'm not entirely sure if these are true, but by starting my post in such manner means anything I write has to be true. FACT.

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A penalty try and ten mins in the bin would have been the call for me. Doubt anyone could have much of an argument against that.

(And then again... :rolleyes: )

You wouldn't have got one from me.

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I could be mistaken, but I thought that for a penalty try to be given the only requirement was that the officials were as close to certain as possible that the try would have been scored if foul play hadn't taken place. I assume they weren't confident enough that the on rushing Saints players would definitely have beaten an onside Wigan defender to the ball.

That's my point : there were no onside defenders a part from Tomkins and the other wiganer who were both behind the try line when the ball was touched, but they didn't move towards the ball and just watched the other wiganer kicking the ball. All the Wigan defenders who actually had the chance to reach the ball before the Saints' player were certainly off side, and they knew it.

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Is rule in the process of scoring,or just a try scoring opportunity in the ref's opinion?

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Is rule in the process of scoring,or just a try scoring opportunity in the ref's opinion?

it used to be if the ref was 100% certain a try would be scored. I think that has been softened now so its just if a ref feels a try would have been scored.

It really should have been a penalty try.

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Just to be clear (it is good this!) Raynor in Tomkins 2011 was a penalty try, and Foster on Whitehead 2012 was an 8-point try.

I'm not entirely sure if these are true, but by starting my post in such manner means anything I write has to be true. FACT.

Just to be clearer - Tomkins' was just a try. He grounded the ball. It really should have been an 8pt try.

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it used to be if the ref was 100% certain a try would be scored. I think that has been softened now so its just if a ref feels a try would have been scored.

It really should have been a penalty try.

If that's the rule then yes, penalty try in my opinion.

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Just to be clearer - Tomkins' was just a try. He grounded the ball. It really should have been an 8pt try.

But writing those two clichés means it's never wrong. :(

(Just watching it now)

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But writing those two clichés means it's never wrong. :(

(Just watching it now)

obviously you dobt have the power.

Already watched it for you :biggrin:

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obviously you dobt have the power.

Already watched it for you :D

Caught him a beauty didn't he... :ph34r:

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I certainly wouldn't have complained with an either / or scenario of penalty try or a sin bin for preventing a try scoring opportunity. Don't see how you could reasonably apply both punishments together though without it being disproportionate. Either the referee is content that Saints would've scored a try but for Smith and awards a penalty try resulting in no disadvantage to Saints, or the referee thinks there is reasonable doubt that a try would have been scored and therefore sin bins Smith for unfairly denying the opportunity. The only thing for certain is that the referee got it wrong in not applying either punishment, but I can understand why given he initially awarded a drop out due to incorrectly assuming that Smith was in the dead ball area where you cannot be offside.

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I certainly wouldn't have complained with an either / or scenario of penalty try or a sin bin for preventing a try scoring opportunity. Don't see how you could reasonably apply both punishments together though without it being disproportionate. Either the referee is content that Saints would've scored a try but for Smith and awards a penalty try resulting in no disadvantage to Saints, or the referee thinks there is reasonable doubt that a try would have been scored and therefore sin bins Smith for unfairly denying the opportunity. The only thing for certain is that the referee got it wrong in not applying either punishment, but I can understand why given he initially awarded a drop out due to incorrectly assuming that Smith was in the dead ball area where you cannot be offside.

Surely the two go hand in hand?

A professional foul takes place because, without it, Saints score, thereofre a penalty try can be the only decision. The perpetrator who commits said professional foul surely has to spend time in the bin.

Or have I misunderstood you?

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Surely the two go hand in hand?

A professional foul takes place because, without it, Saints score, thereofre a penalty try can be the only decision. The perpetrator who commits said professional foul surely has to spend time in the bin.

Or have I misunderstood you?

By that interpretation, every penalty try would be a sin bin which clearly isn't the case. I personally thought it was a professional foul and would've sin binned him, but wouldn't have given a penalty try. As it stands I personally think that where Saints didn't have possession during that play then there is too much subjectivity for a penalty try to be awarded. However if the referee had decided Saints would have scored and awarded a penalty try in my opinion there is no necessity to sin bin the player as well given the attacking side has lost no advantage from the unfair play. Such a course of action would have been at the refs discretion and a double punishment is not something I favour.

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Is being deliberately offside a sin-binning offence?

No but stopping a scoring opportunity by doing it is. In the same way that holding down isn't a sin binning but holding down after a break when a quick PTB would give a scoring chance is.

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Saints were awarded a try where the ball didn't touch the ground. Might be a worth a few posts.

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Deliberate offside is deliberate offside no matter where on the field it happens.

The sin binning isn't for off side though it would be for preventing a scoring opportunity. Not being a Wigan fan why would you care Hanners.

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Deliberate offside is deliberate offside no matter where on the field it happens.

simply not true.

Holding down is treated differently depending on position and context.

You are very very wrong.

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Who mentioned holding down?

Certainly not me.

i did, to demonstrate that rules are applied differently in different circumstances.

Can't you read?

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Is being deliberately offside a sin-binning offence?

He wasn't being deliberately off-side, he was caught off-side by the bounce of the ball.

Its hard to be deliberately off-side unless you hide somewhere.

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The sin binning isn't for off side though it would be for preventing a scoring opportunity. Not being a Wigan fan why would you care Hanners.

:O

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