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jamescolin

Leeds SL and management

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And you have evidence to back that up.

<sigh>

Yes - the evidence of my own eyes.

Are we arguing here ? If so, what exactly are we arguing about ? :blink:

Are you seriously suggesting that Leeds' off-the-field commercial activities are not a significant contribution to their overall profits ?

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Leeds make more money from corporate hospitality and retail than they do from tickets but that's hardly "middle class".

Just a reminder ......

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I've already stated that the majority of Leeds income is from off field activity,your original point was that most of that came from middle class supporters.

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OK - is that all ?

Maybe you're right - all those folk in the hospitality areas probably do come from Harehills and Beeston.

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OK - is that all ?

Maybe you're right - all those folk in the hospitality areas probably do come from Harehills and Beeston.

I suspect a lot of them aren't actually from Leeds but it's not hugely expensive.

Any way must dash,they've just brought out the prawn sandwiches.

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Leeds is a well organised club with corporate excellent hospitality, aimed at the business community at Friday night home games.

In a previous role, I regularly took clients there and Friday nights at Headingley v Bradford or Wigan for example were superbly organised in excellent facilities.

4 rooms full at up to £500 per table of 10 plus drinks bill.

15 /20 tables in Premier Suite alone at all home games.

Probably 300 /500 per game in varying levels of corporate package every game, generating significant income, with conference /meeting facilities used throughout the week.

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Exactly - haven't even touched on profits outside of matchdays.

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This is what I mean about having business sense. When I was an active member of our charity Steve Evans and I used to run a golf tournament at Pontefract Golf course. Entry £200 a team. Raffle tickets £10 each. Made an enormous profit for the Rovers charity. More thinking on those lines outside of the gate size are what's needed. There are thirteen games plus at home and 52 weeks in a year. Use all the year to generate brass. Rovers board and members do a great job long may it continue with more money raising ideas being implemented.

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This is what I mean about having business sense. When I was an active member of our charity Steve Evans and I used to run a golf tournament at Pontefract Golf course. Entry £200 a team. Raffle tickets £10 each. Made an enormous profit for the Rovers charity. More thinking on those lines outside of the gate size are what's needed. There are thirteen games plus at home and 52 weeks in a year. Use all the year to generate brass. Rovers board and members do a great job long may it continue with more money raising ideas being implemented.

Couldn't agree more. Leeds have more people to sell these things to. That's the advantage of being in a city.

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Also when leeds united nearly folded 10 years ago, Leeds rhinos gates went up as leeds utds went down, also rhinos gained sponsors that were also disillusioned, the city of Leeds have about 50,000 fans each weekend who want to actively watch a sports team, we in the Championship can't match that, I'm sorry to say

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I follow what you say Batley Bob and for the most part you are correct. Featherstone has about 15K population, but support comes from outlying areas and this must be cultivated. We have: Pontefract, Sharlston, Ackworth, Streethouse . Normanton, Knottingley, Ferrybridge, Selby, Womersley, Wombwell, etc to draw on and if marketed right we could get good crowds. in the old days we had supporters buses and special trains. Whilst we haven't got a big city some of these people live just as near as the outskirts of Leeds supporters do. I reckon with the right effort the smaller clubs could get outlying district supporting them. Down to effort and good business sense.

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I follow what you say Batley Bob and for the most part you are correct. Featherstone has about 15K population, but support comes from outlying areas and this must be cultivated. We have: Pontefract, Sharlston, Ackworth, Streethouse . Normanton, Knottingley, Ferrybridge, Selby, Womersley, Wombwell, etc to draw on and if marketed right we could get good crowds. in the old days we had supporters buses and special trains. Whilst we haven't got a big city some of these people live just as near as the outskirts of Leeds supporters do. I reckon with the right effort the smaller clubs could get outlying district supporting them. Down to effort and good business sense.

I agree col but the towns you have mentioned probably will be attracted to SL rugby in c@s or wakey at the minute. But what you say is bang on with the right marketing we could attract outsiders to come watch us especially those who don't follow a team.

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I follow what you say Batley Bob and for the most part you are correct. Featherstone has about 15K population, but support comes from outlying areas and this must be cultivated. We have: Pontefract, Sharlston, Ackworth, Streethouse . Normanton, Knottingley, Ferrybridge, Selby, Womersley, Wombwell, etc to draw on and if marketed right we could get good crowds. in the old days we had supporters buses and special trains. Whilst we haven't got a big city some of these people live just as near as the outskirts of Leeds supporters do. I reckon with the right effort the smaller clubs could get outlying district supporting them. Down to effort and good business sense.

Fev are situated better than Batley in that sense, as we are right in the middle of 4 super league sides with rhinos about 5 miles north , giants and bulls and wakey about 4 to 6 miles in various directions, encircling us all trying to gain fans from our area, then there's us, dewsbury and hunslet trying to pull the same fans

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I agree col but the towns you have mentioned probably will be attracted to SL rugby in c@s or wakey at the minute. But what you say is bang on with the right marketing we could attract outsiders to come watch us especially those who don't follow a team.

I follow what you say TG and I would make the point that some years ago when I was involved I did a membership and support analysis. You would be surprised at how much comes from out of town and not from Fev. Perhaps our marketing should start at Fev itself. I lived in Flamborough for a while (still got to home matches) and was disappointed how many people from Fev and district on match days were in the area in caravans. I don't know if an analysis has ever been done but quite a few of them I spoke to said they would go to matches if the games didn't intefere with their caravanning. They mostly went Friday night to Sunday afternoon. Does that make Thursday a good day? Of course there is shift work etc to take into consideration. One other way would be to get kids and women involved to the extent that the Rovers games would be first choice in summer weekends. But when you have paid your site fees you want to get full value for your money. So is mid week the answer to bigger gates.?

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I follow what you say TG and I would make the point that some years ago when I was involved I did a membership and support analysis. You would be surprised at how much comes from out of town and not from Fev. Perhaps our marketing should start at Fev itself. I lived in Flamborough for a while (still got to home matches) and was disappointed how many people from Fev and district on match days were in the area in caravans. I don't know if an analysis has ever been done but quite a few of them I spoke to said they would go to matches if the games didn't intefere with their caravanning. They mostly went Friday night to Sunday afternoon. Does that make Thursday a good day? Of course there is shift work etc to take into consideration. One other way would be to get kids and women involved to the extent that the Rovers games would be first choice in summer weekends. But when you have paid your site fees you want to get full value for your money. So is mid week the answer to bigger gates.?

To be honest col I don't know whether mid week games would be better or not. Going off the TV game crowds I would say not but who knows. To be honest col I can't believe how many people live in Fev and support c@s so we might be better recruiting new fans further a field than our home town of Fev.

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The success at Leeds was built on a strong commitment over years to Friday night games.

This connected to people who are already in Leeds for work. Add to that, finishing off a working week with a game, hospitality food and drink and the weekend then being free has been a real success.

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One of the most crucial elements to the Rhino's success commercially, which has been missed in your analysis is years upon years of winning trophies on the field. Yes they are a big city but I'd bet there are a number of Rhino's fans coming from Batley, Dewsbury, Featherstone, Bradford and everywhere else in the country. I know a couple of lads for instance that travel over from Telford to Rhino's games. I live in Wrexham, I still get the majority of the Batley games home and away (although the Thursday games are a no go, due to work). I often go to watch either St. Helens or Warrington for there Friday night games too if they are at home with a couple of mates from the Chester area.

The fact of the matter is, to a neutral fan, successful, winning teams are a far more attractive proposition than losing teams. Widnes is closer to Chester/Wrexham than either the Saint's or the Wire, Crusaders are even closer still, but they do not hold the same appeal to me as a neutral.

Despite a better class of player on show in terms of fitness and ability in the Friday games, to me, it's like going to the cinema. I enjoy going as a spectacle, yes I'm entertained, but no matter how much I watch them, I can't get as involved as a fan, or be as passionate about the outcome of the game as I do when watching the 'dogs. Purely because I haven't got the emotional attachment gained after watching Saints or Wire for 30 years.

Make no bones about it, the Rhino's success is in no small part to being involved in most of the finals, (world club, Grand and challenge cup finals) in the last decade. Look at Warrington's gates in recent years; they have rocketed due to success on the field, that is far more important than nice ground/environment to watch the game or anything else. I'm not talking about 1 or even 2 seasons success either, you need several years of it to build up so that supporter get passionate about it, like you guys are with Fev and I am with the 'dogs, that affinity doesn't happen over night.

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Don't know about years on years of winning trophies. Leeds were famous for being under-achievers not all that long ago but still dragged in crowds which were better than most. Actually winning championships is a relatively novel marketing idea for Leeds.

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I may be going too far back for some people but I remember when we won at Headingley and Steve Evans tore them to bits. They weren't always No1.Perhaps it is down to being a big city and having good marketing officials. I used to do a lot of marketing in my working days and found that it is not what you want to sell but what your potential custome wans to buy. Adapt the product accordingly. Before anybody says how can you adapt a game of rugby, I am referring to other interests that could be catered for in our ground and land.

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Don't know about years on years of winning trophies. Leeds were famous for being under-achievers not all that long ago but still dragged in crowds which were better than most. Actually winning championships is a relatively novel marketing idea for Leeds.

Leeds always had massive crowds, I used to watch them a bit with mates from work when I worked there from '78-2002. When our kid signed for them in '78 I was treated like royalty. The locals worshipped their players, I can remember loads of times when lads used to come back from their lunch hour proclaiming that such and such a player was having a pint in the Town Hall Tavern, I always used to reply that it was no big deal and you could often walk down Station Lane in Fev and bump into half a dozen internationals, even the odd Leeds player. My impression of them in the years before Super League, however, was that they had more money than sense, signing the best youngsters from Yorkshire and beyond, and ruining most of them. Only a few became permanent first-teamers, they couldn't keep their money in their pockets, and would often sign a plethora of leading 2nd division players that had worked their way up from the bottom. It didn't bother the directors though, they always had money to burn!

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Leeds always had massive crowds, I used to watch them a bit with mates from work when I worked there from '78-2002. When our kid signed for them in '78 I was treated like royalty. The locals worshipped their players, I can remember loads of times when lads used to come back from their lunch hour proclaiming that such and such a player was having a pint in the Town Hall Tavern, I always used to reply that it was no big deal and you could often walk down Station Lane in Fev and bump into half a dozen internationals, even the odd Leeds player. My impression of them in the years before Super League, however, was that they had more money than sense, signing the best youngsters from Yorkshire and beyond, and ruining most of them. Only a few became permanent first-teamers, they couldn't keep their money in their pockets, and would often sign a plethora of leading 2nd division players that had worked their way up from the bottom. It didn't bother the directors though, they always had money to burn!

i think sometimes they signed players just to stop them playing for other clubs

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i think sometimes they signed players just to stop them playing for other clubs

Wigan definitely did that in the period before $uperleague. It led to some rule changes.

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It would be fair if they reintroduced transfer fees. When a player has been given a good grounding and given experience by a club and his contract ends then there should be a compensation payment to the original club based on the number of years he has been with them when the big boys come to 'pinch' him. Either that or allow a clause in the original contract that the player can't leave without a payment being made for his services. I know the laws of the land forbid it under employent regulations but a bit of fairness would help clubs who in the past survived on transfer fees. Now they are just going down the drain.

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It would be fair if they reintroduced transfer fees. When a player has been given a good grounding and given experience by a club and his contract ends then there should be a compensation payment to the original club based on the number of years he has been with them when the big boys come to 'pinch' him. Either that or allow a clause in the original contract that the player can't leave without a payment being made for his services. I know the laws of the land forbid it under employent regulations but a bit of fairness would help clubs who in the past survived on transfer fees. Now they are just going down the drain.

It's what happens in every other trade. I'm not saying that's right but it's not just sport that's affected.

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