Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Duff Duff

Yorkshire v Lancashire instead of England v The Exiles

95 posts in this topic

I know Parky mentioned it earlier, but my preference for a two game series would be a first game of probables vs possibles, with the second game against the Exiles. It would have multiple benefits - firstly it would force McNamara to pick depth in all positions based on a 34 man squad, it would create better competition for places and it would motivate possibles to prove they are more deserving than the probables. Even excluding overseas additions I'd love to see the likes of the following positional match ups.

FB Tomkins v Lomax

WGs Hall / Charnley v Briscoe / Cockayne

C Watkins / Cudjoe v Atkins / Welham

SO Sinfield v Myler

SH Chase v Brough

P Crabtree / Mossop v Hill / Lynch

H Roby v McIlorum

SR Westwood / Hock v Farrell / Bateman

LF O'Loughlin v Ward

Plenty of others you could sub into most positions as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know Parky mentioned it earlier, but my preference for a two game series would be a first game of probables vs possibles, with the second game against the Exiles. It would have multiple benefits - firstly it would force McNamara to pick depth in all positions based on a 34 man squad, it would create better competition for places and it would motivate possibles to prove they are more deserving than the probables. Even excluding overseas additions I'd love to see the likes of the following positional match ups.

FB Tomkins v Lomax

WGs Hall / Charnley v Briscoe / Cockayne

C Watkins / Cudjoe v Atkins / Welham

SO Sinfield v Myler

SH Chase v Brough

P Crabtree / Mossop v Hill / Lynch

H Roby v McIlorum

SR Westwood / Hock v Farrell / Bateman

LF O'Loughlin v Ward

Plenty of others you could sub into most positions as well.

I can see the benefits of that as a coaching tool.

Would folk flock in to watch it ? Probably not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is one of the bugbears of being based in an AFL stronghold like Melbourne though and doesn't truly reflect on the of the viability club or the NRL in Melbourne. You really do have to take the background into account. I'll never forget when the NRL pulled the plug on Adelaide and they had been averaging around 15K at the Oval; I guess short termism isn't just a UK problem.

It wasn't that long ago that Melbourne nearly had the plug pulled. Crowds had dropped to around 8k and they were not doing well on the field.

The Storm are basically the Broncos if they'd dominated Super League. They do have the benefit of being full of Australians in an Australian country even of they are from NSW or QLD. You could argue that the Broncos and British RL have done a better job at actual expansion, ie getting locals to play the game and then in the squad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see the benefits of that as a coaching tool.

Would folk flock in to watch it ? Probably not.

I think this is key. We should probably give up trying to create a commercially successful origin series. The only realistic candidate is France but they are far from competitive.

We should use it as a competitive trial and I think the Exiles is the best for that. It allows England to at least try out patterns and get used to playing together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know Parky mentioned it earlier, but my preference for a two game series would be a first game of probables vs possibles, with the second game against the Exiles. It would have multiple benefits - firstly it would force McNamara to pick depth in all positions based on a 34 man squad, it would create better competition for places and it would motivate possibles to prove they are more deserving than the probables. Even excluding overseas additions I'd love to see the likes of the following positional match ups.

FB Tomkins v Lomax

WGs Hall / Charnley v Briscoe / Cockayne

C Watkins / Cudjoe v Atkins / Welham

SO Sinfield v Myler

SH Chase v Brough

P Crabtree / Mossop v Hill / Lynch

H Roby v McIlorum

SR Westwood / Hock v Farrell / Bateman

LF O'Loughlin v Ward

Plenty of others you could sub into most positions as well.

I have always thought this was an option worth exploring, not necessarily instead of the Exiles game, but as well as. The problem is that England do not get any games, outside of those against the Kangaroos and Kiwis, that really test them, or where they are put under serious pressure. Opinions are mixed about whether the Exiles do the job, but the event does give the England coach the opportunity to give his team a run out against the best non-English team available.

Who are the only other group of players available during the season likely to give England a game? Those who desperately want to take the places of the first team. I can think of no better motivation for players, other than playing for their nation, than to come up against the players that are standing in the way of them realising that ambition. If the second string, given a chance to shine against their equivalents in the first team, couldn't provide a decent test then I don't know who could.

It would almost certainly be more intense than a Lancashire v Yorkshire game. Imagine the coach of the 'Possibles' attempting to motivate his squad - he'd show each player a photo of his opposite number and tell him that this player is deemed to be better than you; go and prove to the world that he is not and take the shirt off him. Would it attract a crowd (would it matter?)? It would at first out of sheer curiosity; after that it would depend on the intensity. And who would the crowd shout for? Easy, the crowd would be English; they'd shout for the underdog! Put the established team under the pressure that they need to learn to deal with.

It's worth a shot!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see the benefits of that as a coaching tool.

Would folk flock in to watch it ? Probably not.

I think it's the only way to get a competitive fixture and assess the fringe players in a competitive environment. If marketed well as a trial, alongside a single Exiles fixture it could work. The Exiles didn't work as a two game series last year and it didn't see fans flocking to those either.

France would be my preference overall, but they are just not strong enough right now to provide the type of game an England side need.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an aside on the Probables v Possibles concept, I'd also like to think it could test the coaching acumen of a rival coach. I personally think the likes of Shaun Wane or Brian McDermott are more tactically astute and much better motivators than McNamara and therefore have a reasonable possibility of beating his first choice XIII with the second choice XIII. At least then we would know if McNamara was the right man for the job based on his selections and coaching ability without excuses. England need pressure to succeed and the coach shouldn't be immune from it either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you have to decide if you want a competitive preparation game enough to care about whether it makes money.

Nice if it does, obviously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you have to decide if you want a competitive preparation game enough to care about whether it makes money.

Nice if it does, obviously.

I'd say a competitive fixture should be a priority and is key to any potential success of the international team. Obviously if it makes money then all the better, but the Exiles concept has hardly been a runaway success in this context. The two game series last year was pointless, but assuming the Exiles concept is being kept and their are two dates in the calendar, maybe date one could be a double header for selections with an Exiles probables v possibles (including Welsh, Scottish, Irish and French) as the curtain raiser to the England Probables and Possibles. The first game could be a damp squib, but I'd certainly pay to watch two games at least one of which is guaranteed to be intense. The outcomes of the game would build up game two - England v Exiles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The trouble with Probables v Possibles is that one team is playing its reserve team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The trouble with Probables v Possibles is that one team is playing its reserve team.

No it's not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know Parky mentioned it earlier, but my preference for a two game series would be a first game of probables vs possibles, with the second game against the Exiles. It would have multiple benefits - firstly it would force McNamara to pick depth in all positions based on a 34 man squad, it would create better competition for places and it would motivate possibles to prove they are more deserving than the probables. Even excluding overseas additions I'd love to see the likes of the following positional match ups.

FB Tomkins v Lomax

WGs Hall / Charnley v Briscoe / Cockayne

C Watkins / Cudjoe v Atkins / Welham

SO Sinfield v Myler

SH Chase v Brough

P Crabtree / Mossop v Hill / Lynch

H Roby v McIlorum

SR Westwood / Hock v Farrell / Bateman

LF O'Loughlin v Ward

Plenty of others you could sub into most positions as well.

I've said before I think this has loads more mileage than the Exiles concept. Id like to see Macca pick 20/22 players. Then it could be done one of two ways either we appoint a coach who picks a side to play them. Or we do it the way the Aussies do the all star game and fans actually vote to pick say 13 players leaving a bit of space for the coach to pick the rest of the squad so he can put his stamp on it. All fans think they can pick a better side than McNamara so let them try. It also gives them a connection to the side. It would certainly make it easier for the coach to see who over stayed in the side and who was ready for a chance at international level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets have a Lancashire , Yorkshire and Cumbria tournament made up of Champioship Players instead of super league and show it on Premier Sports

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No it's not.

If it isn't, then there are some errors in the selection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it isn't, then there are some errors in the selection.

I was being pedantic.

It would be the Probables first team against the Possibles first team. No reserves in there. :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was being pedantic.

It would be the Probables first team against the Possibles first team. No reserves in there. :ph34r:

Ah. I see. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth where RL has little or no cash, needs a boost from meaningful internationals between sovereign countries and has a league structure with few gaps for additional fixtures none of these ideas will break even never mind make cash.

Can you see Wane/McDermott releasing Tomkins/Sinfield for a Probables/Possibles game played in front of a few thousand at Halifax - they'd get a slight strain that needed time to recuperate quicker than an RL fan can shout farce.

Sure the same candidates would be withdrawn from England v Celtic Tigers or England v France, but that would serve to make those games closer and MORE competitive. I would prefer to see regular mid-season games v Scotland, Ireland, France, Wales etc; (not all of them every season but enough to create a meaningful international programme). However I see the concern about a need for the England side to be challenged ahead of World Cups or 4 Nations and would advocate a short-term policy of the Celtic nations playing a mini-tournament then England (& France?) playing the Celtic Tigers. Regarding the French, we cannot bemoan their best youngsters getting tempted by union, then choose not to offer them internationals because they are not good enough at present.

The suggestion about a County based comp below SL level is a reasonable one - but it would have to be something manageable and attention grabbing.

How about;

Cumbria, South Yorks, North Yorks & Northumbria, West Yorks, Lancashire, Wales, Southern England and Midlands (could add Scotland or Ireland to this in future as a development tool)

9's competition played over a Bank Holiday weekend - possibly tied in with NRC final or similar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets have a Lancashire , Yorkshire and Cumbria tournament made up of Champioship Players instead of super league and show it on Premier Sports

I think that is a decent idea. Would an Other Counties team work, given that it would mainly be made up of Champ 1 players?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if the celtic tigers where given test status,like GB would be, then the clubs would be bound by RLIF law to release players for a game against england and vice versa......likewise for a games against france....

the clubs don't have to release player for a game against the exiles though...cos the exiles are'nt a test nation..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets have a Lancashire , Yorkshire and Cumbria tournament made up of Champioship Players instead of super league and show it on Premier Sports

I'd like Championship players to have a shot at the rep game. I'd like to see an England Championship side compete with Wales, Scotland and Ireland in the autumn.

The problem with a county championship would be fitting it in. Plus it doesn't shake off the Northern stereotype.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



Rugby League World - June 2017

League Express - Mon 17th July 2017