Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

hindle xiii

01/04/13 - Hull Kingston Rovers v Wigan Warriors - KO 3pm

Who will win?   10 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Hull Kingston Rovers
      0
    • Wigan Warriors
      9
    • Draw
      1

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

190 posts in this topic

What do you mean by depth though? Today Saints were missing Meli (rested), Lomax (injured), Roby (injured), Hohaia (injured), Gardner (injured), Wheeler (always injured) and Tony Puletua (injured). Bar Tommy Makinson, who is 22 now I think, and Stu Howarth who was Salford's third choice hooker, all our stand-ins were 19 year olds, and we had a 33 year old fullback playing at stand off! So do we have squad depth? I wouldn't have thought so. It's just that we play our young players when our seniors are injured. We have now played 31 different players this season and our sixth young gun got his debut today. Maybe if Hull KR had previously not focused so much on recruiting antipodeans but instead had given more opportunities to their under 20s when they had one they wouldn't have been on the receiving end of an 84 point thumping but instead would have had enough young players with some experience knocking about on dual registrations or whatever to fill in the gaps.

The fact that clubs such as Saints are able to hold on to those young players makes a difference Teams like Salford lost all these players when the under 21 academy was disbanded. We have just resigned one of those who played today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact that clubs such as Saints are able to hold on to those young players makes a difference Teams like Salford lost all these players when the under 21 academy was disbanded. We have just resigned one of those who played today.

And what was Salfords's problem, the money ran out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And what was Salfords's problem, the money ran out.

Yes. But that is a very simplistic analysis of the problems at Salford. Lack of investment led to a culture of "second best is good enough" which lasted for thirty-odd years. This meant that income fell well short of what was needed which meant there was less money for investment, etc.

But yes. Effectively, "the money ran out."

It's that old hobby-horse of ours: marketing. Without it, we'll go nowhere. And that applies to Salford as a club and the game as a whole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about this as an idea? To eliminate all this unfairness where the better teams..er...do better, all games are declared a draw, no matter what the actual score. That way, those clubs that have the temerity to be better than others will be taught a lesson they'll never forget.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. But that is a very simplistic analysis of the problems at Salford. Lack of investment led to a culture of "second best is good enough" which lasted for thirty-odd years. This meant that income fell well short of what was needed which meant there was less money for investment, etc.

But yes. Effectively, "the money ran out."

It's that old hobby-horse of ours: marketing. Without it, we'll go nowhere. And that applies to Salford as a club and the game as a whole.

The money runs out because the investment is in players wages and not in infrastructure to develop the club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe 13 of the SL clubs have all had a little extra cash this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So were Wigan any good then today?

YES!

Wigan are the perfect team to beat us, have said this for quite a while. The 3rd pass play out the back to Tomkins with 2 players on his outside and the option to go himself rips us apart time and time again. No other team in the league runs this play better and we cannot defend it. A few times today we did, so on the next play Wigan would just shift it across to the other side and it would work at that side.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our biggest problem is the culture of the club. And this is set by the coach, Sandercock maybe very good at one on one stuff improving players but he cannot instill the attitude and desire needed.

I will use Wigan as the example. Everytime anyone asks Wane about injuries he says it doesn't matter, he expects his young players to do the job, no excuses allowed. Fixtures piling up no moaning "get out and win" I can almost hear him say it. Our caoch the week before the Easter period is moaning about the number of games. As soon as the players hear this they knew they had a get out of jail free card for todays game as long as they beat FC on friday.

The stupid part of this is that I expect we will go and beat Saints next week now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

YES!

Wigan are the perfect team to beat us, have said this for quite a while. The 3rd pass play out the back to Tomkins with 2 players on his outside and the option to go himself rips us apart time and time again. No other team in the league runs this play better and we cannot defend it. A few times today we did, so on the next play Wigan would just shift it across to the other side and it would work at that side.

I've just emailed this reply to petergentle@cluelessattackingplay.com.

:(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As soon as the players hear this they knew they had a get out of jail free card for todays game as long as they beat FC on friday.

I rather think this is instilled by Hudgell.

And I think you probably do too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Taylor's contract is up he's obviously free to negotiate with anyone. If Rovers had cap space and were to offer him an increased salary but he still wanted to leave, one option would be a "sign and trade" with another team happy to match this new salary, eg Rovers offer him £80K a year, Wigan offer him the same and then agree to trade with Rovers for player or players under contract earning the same salary, which may, for the sake of argument, be O'Loughlin and Goulding. Possibly not but then I just plucked those names from thin air. But you get the drift.

The point is that players are either moving in free agency or being traded under contract. So no team can be asset stripped or bail on their fans to save a few quid.

The problems with this are endless. What if your player wants to leave but none of the players offered as trade are suitable to the players club. Or the player that is suitable doesn't want to go. What if Wigan offer you Sam Tomkins and Saints offer you Lance hohia but the player wants to go to Saints. What if the buying club want to give the player a wage rise. How long before a player took a club to court for restraint of trade.

We talk about rewarding clubs for developing young players then as soon as some teams start seeing a benefit from it we want the rules changing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So let me get this straight...

It's not fair that Wigan are allowed to buy player from other clubs? It's not fair that Hull KR chose to sell two players? And Salford chose to sell one?

It's fair that clubs would be forced to keep players that don't want to be there? Or that they can't afford?

It's fair to force players to play for clubs they don't want to be at?

It's fair to prevent Wigan from signing anyone at all (a whole 4 players in the off season) despite losing a considerable chunk from their squad? It's fair to make them bring through loads of youth in their own whilst other clubs choose not to?

DKS, Your whole argument doesn't seem to be talking about what is fair. It seems to be talking about handicapping the large clubs to help the weak ones. That's not proactive. How about we address the problems at the weak clubs and get them up to where the strong ones are instead of the other way around?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When sandercock run the white flag up before the game with his comments. That was the green light for the Robins players to take it easy and not have a b######ing from the coach after the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When sandercock run the white flag up before the game with his comments. That was the green light for the Robins players to take it easy and not have a b######ing from the coach after the game.

Exactly.

Got his excuses in early. The players knew they didn't have to turn up today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

YES!

Wigan are the perfect team to beat us, have said this for quite a while. The 3rd pass play out the back to Tomkins with 2 players on his outside and the option to go himself rips us apart time and time again. No other team in the league runs this play better and we cannot defend it. A few times today we did, so on the next play Wigan would just shift it across to the other side and it would work at that side.

Thanks - couldn't make it yesterday. The Tomkins 3rd pass play has been lethal all year. Its the number of options that it creates and now that Smith / Green are also starting to use Tomkins as a decoy and play short balls to dummy runners on occasion it is just confusing defences as they can't just ignore Tomkins. Although it is extremely disappointing for Hull KR to concede so many, it shouldn't be forgotten that Wigan were also breaking Saints at will on Friday and could've been 30+ up at half time if they had been more clinical. Same with Widnes and Catalan before them. The combination of Smith, Green and Tomkins is really coming together now and with the young forwards stepping up this season is exceeding my expectations. Credit must go to Wane, Harris and Deacon - it obviously pays to have some of the most intelligent halfbacks of their generation in the coaching team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks - couldn't make it yesterday. The Tomkins 3rd pass play has been lethal all year. Its the number of options that it creates and now that Smith / Green are also starting to use Tomkins as a decoy and play short balls to dummy runners on occasion it is just confusing defences as they can't just ignore Tomkins. Although it is extremely disappointing for Hull KR to concede so many, it shouldn't be forgotten that Wigan were also breaking Saints at will on Friday and could've been 30+ up at half time if they had been more clinical. Same with Widnes and Catalan before them. The combination of Smith, Green and Tomkins is really coming together now and with the young forwards stepping up this season is exceeding my expectations. Credit must go to Wane, Harris and Deacon - it obviously pays to have some of the most intelligent halfbacks of their generation in the coaching team.

Rovers will go on to fight another day! As for the Friday game, the Saints also fluffed chances in the first period. That said, Wigan did make much headway down the middle. As always, the acid test is the Grand Final, which has witnessed Leeds dominate over recent years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rovers will go on to fight another day! As for the Friday game, the Saints also fluffed chances in the first period. That said, Wigan did make much headway down the middle. As always, the acid test is the Grand Final, which has witnessed Leeds dominate over recent years.

Don't forget 2010 Ray :-)

Not getting carried away by any means at this stage, just content that Wigan are much better than expected. Keeping Tomkins fit is the challenge as our record without him is dreadful and his absence cost us against Leeds in the playoffs last years as well as at Headingley a few weeks back. Even when he is not playing well, his presence alone causes defences to make wrong decisions to account for his ability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are far worse grounds in SL esp now that Craven Park has a new stand. Ever been to Odsal, Cas or Wakefield?

Yes have been to Cas, Wakey and Craven Park (not Odsal yet). Craven Park is by far the worst of those 3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes have been to Cas, Wakey and Craven Park (not Odsal yet). Craven Park is by far the worst of those 3.

See you didn't bother answering my points as usual. Go and take your drivel somewhere else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get back to supporting your team that has produced no juniors that have played for Australia and have massive financial difficulties. They have contributed nothing to the NRL and should be thrown out.

Now why don't you take your drivel back where it came from.

We don't have financial difficulties. We did in the past, but our new ownership quartet took over the club last year and the results are showing. No debt, no financial concerns and we've won 3/4 including beating Manly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes have been to Cas, Wakey and Craven Park (not Odsal yet). Craven Park is by far the worst of those 3.

It wont be the worst after the new stand is built

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't have financial difficulties. We did in the past, but our new ownership quartet took over the club last year and the results are showing. No debt, no financial concerns and we've won 3/4 including beating Manly.

Well from what I read I would disagree.

No answer on the juniors I see, the team you have "bought in" have managed to win some games this year. When you start producing your own kids then you can come back and crow that we don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to say, I was rather underwhelmed when the signing of Green and Smith was announced, considering whose boots they had to fill. It's nice being wrong sometimes. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate your list, I just don't think a number of them are from Wakefield and district junior ARL, and a couple may not be top 25 at their clubs??

I made it that there's as many Hull born and bred lads in the Hull 25 as in the HKR 25 so I have no qualms about Rovers imports. Good luck to them all clubs do it.

If I made a list of players who are born n bred under a WF postcode it would run to three pages

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few things strike me:

- the main factor was Sandercock putting up the white flag last week. You should never give people an excuse to clock off. I suspect it affected the crowd numbers and the atmosphere as well;

- other teams will be beaten by a lot by this Wigan team. Our combinations and backs are so good now we have 2 passing and running halves we are a nightmare to play against;

- most teams have a limited number of stars on whom they rely. Wigan are a different team without Tomkins. Taking the 3 key men out of HKR was always going to make life very difficult for them. Put those 3 back in and they'll be a strong team again;

- I hesitate to write this but the reason Taylor is only now starting games is because he was not as fit as the rest of the squad when he joined. Leaving aside recruitment, that is something HKR can improve themselves. Indeed that is down to their coaching staff;

- I am excited about this year, and think the lls is again a possibility for us. Like the Japanese soldier in the jungle I continue to consider that to be a prize worth winning, though clearly the third of the 3 on offer; and

- to win anything more, we'd have to beat Leeds. We have shown at Wembley and in the play offs that we can do so, but they remain the benchmark. Their win last night was an ominous example of their ability to absorb and adapt to adversity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.