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hindle xiii

01/04/13 - Hull Kingston Rovers v Wigan Warriors - KO 3pm

Who will win?   10 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Hull Kingston Rovers
      0
    • Wigan Warriors
      9
    • Draw
      1

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190 posts in this topic

A few things strike me:

- the main factor was Sandercock putting up the white flag last week. You should never give people an excuse to clock off. I suspect it affected the crowd numbers and the atmosphere as well;

- other teams will be beaten by a lot by this Wigan team. Our combinations and backs are so good now we have 2 passing and running halves we are a nightmare to play against;

- most teams have a limited number of stars on whom they rely. Wigan are a different team without Tomkins. Taking the 3 key men out of HKR was always going to make life very difficult for them. Put those 3 back in and they'll be a strong team again;

- I hesitate to write this but the reason Taylor is only now starting games is because he was not as fit as the rest of the squad when he joined. Leaving aside recruitment, that is something HKR can improve themselves. Indeed that is down to their coaching staff;

- I am excited about this year, and think the lls is again a possibility for us. Like the Japanese soldier in the jungle I continue to consider that to be a prize worth winning, though clearly the third of the 3 on offer; and

- to win anything more, we'd have to beat Leeds. We have shown at Wembley and in the play offs that we can do so, but they remain the benchmark. Their win last night was an ominous example of their ability to absorb and adapt to adversity.

Absolutely spot on, although 3 men still would not have stopped the score yesterday. As you point out we are no were near fit enough when compared to Wigan. We need a new fitness coach and a new attitude.

And good luck to you in chasing the LLS it is a very worthy thing to strive for, finishing at the top of the table after you have played every other team deserves praise.

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No clear off :D

I dare not read this thread so I might have to do that!

Tell you what, this result highlights an issue Hull as a city has. We need to determine why Wigan are about to field a side with majority local lads like they did yesterday and why the standard is a lot higher than our local lads. What are they doing differently? Why are we classing Hull as a hot bed of Rugby League when we are not producing local lads to the standard of Wigan.

This needs to be addressed and researched for me.

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Nobody going to praise Wigan? I think some people need to focus on what a terrific job Shaun Wane has done. If you look at Wigans team there isn't any huge names apart from Tomkins O Loughlin and Richards. The pack is very young and Wigan deserve a lot of credit for what they are doing with such a young squad.

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I dare not read this thread so I might have to do that!

Tell you what, this result highlights an issue Hull as a city has. We need to determine why Wigan are about to field a side with majority local lads like they did yesterday and why the standard is a lot higher than our local lads. What are they doing differently? Why are we classing Hull as a hot bed of Rugby League when we are not producing local lads to the standard of Wigan.

This needs to be addressed and researched for me.

I think we have to admit in Hull we are still light years behind the likes of Wigan and Leeds in the youth department. I can only speak for Hull FC as I do go and watch the academy teams regular with my nephew playing in the 16's and now the 19's. I do have to say that there has been a dramatic improvement over the last couple of years at FC but we are only starting to do now what as I mentioned Wigan and Leeds were doing years ago. I reckon its going to take at least 5 years to get to anywhere near the level they are. There are glimpses of it working with Tom Lineham and yesterday Jamie Shaul coming through, most of the 19's are between the ages of 16 and 19 as I think the club wants to get them use to a certain level over a longer period.

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Jamie Shaul played in my brother's age group at junior level. Maybe his example of a 'later developer' (so to speak) can be used to look at how we have set up the junior ranks.

And to appease barrowraiderskid Wigan were bloody marvellous ;)

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Wigan have a fairly simple recipe for success. They coach and train their payers as a complete squad. Therefore the lower level, fringe players work to exactly the same game plans as the senior squad and can swap in and out relatively seamlessly. They also pay attention to detail in their preparation. This includes all aspects of the players perpetration from diet, conditioning and developing individual training plans. They are also very fit as a team and individuals (from what I’ve seen something all the top teams seem to be). Physical fitness more often than not will translate to mental toughness in a game when the chips are down (see Leeds effort against Cats for example).

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Don't forget 2010 Ray :-)

Not getting carried away by any means at this stage, just content that Wigan are much better than expected. Keeping Tomkins fit is the challenge as our record without him is dreadful and his absence cost us against Leeds in the playoffs last years as well as at Headingley a few weeks back. Even when he is not playing well, his presence alone causes defences to make wrong decisions to account for his ability.

Not at all Gareth, but It was long overdue for a club of Wigan's standing. I've read on here why Wigan are successful, but how do you measure success? Is it marketing and attendances (which Wigan are excellent at), an impressive youth policy, (again Wigan lead the way), or trophies?

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Nobody going to praise Wigan? I think some people need to focus on what a terrific job Shaun Wane has done. If you look at Wigans team there isn't any huge names apart from Tomkins O Loughlin and Richards. The pack is very young and Wigan deserve a lot of credit for what they are doing with such a young squad.

I gave credit to Wigan and to Wane. I love his attitude and mentality. No excuses.

Our game is one of physical contact, aggression, skill, honesty and mental strength. Wane brings at least 4 of these components to the table and he has 2 assistant coaches who are 2 of the best half backs this country has seen in the last 20 years. Between them they are a great package. I would love a coach like him at my club.

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Not at all Gareth, but It was long overdue for a club of Wigan's standing. I've read on here why Wigan are successful, but how do you measure success? Is it marketing and attendances (which Wigan are excellent at), an impressive youth policy, (again Wigan lead the way), or trophies?

I don't think you'd get an argument from me that Leeds are the most successful side at the moment, given trophies are the benchmark. However Wigan and Warrington have still taken a reasonable share over the last three / four years and the former certainly rival Leeds on every other measure since Lenegan took over.

I'm not greedy or naive enough to expect the kind of success that Wigan enjoyed from the late 80s and 90s. Circumstances suggest that such a level of one team dominance in all major competitions is no longer achievable. I'm just happy that the club is now well managed, financially stable, marketed effectively and has a team to be proud of with a decent proportion of home grown players utilising the type of rugby that is a joy to watch. People on this forum might think the SL is in decline, but from a one club perspective the future hasn't looked brighter for Wigan in the SL era. However I'll reserve the right to change this view if / when Tomkins leaves in the Autumn.

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I dare not read this thread so I might have to do that!

Tell you what, this result highlights an issue Hull as a city has. We need to determine why Wigan are about to field a side with majority local lads like they did yesterday and why the standard is a lot higher than our local lads. What are they doing differently? Why are we classing Hull as a hot bed of Rugby League when we are not producing local lads to the standard of Wigan.

This needs to be addressed and researched for me.

For me its the big fish in a little pond attitude. This has been going on in Hull for donkey's years. A little bit of success seems to be good enough, doing well in junior teams then maybe going to one of the top open age teams. You only have to look at the fact that we produce 5 teams in the top flight of the national conference, which is far more than anyone else. But the standard coming through to first grade just does not translate.

Whereas in places like Wigan success at St Pats is getting to play for Wigan, success at Wigan is winning trophies.

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For me its the big fish in a little pond attitude. This has been going on in Hull for donkey's years. A little bit of success seems to be good enough, doing well in junior teams then maybe going to one of the top open age teams. You only have to look at the fact that we produce 5 teams in the top flight of the national conference, which is far more than anyone else. But the standard coming through to first grade just does not translate.

Whereas in places like Wigan success at St Pats is getting to play for Wigan, success at Wigan is winning trophies.

I can't argue with that summing up. I've been saying for years that Hull as a city never produces the same number of internationals as the likes of Wigan and even Leigh (no disrespect intended Leigh fans). Hull should easily be turning out SL players by the score. Unfortunately they don't even turn out as many SL players as a single amateur club in Wigan does.

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We've established that there is a legitimate issue here so we need to find the root cause and put something in place to try and improve the ever-increasing gap.

Wigan had some really impressive young players in there: Jack Hughes, Chris Tuson, Sam Powell, Clint Newton (Greg Burke), Tom Spencer etc.

Their production line has decked out a few Super League sides as well. A few sides have had a Wigan junior in their ranks in the last 5-10 years.

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I can't argue with that summing up. I've been saying for years that Hull as a city never produces the same number of internationals as the likes of Wigan and even Leigh (no disrespect intended Leigh fans). Hull should easily be turning out SL players by the score. Unfortunately they don't even turn out as many SL players as a single amateur club in Wigan does.

I will never forget watching Paul Cooke playing loose forward for Hull Boys under 15's. There were easily 5 players in that team just as talented at that age but not one of them went any further in fact most of the kids stopped playing altogether within the nest 2 years.

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I don't think you'd get an argument from me that Leeds are the most successful side at the moment, given trophies are the benchmark. However Wigan and Warrington have still taken a reasonable share over the last three / four years and the former certainly rival Leeds on every other measure since Lenegan took over.

I'm not greedy or naive enough to expect the kind of success that Wigan enjoyed from the late 80s and 90s. Circumstances suggest that such a level of one team dominance in all major competitions is no longer achievable. I'm just happy that the club is now well managed, financially stable, marketed effectively and has a team to be proud of with a decent proportion of home grown players utilising the type of rugby that is a joy to watch. People on this forum might think the SL is in decline, but from a one club perspective the future hasn't looked brighter for Wigan in the SL era. However I'll reserve the right to change this view if / when Tomkins leaves in the Autumn.

Wigan still lead the way on many aspects. Speaking of Tomkins, my brother-in-law always makes it an excuse if Wigan lose when Tomkins isn't playing! Surely Wigan aren't a one-man team? As of today, the side have made a great start given the doom-mongers who thought Wigan would suffer after losing so many influential players. Time will tell if it turns up trumps!

As for Leeds, will we ever see a side win three Grand Finals on the trot, or five out of six finals? Or lose five in a row? :rolleyes:

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Wigan still lead the way on many aspects. Speaking of Tomkins, my brother-in-law always makes it an excuse if Wigan lose when Tomkins isn't playing! Surely Wigan aren't a one-man team? As of today, the side have made a great start given the doom-mongers who though Wigan would suffer after losing so many influential players. Time will tell if it turns up trumps!

Recent games against Leeds suggest they are(just joking),he is one of Wigans major attacking threats with the ability to produce something from nothing but I wouldn't say they are a one man team.

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Recent games against Leeds suggest they are(just joking),he is one of Wigans major attacking threats with the ability to produce something from nothing but I wouldn't say they are a one man team.

I'm sure the same reason was given when Wigan lost in last year's Grand Final play-offs without Tompkins! I could stand corrected. Some fans really do have rose-tinted glasses, including my cousin who is a Saints fan. At the end of the day, great sides overcome adversity.

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I gave credit to Wigan and to Wane. I love his attitude and mentality. No excuses.

Our game is one of physical contact, aggression, skill, honesty and mental strength. Wane brings at least 4 of these components to the table and he has 2 assistant coaches who are 2 of the best half backs this country has seen in the last 20 years. Between them they are a great package. I would love a coach like him at my club.

Wane has done an excellent job, seems to be a good man-manager and is also able to fire up the team spirits when necessary. We should also not forget the work done by Maguire too.

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I'm sure the same reason was given when Wigan lost in last year's Grand Final play-offs without Tompkins! I could stand corrected. Some fans really do have rose-tinted glasses, including my cousin who is a Saints fan. At the end of the day, great sides overcome adversity.

I hate to say it but I think we are a one man team. Whilst we should have enough to beat many teams without Tomkins we seem unable to.

This match against HKR was interesting with regards to Tomkins. In O'Loughlan's absence he was captain and played a completely different game. He only got one try but was involved in at least 8 others. He seemed to be directing the team much more vocally and acting more like a stand off (which many still see as his natural position).

I hope he stays after the world cup but sadly without some movement on the cap I can't see it. Indeed it wouldn't surprise me if the RFU push the boat out to make public his signing just before the WC to negate any good headlines it might generate. I'd still prefer him to got the the NRL but their cap is only due to increase the year after isn't it? Saying that I'd prefer he went to Saints or Leeds than union.

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Wane has done an excellent job, seems to be a good man-manager and is also able to fire up the team spirits when necessary. We should also not forget the work done by Maguire too.

Yes Maguire started the ball rolling and Wane has carried it on. Although the trophies have not flooded in, I believe Wigan have laid the platform for continued success were they will challange for honours throughout the next 10 years, and if they maintain the production of young players then they will continue to be strong.

Both Rovers and Hull need to look to this example and really start to try and create a different attitude. Rovers especially seem to have this attitude that it is sufficient to do better than Hull. Whilest it is always nice to bet FC I get much greater satisfaction from going to Leeds and winning, or Wigan or Saints and Warrington. Because these are the clubs that are the yardstick, they win the trophies and if you want to win trophies these are the clubs you have to beat.

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Although the trophies have not flooded in, I believe Wigan have laid the platform for continued success were they will challange for honours throughout the next 10 years, and if they maintain the production of young players then they will continue to be strong.

TBF we've won 3 titles in 3 years, which isn't bad! (SL Grand Final, Challenge Cup and League Leaders Shield)

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TBF we've won 3 titles in 3 years, which isn't bad! (SL Grand Final, Challenge Cup and League Leaders Shield)

Sorry about that yes you have, it just seems quite a long time ago though.

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Wigan still lead the way on many aspects. Speaking of Tomkins, my brother-in-law always makes it an excuse if Wigan lose when Tomkins isn't playing! Surely Wigan aren't a one-man team? As of today, the side have made a great start given the doom-mongers who thought Wigan would suffer after losing so many influential players. Time will tell if it turns up trumps!

As for Leeds, will we ever see a side win three Grand Finals on the trot, or five out of six finals? Or lose five in a row? :rolleyes:

The Tomkins point is a valid one, Wigan's record without him over the last three or four seasons is extremely poor, something like 3 wins in 11 games. Wigan need to find an effective way of playing in his absence.

In terms of the doom mongers, I'll admit I was one, and I'm happy to eat humble pie (rather than steak for once) in terms of how Wigan have performed so far.

In terms of Leeds, what they have done is phenomenal, although I think back to back to back GF winners is achievable again - it even might happen this season. Losing five times in a row however is a more unique achievement that is unlikely to be replicated ;-)

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