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Bearman

Will we ever catch up?

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The question shouldn't be "Will we ever catch up?" but "How do we catch up?".

Yes.

And the answer has to be a set of concrete activities that you can actually do. Not a wishlist of outcomes.

For example, "Make SL as intense as the NRL" is a pointless comment. "Use the assessment criteria for an SL franchise to make sure every European SL club has high quality training facilities" is something that can actually be done.

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Is the right and logical answer.

Wishing and hoping, planning and dreaming...we have a snowball in hell's chance of overtaking soccer as no. one sport in the Uk, and that is the only way to get crowds like 50K plus for matches.

Crowds of 50k at matches is never going to happen. Wishing for them is pointless. Waiting for them to happen is stupid.

Crowds of 10k is a perfectly sensible and realistic target.

What we need is a 12 or so clubs with good facilities on and off the pitch, with high quality junior development schemes and cultures of long term, continuous improvement.

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In reply to the original post.

No England are unlikely to catch up, the respective games have moved on from the days where England were the stronger partner in the game.

Some things move in cycles, this is not the case with Rugby League between the two Nations

Australia has moved forward in a big way especially with the media deals and Sponsorship the game attracts due to the TV ratings.

England probably needs a short and long term plan to reinvent itself even in the Northern homelands.

A good TV ad or even a win in the years World Cup will not be the catalyst for a massive change, it will have some gloss for a while and then life moves on, a World Cup win is great until you get thrashed the next game.

Does anyone think the Kiwis are the best team in the World due to their success in a couple of one off games.

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I got prem sports for the first time this year.

After watching the NRL for the first time. Its not just the size of the crowd we need to catch up.

The game is much better to watch. The players are much better. The way the game is reffed is much better.

We are lights years behind them in every aspect.

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I posted here a week or so ago about developing Juniors and School teams and a few people said that was rubbish.

Football (Soccer) has a huge following, why is that? because most people have played the game at some level, be it at School, the local 7th grade team in a Village or Town, in some way there has been a connection.

Or there has been so many with a connection that the game looks like the game that is popular and the game to follow for the ones that have never played any Sport.

Australia has built the game where it is today in Oz by the local communities that promote the Juniors and their local games between small towns in the bush and country towns.

When SOO is played and they show the players photos and profiles look at where they come from, small local clubs built around local communities.

Build the foundations with the enthusiasts and get the game into all of the local Schools, its not a Flat Capper mentality its the obvious way to move forward.

The problem in England seems to have been the Cities and Towns that were Rugby League strongholds lost their way to some extent and decided importing players was easier and cheaper than building the infrastructure to develop a Junior player.

What are the chances of a Punter just deciding Rugby League looks like a great game although I know nothing at all about it other than I stumbled across it on a TV channel showing Ice Hockey and Badminton?

Or a team was just landed in my patch by the authorities, London, Wales, without any build up of the local juniors and community support, NONE

The Yanks think Gridiron, Basketball, Baseball and Ice Hockey are the ducks Nuts, they have not done well in selling their brands overseas in any meaningful way, even with all their money and Media.

Salford are on a hiding to nothing, the money will not matter, there is no grass roots support and the money will fade before the enthusiasm grows.

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Crowds of 50k at matches is never going to happen. Wishing for them is pointless. Waiting for them to happen is stupid.

Crowds of 10k is a perfectly sensible and realistic target.

What we need is a 12 or so clubs with good facilities on and off the pitch, with high quality junior development schemes and cultures of long term, continuous improvement.

And it's worth pointing out that a 12 team league with all that would put us comfortably into 'second biggest professional sport' in England territory and would represent the strongest period in rugby league's history.

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Personally, I don't think we'll ever catch the aussies up and I don't have a problem with that. The NRL is light years ahead of what we could ever achieve in England; we have no equivalent to State of Origin and the Kangaroos are just remorseless. We may win the occasional match, perhaps a series. Maybe, like New Zealand, those wins will be in finals. Gotta enjoy the challenge though.

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the biggest factor in them getting 51,000 was the fact that "the royal easter show" was held around ANZ stadium....it easily added 20k to the attendance

as for "will we ever catch up"............penrith's attendance on sunday was 8,000

what the aussies are good at is hyping up games...and putting out "dogdy" ticket sales figure to entice fans to buy tickets early

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the biggest factor in them getting 51,000 was the fact that "the royal easter show" was held around ANZ stadium....it easily added 20k to the attendance

as for "will we ever catch up"............penrith's attendance on sunday was 8,000

what the aussies are good at is hyping up games...and putting out "dogdy" ticket sales figure to entice fans to buy tickets early

The season average for 2012 was 17,346. (For comparison: AFL was 32,748 but, as said, lower TV audience).

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the biggest factor in them getting 51,000 was the fact that "the royal easter show" was held around ANZ stadium....it easily added 20k to the attendance

as for "will we ever catch up"............penrith's attendance on sunday was 8,000

what the aussies are good at is hyping up games...and putting out "dogdy" ticket sales figure to entice fans to buy tickets early

That is not right Spud.

The Easter Show attracts a totally different crowd than an NRL match, if fact some footy fans would have pulled out of a game that has so many Easter Show fans blocking up the Trains into the Stadium.

Penrith came second last in 2012, you will hardly get many away fans catch a plane from 1000 klms away them travel 40klms from the Airport to Penrith to see the game a team that this year has played 4 won 1.

You are picking a tough scenario Spud, how many were at London the other week? not an outer western suburb of Sydney but a fairly large Town by all accounts.

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The way the two are broadcasted in my mind makes a huge difference. Would you rather watch a rugby match from a modern looking stadium, big crowd, nice pitch, beautiful sunny day or from a delapedated (sp)stadium, half empty crowd, churned up boggy pitch on a cold raining night? I'm pretty sure the NRL uses fake crowd noise or tampers with the volumes of it as I notice the sound always goes up a significant amount when a tackle is about to be made. But these are all things to make the product look better for the TV audience, which in my imo work very well.

First impression turning on a NRL match, 'wow nice day, crowd looks good, nice ground.'

First impression turning on a SL match, 'wow there's hardly any ###### there and that pitch looks like a bluddy mudbath'

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I think it was on another thread that someone posted that they had started watching rugby league (at Widnes) as a result of the Rugby League of the Extraordinary campaign. Shows that such campaigns can have an impact, it's just that we never know how much of an impact they have. We all know that crowds went up in 2012 and have gone down this season. Was the increase in crowds in 2012 anything to do with the Stobart promotion? It could be, but we would never know. Also, we had a tremendous four nations competition at the end of 2011 which was promoted and covered very well, and England put on a great show at Wembley. I went, and there were loads of southern English accents to be heard around the stadium - a bit of a novelty for me as I hadn't really heard any at previous rugby league matches. Could it be that the lack of a four nations has meant that any advances we made last season have been undermined or perhaps last season was so dire people were put off following through.

One area where I do think we are consistently missing a trick is by not marketing Good Friday derbies as a derby day event. Why is the RFL not making a massive deal of what is a natural and embedded event in our calendar? There was no marketing or promotion for derby day and yet as can be seen by rugby union, people are attracted by events. While in some ways Good Friday sells itself, that is only to the converted. I am sure there is a great campaign just waiting to get out if only someone would release it.

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The way the two are broadcasted in my mind makes a huge difference. Would you rather watch a rugby match from a modern looking stadium, big crowd, nice pitch, beautiful sunny day or from a delapedated (sp)stadium, half empty crowd, churned up boggy pitch on a cold raining night? I'm pretty sure the NRL uses fake crowd noise or tampers with the volumes of it as I notice the sound always goes up a significant amount when a tackle is about to be made. But these are all things to make the product look better for the TV audience, which in my imo work very well.

First impression turning on a NRL match, 'wow nice day, crowd looks good, nice ground.'

First impression turning on a SL match, 'wow there's hardly any ###### there and that pitch looks like a bluddy mudbath'

The TV Coverage is more upmarket in the NRL, More Cameras, reasonable commentators that are often ex legends of the game that have been put through media courses they can not change the Weather usually.

I do not think they dub crowd noise at all.

The Stand that is in view of the Camera is usually the preferred stand by the fans for different reasons.

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Have crowds gone down this season, though? Would't it be better to wait until after the grand final and make a judgement over the whole season, not just over 8 or 9 league games? That way, weather effects for example might have been cancelled out.

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The season average for 2012 was 17,346. (For comparison: AFL was 32,748 but, as said, lower TV audience).

whats the NRL average if you take brisbane's average out of it?

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The TV Coverage is more upmarket in the NRL, More Cameras, reasonable commentators that are often ex legends of the game that have been put through media courses they can not change the Weather usually.

I do not think they dub crowd noise at all.

The Stand that is in view of the Camera is usually the preferred stand by the fans for different reasons.

are there more cameras at a standard game? Sky cover games brilliantly (whether people like the commentators is up to them - we do use 5 ex GB internationals)

Penrith had thousands of empty seats facing the cameras and usually do.

Sport in the two countries is different. They have clubs sharing grounds - listen to the outrage when suggested here!

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whats the NRL average if you take brisbane's average out of it?

The current season is 17k with Brisbane, bear in mind a City the size if Brisbane could support 2 or 3 teams its only the Broncos Newscorp SL clout that has killed this off for a decade.

Last years average Club crowd was 16.5K

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are there more cameras at a standard game? Sky cover games brilliantly (whether people like the commentators is up to them - we do use 5 ex GB internationals)

Penrith had thousands of empty seats facing the cameras and usually do.

Sport in the two countries is different. They have clubs sharing grounds - listen to the outrage when suggested here!

Dave when I watch the SL Game the coverage by the Cameras is something from a decade ago.

Too much in close stuff when the ball is moving out wide.

Not sure whos coverage it is but the continual repeats of play that often make the commentators look like Oafs by their comments.

Just my thoughts but the Camera coverage in the game in the UK is behind the times, the commentary is further behind.

As far as Clubs sharing grounds, it will be like Club amalgamations it is just one of the Nails that is hitting the Games Coffin.

Does anyone think the old ARL Clubs wanted to merge? not at all but seeing two Clubs in a City Like Hull and Bradford/Leeds will send the game down the slope.

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The current season is 17k with Brisbane, bear in mind a City the size if Brisbane could support 2 or 3 teams its only the Broncos Newscorp SL clout that has killed this off for a decade.

Last years average Club crowd was 16.5K

so what is it without brisbane's 33k average???

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Dave when I watch the SL Game the coverage by the Cameras is something from a decade ago.

Too much in close stuff when the ball is moving out wide.

Not sure whos coverage it is but the continual repeats of play that often make the commentators look like Oafs by their comments.

Just my thoughts but the Camera coverage in the game in the UK is behind the times, the commentary is further behind.

As far as Clubs sharing grounds, it will be like Club amalgamations it is just one of the Nails that is hitting the Games Coffin.

Does anyone think the old ARL Clubs wanted to merge? not at all but seeing two Clubs in a City Like Hull and Bradford/Leeds will send the game down the slope.

I dont really agree with the cameras thing - apart from the zooming in point. They often zoom in at point of collision which means the impact of a big hit is lost. They dont tend to zoom in when the ball is being spread.

The lack of and slowness of the replays on the Aussie coverage drives me mad, but then I suppose its what we are used to watching.

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so what is it without brisbane's 33k average???

I do not know, about 1000 less when averaged over 16 Clubs whats your Maths like?

What does it matter?

If all the Clubs average 16.5k and Brissy are 33k work it out Spud

What is SL averages without the top few Clubs numbers?

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I dont really agree with the cameras thing - apart from the zooming in point. They often zoom in at point of collision which means the impact of a big hit is lost. They dont tend to zoom in when the ball is being spread.

The lack of and slowness of the replays on the Aussie coverage drives me mad, but then I suppose its what we are used to watching.

Dave I am sorry but when I watch a SL game I think the Coverage is from the last time Great Britain beat Australia in a series.

It is probably with the commentators a small part of why the game can not move forward in the UK. its living in the past, when ever I have watched the WCC it is really poor by todays standards.

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Dave I am sorry but when I watch a SL game I think the Coverage is from the last time Great Britain beat Australia in a series.

It is probably with the commentators a small part of why the game can not move forward in the UK. its living in the past, when ever I have watched the WCC it is really poor by todays standards.

Sky are generally very very good at Sports broadcasts.

I personally find the Aussie coverage dull - although i like some of the buildup and changing room stuff.

The graphics are often like a cheap xbox game.

Suppose its what we are used to seeing on our screens.

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Sky are generally very very good at Sports broadcasts.

I personally find the Aussie coverage dull - although i like some of the buildup and changing room stuff.

The graphics are often like a cheap xbox game.

Suppose its what we are used to seeing on our screens.

The worst thing I have ever seen in broadcast sport was that sbw thoughts thing a few weeks ago, it was embarrassing.

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a World Cup win is great until you get thrashed the next game.

I could live with that. I do agree with your comments about the need for more grassroots development though. Unfortunately in the UK SL is the be all and end all of rugby league. It wouldn't be so bad if the SL clubs were actually investing the same money and time in youth development as they once were but they are now in a process of contracting that development that in my opinion is to the detriment of the game as a whole.

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