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goldcoaster

RIP Hull KR?

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Quite why the only pleasure some 'supporters' of the game get,is from the difficulties of other Clubs,is quite beyond me.

And who's doing that ?

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Becuase the RFL have created the divide by the Licensing criterea, I'm a fax fan and to be honest i was one of those that hoped Bradford went to the wall in the hope they would allow a championship team in, I shouldn't have felt this was and didn't before licensing, but since, i and a lot of other championship fans feel ...........F em mentality, I am sure some SL fans feel the same about the championship clubs, CAS etc who are in the Sh!t come next licence, if indeed they still have licensing. It has been turned into a case of, i'm glad its them, not us.

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Yep, it was the RL family that kept Bramley, Hunslet, Runcorn, Chorley etc afloat after all.

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Nah, it was no different before licensing - now you've at least got something to blame, before licensing a Fax fan would have taken delight in Bradfords demise and blamed it on the Bulls taking all the casual fans from the Fax area

People take delight in this sort of thing because the game is still far too parochial and tribal

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The sad thing is that Hull KR have actually done really well over the years. As a Widnes fan, KR always used to average less than us in the Championship but get comfortably more than us in Super League. I think 10,000 is unrealistic especially at Craven park.

 

The game is really reaching a crossroads at the top level I think. It does appear that crowds have taken a backwards step this year and a number of the money men appear reluctant to fund the difference anymore. Hull KR, Huddersfield, London, Salford and Widnes are 5 clubs with backers that cannot sustain their current support levels and we are seeing the money men state their disappointment in crowds, appealing to fans to support the clubs. There are no candidates below Super League that could do a better job than these clubs crowds wise. 

 

I think we'll see big changes in the next couple of years, certainly a reduction in the number of clubs and possibly even a move to 2 leagues of 10. We cannot seem to sustain 14 at the best of times, never mind during a recession. 

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Just paper talk off the back of Hudgell's statement about the Wigan defeat. Indeed, it will breed concern throughout the Rovers' support.

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The sad thing is that Hull KR have actually done really well over the years. As a Widnes fan, KR always used to average less than us in the Championship but get comfortably more than us in Super League. I think 10,000 is unrealistic especially at Craven park.

The game is really reaching a crossroads at the top level I think. It does appear that crowds have taken a backwards step this year and a number of the money men appear reluctant to fund the difference anymore. Hull KR, Huddersfield, London, Salford and Widnes are 5 clubs with backers that cannot sustain their current support levels and we are seeing the money men state their disappointment in crowds, appealing to fans to support the clubs. There are no candidates below Super League that could do a better job than these clubs crowds wise.

I think we'll see big changes in the next couple of years, certainly a reduction in the number of clubs and possibly even a move to 2 leagues of 10. We cannot seem to sustain 14 at the best of times, never mind during a recession.

Craven Park was a ###### ground when they were in the second division but they have done quite a lot of refurbishment including an extension of the covered terraced stand as well as a new covered stand at one end, which is not yet finished. This is a credit to them as other SL clubs have done little or naff all and have poor stadia.

I think 10k at Craven park is achieveable when the work is complete esp if they can sort the other end out. Hull KR also have one of the biggest away followings in SL as do Hull.

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The sad thing is that Hull KR have actually done really well over the years. As a Widnes fan, KR always used to average less than us in the Championship but get comfortably more than us in Super League. I think 10,000 is unrealistic especially at Craven park.

The game is really reaching a crossroads at the top level I think. It does appear that crowds have taken a backwards step this year and a number of the money men appear reluctant to fund the difference anymore. Hull KR, Huddersfield, London, Salford and Widnes are 5 clubs with backers that cannot sustain their current support levels and we are seeing the money men state their disappointment in crowds, appealing to fans to support the clubs. There are no candidates below Super League that could do a better job than these clubs crowds wise.

I think we'll see big changes in the next couple of years, certainly a reduction in the number of clubs and possibly even a move to 2 leagues of 10. We cannot seem to sustain 14 at the best of times, never mind during a recession.

I agree. When you see a Huddersfield side doing well and getting very low crowds even when ticket prices are so low it is a worry. Ultimately market forces will decide the future but right now I seriously worry about the future of the game. What will it take to get big crowds at the likes of salford and london? I used to think that a winning team would do the trick but now I'm not sure that even that would work. Perhaps we are all blinkered and this great game is actually boring to the masses?

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Isn't that the new RL culture created by the RFL? Advancement at someone else demise, hence the demise is sought after and celebrated

I don't understand. . . Oh hang on you're talking about promotion and relegation. Very strange.

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I agree. When you see a Huddersfield side doing well and getting very low crowds even when ticket prices are so low it is a worry. Ultimately market forces will decide the future but right now I seriously worry about the future of the game. What will it take to get big crowds at the likes of salford and london? I used to think that a winning team would do the trick but now I'm not sure that even that would work. Perhaps we are all blinkered and this great game is actually boring to the masses?

Neither Salford or London are winning though, and London have other problems (playing in the most ridiculous area, poorly ran etc).

Huddersfield are winning though and their support is a concern. Their poor away support suggests the new fans they have picked up are not very tribal. I think this the decline of tribalism is not just an issue at Huddersfield either. Have we over egged the "family game" and "razzamatazz"?

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Huddersfields support had been growing year on year, this year is without a doubt a problem due to the wider economy - people just have to make cutbacks and when you look out the window at snow, rain and wind on a Sunday afternoon it's an easy choice

As for travelling support its been noticably lower for all clubs visiting the John Smiths Stadium, Widnes brought twice as many last season for example - and despite people saying "you can't rely on away support", that's where the weekly cash comes from, and the Likes of Wigan and Leeds wouldn't get 20K crowds without Saints and Bradford bringing so many fans with them would they?

Ironically more Giants fans seem to be going to away games in recent years

Hopefully with the weather turning we may just see an upswing in crowds

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Huddersfields support had been growing year on year, this year is without a doubt a problem due to the wider economy - people just have to make cutbacks and when you look out the window at snow, rain and wind on a Sunday afternoon it's an easy choice

As for travelling support its been noticably lower for all clubs visiting the John Smiths Stadium, Widnes brought twice as many last season for example - and despite people saying "you can't rely on away support", that's where the weekly cash comes from, and the Likes of Wigan and Leeds wouldn't get 20K crowds without Saints and Bradford bringing so many fans with them would they?

Ironically more Giants fans seem to be going to away games in recent years

Hopefully with the weather turning we may just see an upswing in crowds

I think more should be done to encourage away support as this makes for a better atmosphere, which in turn will pull in more home fans.

I have noticed at London that the number of travelling supporters has declined massively over the last 10 years. In turn this has lead to a poorer atmosphere. It was always a good thing to see huge swathes of away support

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A successful side and some decent marketing would probably be enough to see Salford safe, but I'm of the opinion that the London 'brand' is now terminally damaged.

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A successful side and some decent marketing would probably be enough to see Salford safe, but I'm of the opinion that the London 'brand' is now terminally damaged.

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A successful side and some decent marketing would probably be enough to see Salford safe, but I'm of the opinion that the London 'brand' is now terminally damaged.

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In my very "umble" opinion people should realise that the SKY contract demands a professional League but SKY won't pay for it as it is. They pay monies towards a professional league but the limited amount of clubs equipped to have a go at being professional still can't all pay top wages with those monies, because the lower clubs attendances plus the SKY subsidy won't pay up to the cap.

Sometimes rich club owners make the difference up, sometimes they get fed up and stop. It's a darn mess and SKY are very much the villains. They want a decent product for their sports channel and they don't pay enough.

I'm sure Hull would like HKR to eff off and leave them with the additional players they need (Dobson, Welham etc) to put a decent team out and compete. I'm sure Wakefield would love it if Cas collapsed and Nahaboo did not come up with the money so they too can get all the players and crowds to compete.

Equally Davey is moaning about crowds. I'm sure he'd do OK if Town and Bulls both disintegrated.

In 1973 Dewsbury were RFL Champions and crowds didn't quadruple, so Mick Lumb had a go at the good people of Dewsbury. It was a stupidity chairmen repeat today. The very idea that people "should" respond to the success of a small club in a regional game in their thousands is delusion. Even mega success Leeds crowds flatline.

I'm sure if some rich guy tries to rejuvinate Hunslet and the famous Leeds Derby, Hetherington will roll his eyes out of his sockets.

We debated to a general conclusion how without SKY RL would die or only exist as a tiny minority sport. Even with SKY it's heading that way, but I would guess 2015 will be a watershed for the game when it will need to realise it has to take into account what Maurice Lyndsay said (cue small minded prejudices).....

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Neither Salford or London are winning though, and London have other problems (playing in the most ridiculous area, poorly ran etc).

Huddersfield are winning though and their support is a concern. Their poor away support suggests the new fans they have picked up are not very tribal. I think this the decline of tribalism is not just an issue at Huddersfield either. Have we over egged the "family game" and "razzamatazz"?

 

 

I think the problem at Huddersfield is years of under achievement.  I saw Huddersfield win the Championship at Odsal in 1962 - they've won nothing since.  They've had some success lately but IMO it will take years to build up a following again.  I'd guess in the intervening period between 1962 and now thousands of prospective Fartowners have decamped to Bradford (when they were in their pomp at least) and Leeds.  I hope Ken Davey keeps persevering with them  after all Huddersfield is a very large town with a very large catchment area - especially to the west - in the Colne Valley.

Neither Salford or London are winning though, and London have other problems (playing in the most ridiculous area, poorly ran etc).

Huddersfield are winning though and their support is a concern. Their poor away support suggests the new fans they have picked up are not very tribal. I think this the decline of tribalism is not just an issue at Huddersfield either. Have we over egged the "family game" and "razzamatazz"?

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I think the problem at Huddersfield is years of under achievement. I saw Huddersfield win the Championship at Odsal in 1962 - they've won nothing since. They've had some success lately but IMO it will take years to build up a following again. I'd guess in the intervening period between 1962 and now thousands of prospective Fartowners have decamped to Bradford (when they were in their pomp at least) and Leeds. I hope Ken Davey keeps persevering with them after all Huddersfield is a very large town with a very large catchment area - especially to the west - in the Colne Valley.

Fair comment. If, as Ant says, the away support is starting to pick up, then maybe the tribalism is returning

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As you might also imagine, a lot of casual fans are just waiting to see if the wheels fall off again

If we get to May still in reasonable form it might make a big difference.

Equally frustratingly is that in recent seasons when we have made a big push to bring in fans for a big game the team chooses that moment to implode so those casual fans who made the effort to come down go away dissapointed and thinking "same as ever"

Simply we need a pot.

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In my very "umble" opinion people should realise that the SKY contract demands a professional League but SKY won't pay for it as it is. They pay monies towards a professional league but the limited amount of clubs equipped to have a go at being professional still can't all pay top wages with those monies, because the lower clubs attendances plus the SKY subsidy won't pay up to the cap.

Sometimes rich club owners make the difference up, sometimes they get fed up and stop. It's a darn mess and SKY are very much the villains. They want a decent product for their sports channel and they don't pay enough.

I'm sure Hull would like HKR to eff off and leave them with the additional players they need (Dobson, Welham etc) to put a decent team out and compete. I'm sure Wakefield would love it if Cas collapsed and Nahaboo did not come up with the money so they too can get all the players and crowds to compete.

Equally Davey is moaning about crowds. I'm sure he'd do OK if Town and Bulls both disintegrated.

In 1973 Dewsbury were RFL Champions and crowds didn't quadruple, so Mick Lumb had a go at the good people of Dewsbury. It was a stupidity chairmen repeat today. The very idea that people "should" respond to the success of a small club in a regional game in their thousands is delusion. Even mega success Leeds crowds flatline.

I'm sure if some rich guy tries to rejuvinate Hunslet and the famous Leeds Derby, Hetherington will roll his eyes out of his sockets.

We debated to a general conclusion how without SKY RL would die or only exist as a tiny minority sport. Even with SKY it's heading that way, but I would guess 2015 will be a watershed for the game when it will need to realise it has to take into account what Maurice Lyndsay said (cue small minded prejudices).....

 

 

As you say RL is a minority sport. Worse it's a minority version of a minority sport.  Support on a large scale for Rugby of either code in the UK is patchy. There are areas where Rugby is fairly strong - the East Midlands, the West of England, South Wales and the area that dare not speak its name on here where our version is strong.  And changing this is virtually impossible. You only have to look at our own sport.  7K turn out at Wakey - I remember when you'd see supporters club buses at Belle Vue from Brierley, Ryhill, Mapplewell Green, with the decline of Wakey in the seventies this support dwindled.  And game  never took off in Barnsley at pro level.  Same in Humberside/North Lincs.  The inhabitants of Scunny and Grimsby must be very aware of RL - it's mentioned on Radio Humberside and their version of Look North all the time - but presumably there's never been any demand for a pro side.  In Lancashire, Wigan attract mega support,  a lot of it from Chorley I suppose, but Preston and Blackburn - just up the road - forget it.  I bet the Union boys would say the same.  Leicester and Northampton are very strong - but there's no big team at all east of them - or west of them until you reach Worcester.  It's a difficult sell.  I've always been an advocate of international success as the key to both growth in support in our home areas and possible expansion.  If we have a successful World Cup - not necessarily winning it (ok that would be favourite) but getting to the final and putting up a good show, i reckon something could be built on the back of that.  I urge the SL clubs to give international football some priority this year for their own and more importantly the games' long term interests.

In my very "umble" opinion people should realise that the SKY contract demands a professional League but SKY won't pay for it as it is. They pay monies towards a professional league but the limited amount of clubs equipped to have a go at being professional still can't all pay top wages with those monies, because the lower clubs attendances plus the SKY subsidy won't pay up to the cap.

Sometimes rich club owners make the difference up, sometimes they get fed up and stop. It's a darn mess and SKY are very much the villains. They want a decent product for their sports channel and they don't pay enough.

I'm sure Hull would like HKR to eff off and leave them with the additional players they need (Dobson, Welham etc) to put a decent team out and compete. I'm sure Wakefield would love it if Cas collapsed and Nahaboo did not come up with the money so they too can get all the players and crowds to compete.

Equally Davey is moaning about crowds. I'm sure he'd do OK if Town and Bulls both disintegrated.

In 1973 Dewsbury were RFL Champions and crowds didn't quadruple, so Mick Lumb had a go at the good people of Dewsbury. It was a stupidity chairmen repeat today. The very idea that people "should" respond to the success of a small club in a regional game in their thousands is delusion. Even mega success Leeds crowds flatline.

I'm sure if some rich guy tries to rejuvinate Hunslet and the famous Leeds Derby, Hetherington will roll his eyes out of his sockets.

We debated to a general conclusion how without SKY RL would die or only exist as a tiny minority sport. Even with SKY it's heading that way, but I would guess 2015 will be a watershed for the game when it will need to realise it has to take into account what Maurice Lyndsay said (cue small minded prejudices).....

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Posted · Hidden by John Drake, April 7, 2013 - No reason given

Also reported in the SMH in Australia that Hull KR still use controversial high-performance consultant Stephen Dank. This is the guy who has landed the 6 NRL clubs (including the Sharks) in hot water. While every sports club in Australia has distanced themselves from Dank, Hull KR still use him.

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Huddersfields problem is, it is not a rugby town and never will be really, unless a massive amount of money and resources are thrown in at grassroots level. The likes of Wigan, St.Helens, Leeds, Hull , Hull KR, Castleford even Halifax, Featherstone are fortunate in a way to have such a strong base to work from and can work with schools and a number of important people who value what Rugby League does and can achieve for the area. Throwing away tickets like Huddersfield and Bradford have done, has not really worked and is just a cheap publicity stunt and cheapens the product for me. Whilst Huddersfield (and others)have done some schools and grassroots work, its not really been done enough, especially when based in a weak rugby area. I do feel ALL clubs, not just Huddersfield, concentrate way too much on the first team and forget or dont place enough importance on Spending more money on marketing and promotion. Many people for some strange reason would rather follow lower level football, whether it be Huddersfield or Leeds than take in Rugby League. But have clubs really properly marketted themselves and games as big need to be seen at events? Most clubs just seem to be happy to the minimum and preach to the converted via Facebook, Twitter etc. But what do these clubs do exactly to bring them and the game to new people? Clubs are struggling because they have done the bare minimum in many cases. The clubs have only themselves to blame often for the lower crowds than what they want

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