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goldcoaster

RIP Hull KR?

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Huddersfields problem is, it is not a rugby town and never will be really, unless a massive amount of money and resources are thrown in at grassroots level. Many people for some strange reason would rather follow lower level football, whether it be Huddersfield or Leeds than take in Rugby League.

Huddersfield is a Rugby league town as much as Hull, Leeds, Wigan, Bradford etc. of course it is with a long long history and a base of amateur teams.

Huddersfield suffer from competition from the soccer and Huddersfield Town are a big football outfit with a big history. Leeds suffer from competition from United.

Wigan from Athletic, Bradford from City, Hull/HKR from City etc etc. Athletic are a premier club, City have been such, Leeds United are a big club with a big history.

Sure Huddersfield is primarily a soccer town but so is Leeds and so is Bradford......

As for "lower league" soccer, it's still a bigger game than league even into the second division. Nothing strange about why soccer clubs get big crowds, it has a massive amateur base.

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. Whilst Huddersfield (and others)have done some schools and grassroots work, its not really been done enough, especially when based in a weak rugby area. I do feel ALL clubs, not just Huddersfield, concentrate way too much on the first team and forget or dont place enough importance on Spending more money on marketing and promotion. Many people for some strange reason would rather follow lower level football, whether it be Huddersfield or Leeds than take in Rugby League. But have clubs really properly marketted themselves and games as big need to be seen at events? Most clubs just seem to be happy to the minimum and preach to the converted via Facebook, Twitter etc. But what do these clubs do exactly to bring them and the game to new people? Clubs are struggling because they have done the bare minimum in many cases. The clubs have only themselves to blame often for the lower crowds than what they want

All too often completely clueless management seem to think that by spending money to create a winning team will result in increased attendances , well it did , 30 years ago , now things are different , new idea's have to be tried , but convincing them to put aside a dedicated marketing budget is nigh on impossible

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Huddersfield is a Rugby league town as much as Hull, Leeds, Wigan, Bradford etc. of course it is with a long long history and a base of amateur teams.

Huddersfield suffer from competition from the soccer and Huddersfield Town are a big football outfit with a big history. Leeds suffer from competition from United.

Wigan from Athletic, Bradford from City, Hull/HKR from City etc etc. Athletic are a premier club, City have been such, Leeds United are a big club with a big history.

Sure Huddersfield is primarily a soccer town but so is Leeds and so is Bradford......

As for "lower league" soccer, it's still a bigger game than league even into the second division. Nothing strange about why soccer clubs get big crowds, it has a massive amateur base.

Both Huddersfield and Bradford are not strong Rugby areas. Yes they have old pro clubs there, but the game has not really had a strong base there for decades, if at all. Leeds, Hull , Wigan whilst having Big football teams or ones that have been in the top division, have and usually have had a strong amateur club scene in the area. Huddersfield for example, does not have that strong an amateur scene and never has had compared to other areas. Halifax, Oldham and Leigh have a much stronger amateur scene and are more known as rugby areas. When you look at amateur clubs like Siddal, King Cross Park, Elland in Halifax. Queens, East Leeds, Stanningley in Leeds. St Pats, St Judes etc in Wigan, Leigh East & Leigh Miners and the strength and success they have, no Huddersfield team matches that really. Every club suffers from soccer, but Huddersfield Town are hardly a big team and its been decades since they have mixed it with the top teams. Huddersfield face a much tougher job to get the fans in, than places with a stronger amateur scene and where Rugby has a stronger attraction to many of the people in places like Hull, Wigan, St.Helens, Leeds.

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Huddersfield not a rugby town? The game was born there. Huddersfield teams dominated RL up to the early sixties, then the malaise that infected all RL  took hold at Fartown.  They had fifty years of failure and this is reflected in their fan base today. A few more years of reasonable perfomances and one or two successes will change that. (look at Warrington)  Wigan is a soccer town, but it's not really Wigan Athletic who are the problem, it's Liverpool. Everton, Bolton, Blackburn, Man U and Man C. Among soccer supporters in Wigan following Athletic is a minority pursuit - again because of their only having been in the league for about 30 years. I think Leeds have taken excellent advantage of Leeds U's doldrums to claw back some of their lost support. Hopefully it will continue into the future. I can remember the pre Revie days when Leeds U were just another struggling 2nd Division side, and Hunslet drew good crowds to Parkside, were Championship & Challange Cup finalists.  IMO it's Hunslet who were the real sufferers from the rise of Leeds U. in the sixties and seventies  and they've never recovered.

Both Huddersfield and Bradford are not strong Rugby areas. Yes they have old pro clubs there, but the game has not really had a strong base there for decades, if at all. Leeds, Hull , Wigan whilst having Big football teams or ones that have been in the top division, have and usually have had a strong amateur club scene in the area. Huddersfield for example, does not have that strong an amateur scene and never has had compared to other areas. Halifax, Oldham and Leigh have a much stronger amateur scene and are more known as rugby areas. When you look at amateur clubs like Siddal, King Cross Park, Elland in Halifax. Queens, East Leeds, Stanningley in Leeds. St Pats, St Judes etc in Wigan, Leigh East & Leigh Miners and the strength and success they have, no Huddersfield team matches that really. Every club suffers from soccer, but Huddersfield Town are hardly a big team and its been decades since they have mixed it with the top teams. Huddersfield face a much tougher job to get the fans in, than places with a stronger amateur scene and where Rugby has a stronger attraction to many of the people in places like Hull, Wigan, St.Helens, Leeds.

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Both Huddersfield and Bradford are not strong Rugby areas. Yes they have old pro clubs there, but the game has not really had a strong base there for decades, if at all. Leeds, Hull , Wigan whilst having Big football teams or ones that have been in the top division, have and usually have had a strong amateur club scene in the area. Huddersfield for example, does not have that strong an amateur scene and never has had compared to other areas. Halifax, Oldham and Leigh have a much stronger amateur scene and are more known as rugby areas.

You know your amateur stuff so I'm not going to argue with you.

But in the SL club top 25 players I can find 7 Huddersfield born lads, 7 Bradford born lads and 4 Halifax lads.

None of these clubs generate enough local professionals or crowds to compete as top SL clubs so it's back to the old Mo Lyndsay problem. Too many clubs in too small an area.

If ever only one club in the area were to be allowed an SL place it'd be the one at Odsal IMHO

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Hull Kingston Rovers chairman Neil Hudgell is to step down at Craven Park at the end of the season.

In the wake of his side's record 84-6 Easter defeat by Super League leaders Wigan, Hudgell no longer believes that the current board have the resources to take Rovers to the next step.

"The penny's dropped," Hudgell told BBC Radio Humberside. "I can't achieve the ambition I want for the club.

"Why should we lump in effectively half a million a year just to stand still?"

“When we took over, our ambition was to make the club successful and win trophies, to make it the same as it was in the mid-1980s when we were the most successful club in the British game.. If I can't do that then it's time to walk away”

Hudgell insists that this season will be his last after nine years' service to the club.

"Success to other people might be to get into Super League, or just survive in Super League and try to make the play-offs.

"But, when we took over, our ambition was to make the club successful and win trophies, to make it the same as it was in the mid-1980s when we were the most successful club in the British game.

"After nine years, if I can't do that then it's time to walk away. All our money does is service debt.

"There's been a feeling and realisation over the last couple of years that we were starting to hit a bit of a glass ceiling.

"If you compare ourselves with the really top clubs, there's a gulf in facilities and resources and fan base.

So there you have it, he doesn't feel the club have adequate resources. OK another rich man can keep it going by making up the resource shortfall with money, but Super League clubs need more than propping up.

Same situation at Castleford, and Ken Davey also lamenting his position of having to prop up Fartown, and Widnes are no different.

So it's a crucial point in the history of our great game

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I don't seem able to quote with replies but Maximus said "The wealthy benefactor model is never going to be sustainable". I disagree with this. How do we think small market teams in the US survive and even prosper? (San Antonio Spurs, Green Bay Packers etc.) The secret is making the SL versions more attractive to people like Hudgell. He's disgruntled, Davy's disgruntled, O'Connor's disgruntled. There’s a trend here and it doesn’t take a genius to figure out what’s wrong. We’re asking these benefactors to over-spend on their teams in light of past financial woes and hierarchical hurdles not of their making. I doubt any of them expected it to be easy but they’re finding out the hard way that it’s much more of an uphill task than they thought. And I sympathise with them, whilst also thinking the game would be making a grave mistake in letting their like walk away.

We have a new benefactor in the game in the form of Dr Koukash and I’d be very interested in his views on the 3 clubs I’ve mentioned. My guess would be that despite his desire to acquire an SL team (any SL team – he had no links with Salford) he would have been less enamoured with those 3 than Salford as with Salford he had a shiny new stadium and a huge latent fanbase to go after. It will be easier to succeed there than for Hudgell, Davy or O’Connor at their clubs. The RFL can sanction the sale of a club like Salford and then just let the owner get on with it. If you succeed, well done. If not, too bad. Someone else will likely come along thinking they can do better. The same is obviously true of clubs like Leeds, St Helens & Wigan. I think prospective owners of teams like Hull KR, Hudds and Widnes need more of a carrot and more return on their investment personally. The "small market dividend" I’ve hinted at numerous times or some other direct funding or leveling measure to help their own money go further. It’s too much of a labour of love taking on these heartland clubs with limited (but nonetheless decent) latent fanbases. Hudgell has spent a lot of cash on youth development at HKR. What’s the upshot? Our best kid was cherry-picked (pun intended) by the ruling elite Wigan with ease and he didn’t even get to sit down with him and offer him terms. He’s spent money on a new stand. What’s happened? The council and developer have let him down, costing him yet more money. He’s funded a full cap spend for about 6 years to the tune of £3 million (I believe) to himself. What’s happened? He’s found that it takes more than that to get amongst the incumbent elite and that attracting the best players in large numbers to an unfashionable club is a mighty hurdle to overcome. All of these factors add up. Hudgell is no different from Hetherington, McManus, Lenagan et al, he just happens to have backed the wrong pony, whilst they’ve taken over - through no skill on their part whatsoever - established thoroughbreds. The question is whether that’s his fault or rather something more indicative of the climate we expect these moderate clubs coming out of decades of decay and under-funding to now exist and compete in. My view personally is that it’s the latter. You can pick 13 existing clubs from an old P&R system with bedded-in hierarchies, add the expansion Catalan, pull up the drawbridge and call your league "Super League" but it doesn’t mean you instantly have 14 healthy clubs. Old problems remain. Why should Hudgell, Davy & O’Connor uniquely foot the bill for these old problems? Are they not the wider game’s responsibility?

There are 6 or 7 clubs in SL that are and always will be very attractive to investors (you can include London in this group) but then at least as many that no sensible businessman/woman would invest in given current conditions, either to make a return or (like Dr K) to attempt to win trophies. But that isn’t to say we can’t attract their investment. We can change the conditions to make those clubs as attractive to invest in as the ruling elite sides and in Hudgell’s own words (with regard to London’s development) "make no apologies for doing so". If this is some extra cash from a combined pool creamed off the big boys, so be it.

Hudgell isn’t perfect and I don’t agree with everything he says but he’s as valuable to our sport as Koukash, Hetherington, McManus, Lenagan and the rest and every lost benefactor is a hammer blow for our elite league. If he does make good on his threat to bail this has to be a huge wake-up call for Super League, because there is no glut of money men lining up to to invest in HKR, Hudds and Widnes and ultimately we need these guys on board for these teams - and thus the league as a whole - to be healthy.

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As for Hudgell's statement - he's made this kind of comment before, of course, and it could be a clever way to make the RFL sit up and take notice of what I'm saying above. If he could combine his view with the likes of Davy & O'Connor it would certainly be a very powerful message and one that neither the RFL nor the more powerful sides' owners could ignore or discredit.

The small market sides have more power than they think but need a conjoined approach.

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I don't seem able to quote with replies but Maximus said "The wealthy benefactor model is never going to be sustainable". I disagree with this. How do we think small market teams in the US survive and even prosper? (San Antonio Spurs, Green Bay Packers etc.)

 

Just to be clear, the San Antonio Spurs are regarded as one of the best run sports franchises in America and have only once posted an annual loss in the last decade. They are also based in a city with a metro area of over 2 million people with no competition from any of the other major sports leagues. They do not survive on a wealthy benefactor model.

The Green Bay Packers are publicly owned by a nonprofit corporation with specific rules that do not allow anyone to own over 4% of the shares to specifically prevent any individual taking control. They do not survive on a wealthy benefactor model.

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You know your amateur stuff so I'm not going to argue with you.

But in the SL club top 25 players I can find 7 Huddersfield born lads, 7 Bradford born lads and 4 Halifax lads.

None of these clubs generate enough local professionals or crowds to compete as top SL clubs so it's back to the old Mo Lyndsay problem. Too many clubs in too small an area.

If ever only one club in the area were to be allowed an SL place it'd be the one at Odsal IMHO

 

How many Melbourne lads are in the Storm team ? I don't think it's very many and they have been champions twice and league leaders on another occasion before they were deducted all their league points.

 

Whilst it's important to develop local players it's not immediately important for success.

 

Of the local Hudersfield players are there not several who are England internationals. When did Lyndsay become the prophet for all future RL progress.? He was just a follower of Murdoch  Didn't he run Wigan into near bankruptcy? His one big idea was Paris, how many local players were in that team? It could be argued that he ruined the rest of French RL by making them play for Paris and their local club. In just the same way by marginalising all teams not amongst the anointed in SL, it could be argued he started the slow decline of RL which we are discussing here.

 

The SL might be a marginally successul operation but the neutering of all the other teams has resulted a large loss of fan base numerically and the future fans, kids, who used to come to the game from these areas. I was one, but Keighley were getting three times as many fans then as now and 5 times as many later in Cougarmania days.

 

Where is the games future fan base from the 700 or so who currently constitute their supporters.?

 

Oh by the way, Dewsbury did quadruple their support  when they won the league. They were in the 3 to 4,000 range and several years earlier, before that talented team, headlined by the two Stephensons, was assembled. their crowds were numbered in the hundreds. I know, I used to watch Keighley at Crown Flatt. The trouble was, as at Bradford and lLeds they flatlined and could not increase further, probably due to the small size of the town.

 

As for making Odsal the ground a a single West Yorkshire franchise. Not without many millions of pounds of investment. It's old and tired.

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How many Melbourne lads are in the Storm team ? I don't think it's very many and they have been champions twice and league leaders on another occasion before they were deducted all their league points.

 

Whilst it's important to develop local players it's not immediately important for success.

 

Of the local Hudersfield players are there not several who are England internationals. When did Lyndsay become the prophet for all future RL progress.? He was just a follower of Murdoch  Didn't he run Wigan into near bankruptcy? His one big idea was Paris, how many local players were in that team? It could be argued that he ruined the rest of French RL by making them play for Paris and their local club. In just the same way by marginalising all teams not amongst the anointed in SL, it could be argued he started the slow decline of RL which we are discussing here.

 

The SL might be a marginally successul operation but the neutering of all the other teams has resulted a large loss of fan base numerically and the future fans, kids, who used to come to the game from these areas. I was one, but Keighley were getting three times as many fans then as now and 5 times as many later in Cougarmania days.

 

Where is the games future fan base from the 700 or so who currently constitute their supporters.?

 

Oh by the way, Dewsbury did quadruple their support  when they won the league. They were in the 3 to 4,000 range and several years earlier, before that talented team, headlined by the two Stephensons, was assembled. their crowds were numbered in the hundreds. I know, I used to watch Keighley at Crown Flatt. The trouble was, as at Bradford and lLeds they flatlined and could not increase further, probably due to the small size of the town.

 

As for making Odsal the ground a a single West Yorkshire franchise. Not without many millions of pounds of investment. It's old and tired.

It cannot be asserted that there has been a net loss of attending fans. I agree that the spread has shrunk and it is now concentrated in smaller pockets but I suspect if you did the maths you would see that the bigger clubs have in many respects made up for it.

I suspect we have fewer fans casually following the game. When we used to have 30 odd clubs getting low to medium crowds most of these clubs had a greater potential to draw a large crowd from the surrounding area when they had a big Challenge Cup game. Nowadays, the decline of the CC as a draw has seen this stop, leaving just the few hundred fans that regularly follow them.

I'm not blaming anyone for this, I think it is an inevitability of full-time professionalism and the appeal of bigger sports.

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It cannot be asserted that there has been a net loss of attending fans. I agree that the spread has shrunk and it is now concentrated in smaller pockets but I suspect if you did the maths you would see that the bigger clubs have in many respects made up for it.

I suspect we have fewer fans casually following the game. When we used to have 30 odd clubs getting low to medium crowds most of these clubs had a greater potential to draw a large crowd from the surrounding area when they had a big Challenge Cup game. Nowadays, the decline of the CC as a draw has seen this stop, leaving just the few hundred fans that regularly follow them.

I'm not blaming anyone for this, I think it is an inevitability of full-time professionalism and the appeal of bigger sports.

 

I do not disagree with you and comparisons are difficult because in the late 60's and early 70's the game was literally dying. huge swathes of support drifted away or died and there were no replacements forthcoming, the kids, the future supporters, abandoned the game.

 

Fast forward to now and ceratinly SL attendances are very good but the net loss, I think is still there, as the lower tiers are leaking fans. I think the game has gambled on the all the eggs in the SL basket model without ever changing the constituent members or by making such change virtually impossible. i think this is a mistake. The game should not be losing support in Halifax, Cumbria, Oldham, Rochdale. there needs to be a wider fan base than provided by the SL and there are attempts afoot to make this SL base even smaller. A tree wtihout widespread roots will fall in any decent windstorm.

 

Hopefully, P and r will be resetablished and the older, stronger areas of RL will regain some strength, Oldham, Cumbria and also the new expansion teams will put down some strong roots and increase the spread of the RL community.

 

The bigger sports you speak of embrace changing the water at the top level and mnore teams are successful in their games as a result.

 

One thing is for sure, the recent steep drop in SL attendances a very worrying.

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Isn't a drop in attendances affecting all sports? Including the Premier League?

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Isn't a drop in attendances affecting all sports? Including the Premier League?

 

I don't know but RL has no wiggle room. the game simply cannot be sustained of the fan base continues to shrink.

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1. When did Lyndsay become the prophet for all future RL progress.?

 

2. The SL might be a marginally successul operation but the neutering of all the other teams has resulted a large loss of fan base numerically.

3. Oh by the way, Dewsbury did quadruple their support  when they won the league. They were in the 3 to 4,000 range and several years earlier, before that talented team, headlined by the two Stephensons, was assembled. their crowds were numbered in the hundreds. I know, I used to watch Keighley at Crown Flatt.

That was quite a rant my old friend, sorry if I "got your goat" again.

1. Nobody especially me has said Mo was a prophet. All I ever say was he recognised what would happen to the clubs if they all tried to go it alone under modern economic conditions. Just because it's taken 17 years for his prediction to finally materialise doesn't make him a prophet. Just a smart businessman who said his piece and was ignored.

2. I'm sorry but the """neutering"" of the teams "other than" Superleague ones hasn't resulted in a large loss of the fan base.

Why do you say this ridiculous thing??

More people watch Rugby league in 2013 than did so in 1996. Thousands more.

3. I used to watch clubs at the same time as you and I remember as clear as daylight that Mick Lumb was cheesed off that Dewsbury's success (one championship win BTW) did not increase the clubs bread and butter league crowds by much at all.

your way out on the 3000-4000 for league games..... they got far less than that in the main. For cup games they got crowds of 9000 (Halifax) 10,000 (Leeds) and 13,000 (Wakefield).

Cup games really did it for fans in those days.

But Lumb resented the bread and butter crowds of "only" 1500.

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As for Hudgell's statement - he's made this kind of comment before, of course, and it could be a clever way to make the RFL sit up and take notice of what I'm saying above. If he could combine his view with the likes of Davy & O'Connor it would certainly be a very powerful message and one that neither the RFL nor the more powerful sides' owners could ignore or discredit.The small market sides have more power than they think but need a conjoined approach.

This is a great post IMHO. He's threatening to take his ball home and if others follow who do the bigger clubs have left to have a decent game with.

It's not a pleasant thought that Superleague ever goes back to clubs playing each other three times.....to start with! Contraction can be good business but only up to a point.

Beyond that its purely shrinking away to nothing.

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Hopefully, P and r will be re-established and the older, stronger areas of RL will regain some strength, Oldham, Cumbria and also the new expansion teams will put down some strong roots and increase the spread of the RL community.

This wishful thinking stuff really gets my goat.

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1. Maximus said "The wealthy benefactor model is never going to be sustainable". I disagree with this. The secret is making the SL versions more attractive to people like Hudgell. He's disgruntled, Davy's disgruntled, O'Connor's disgruntled. There’s a trend here and it doesn’t take a genius to figure out what’s wrong. We’re asking these benefactors to over-spend on their teams in light of past financial woes and hierarchical hurdles not of their making. I doubt any of them expected it to be easy but they’re finding out the hard way that it’s much more of an uphill task than they thought. And I sympathise with them, whilst also thinking the game would be making a grave mistake in letting their like walk away.

2. I think prospective owners of teams like Hull KR, Hudds and Widnes need more of a carrot and more return on their investment personally. The "small market dividend" I’ve hinted at numerous times or some other direct funding or leveling measure to help their own money go further. It’s too much of a labour of love taking on these heartland clubs with limited (but nonetheless decent) latent fanbases. Hudgell has spent a lot of cash on youth development at HKR. What’s the upshot? Our best kid was cherry-picked (pun intended) by the ruling elite Wigan with ease and he didn’t even get to sit down with him and offer him terms. He’s spent money on a new stand. What’s happened? The council and developer have let him down, costing him yet more money. He’s funded a full cap spend for about 6 years to the tune of £3 million (I believe) to himself. What’s happened? He’s found that it takes more than that to get amongst the incumbent elite and that attracting the best players in large numbers to an unfashionable club is a mighty hurdle to overcome. All of these factors add up. Hudgell is no different from Hetherington, McManus, Lenagan et al, he just happens to have backed the wrong pony, whilst they’ve taken over - through no skill on their part whatsoever - established thoroughbreds. The question is whether that’s his fault or rather something more indicative of the climate we expect these moderate clubs coming out of decades of decay and under-funding to now exist and compete in.

My view personally is that it’s the latter. You can pick 13 existing clubs from an old P&R system with bedded-in hierarchies, add the expansion Catalan, pull up the drawbridge and call your league "Super League" but it doesn’t mean you instantly have 14 healthy clubs. Old problems remain. Why should Hudgell, Davy & O’Connor uniquely foot the bill for these old problems? Are they not the wider game’s responsibility?

1. A stunning analysis DSK, quote of the year so far.

How do I square this truly perceptive (no joke - it is perceptive IMHO) analysis with your accusation that when I say anything about Hull/HKR I am "Hull bashing" and I should "give it a rest"???

How quickly you have travelled from the truly ridiculous to the sublime.

2. Another super analysis but you ask "Why should Hudgell, Davy & O’Connor uniquely foot the bill for these old problems?"

They SHOULD IMHO foot the bill because they know exactly what the hierarchy of the game attempted to do in 1996 which was reduce the number of clubs to leave one big club in each of the areas RL had a chance of succeeding in. This was because as Mo pointed out there were too many clubs chasing too few resources in most RL areas.

Davey was at Huddersfield Town and his missus loved the rugby so instead of buying her a season ticket like you or I would do with our spouses he bought her the club. Wouldn't it have been better for the game if Davey had become the rich owner the truly mighty Bulls never had??

Instead he fights for fans and players with the Bulls and neither will probably ever win anything again...

O'Connor is a Widnes fan who probably followed their fortunes from turning over Wire at Wembley in 1975 to that great day at Old Trafford when they became world champions. I wuz there for both games. Which Widnes fan would not want to turn the clock back.

But is this all it is? Is O'Connor trying to take Superleague forward or just wanting to recreate the past. I can't think anyone would want to spend a few million on helping Superleague to prosper, I can think of many rich people who want self gratification.

Maybe I should win the lottery rebuild Hunslet's SLS to a 10,000 seater and fight Leeds for every fan and junior in the city. Then when I start to struggle I should cry to the RFL/SLE that I am valuable to the future of Rugby League and should be given a break.

And what of Hudgell?

Is he in the game with his millions to build Superleague to the benefit of all his fellow chairmen? Is he a true RL philanthropist or does he want to just outdo his old boyhood rivals??

Blame the Wigans of this game all you want, but the reality is that the reason why HKR can't build a self sustaining crowd is that 12,000 Hull people support another club. The reason he can't hang onto his stars is that the local rival club covet all the best he has. Hull wanted Taylor too.

But somehow it's all Wigans fault.....

From the ridiculous to the sublime and back again Keeny?

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What will Wigan, Saints and Leeds do when everyone else is gone?

Go to Union?

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What will Wigan, Saints and Leeds do when everyone else is gone?

Go to Union?

Maybe.....

Leeds added Leeds RU, Wigan looked to Orrell, Wire were connected with Sale, Bradford looked to Wakefield RU, Quins allowed RL into their fortress. etc etc.

If circumstances dictate why not?

Only tired old prejudices from tired old men would stand in the way..

Hardly a barrier................

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And exactly which of those experiments played out?

How about some genuinely radical thinking in RL

Like all playing contracts held by the RFL, all gate money's collected centrally and distributed evenly?

FWIW Ken Davey took over at Huddersfield because he was amazed at the honestly of the game, its fans and players. I think in the first years of his ownership (and Huddersfield in SL) he was also very, very naive and has suggested as much himself - I don't think it is fair to say he knew what the situation was when he became involved and didn't find out just how bad things were until he was in hook line and sinker

I suspect that he assumed that because the game itself was honest, it's administrators and directors were too - and got burned

Maybe that memory is coming back, that some clubs wield all the power and influence the game only for their benefit instead of the game as a whole - same as they have always done?

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And exactly which of those experiments played out?

How about some genuinely radical thinking in RL

Like all playing contracts held by the RFL, all gate money's collected centrally and distributed evenly?

They never played them out. The clubs merely got into a position to switch to RU if it came to it.

It didn't, and I like your "radical thinking" but there's a limit as to how much of a clubs money another can take for doing nothing.

The clubs need a joint business plan, they don't need to turn the top clubs into charities for the bottom ones.

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I totally agree - there needs to be a joint, unified and possibly very hard hearted look at how we protect and grow the game

Personally I think we need to push international RL over all else

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How about some genuinely radical thinking in RL

Like all playing contracts held by the RFL, all gate money's collected centrally and distributed evenly?

 

So what would be the motivation for Wigan, Leeds, Saints and Warrington to bring extra revenue in to their club, when they'd only get, what 7p for every pound extra they bring in?

 

Communism doesn't work it doesn't make businesses want to make money, it removes the reward, but doesn't remove the risk, and tends to leave things in a downward spiral. I've frequently said all clubs need to up their game in terms of how they market themselves. This is sadly still true. We need the clubs to be run by people who understand business and people and how to get them involved.

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Rugby League World - April 2017

League Express - Mon 10th April 2017