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bedlam breakout

our international team almost 20 years on

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The defence for that try was truly shocking.

If so, then the GB team the year before - not too mention the club sides - produced more than their fair share of "shocking" tackles against the likes of Eric Grothe.

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If so, then the GB team the year before - not too mention the club sides - produced more than their fair share of "shocking" tackles against the likes of Eric Grothe.

  I'm not saying they didn't. There must be better examples of Grothe's prowess than that. Do you think it was good defence? If your team tackled like that would you be happy?

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I'm not saying they didn't. There must be better examples of Grothe's prowess than that. Do you think it was good defence? If your team tackled like that would you be happy?

Sometimes tackles are missed not because they are bad tackles or bad tacklers, but because the attacker just might happen to be more talented. Precisely because I saw Eric Grothe destroy the likes of Des Drummond the year before on the 1982 Kangaroo tour - played 22, won 22 - I recognise the above clip as an example of Grothe's genius rather than as a series of "shocking" tackles.

I wasn't happy to see Grothe and Meninga and Pearce and Kenny and Sterling destoy GB - but, in retrospect, I am very happy to have seen Tests featuring perhaps the sport's most legendary touring team of all.

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I'm not saying they didn't. There must be better examples of Grothe's prowess than that. Do you think it was good defence? If your team tackled like that would you be happy?

There are not many videos of decent quality of Grothe around.

There is a far grainier version of this where Grothe commentates and says it was no big deal he came inside and went against the grain and just went over.

I remember seeing this try at the time and it looked like he beat half of the team to get there.

On the second clip O'Conner said he saw Grothe looming up in cover and ###### himself and give it a last spurt to get over the line.

In full flight he was a monster in the mold of Inglis.

He ran down the sideline for Leeds in one game shrugging off plenty of defense from inside his own half to score.

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There are not many videos of decent quality of Grothe around.

 

 

 

isn't there one of him playing for Parra, I think at the SCG, where he shoots down the left wing and fends a couple of would be tacklers off on a sixty(?) metre run? 

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isn't there one of him playing for Parra, I think at the SCG, where he shoots down the left wing and fends a couple of would be tacklers off on a sixty(?) metre run?

This one?

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Probably, a little further and less would be tacklers than I remember. You'll be old one day AC ;)

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Probably, a little further and less would be tacklers than I remember. You'll be old one day AC ;)

I am old now Mate,

I was at "Cumberland Stadium" when Brett Kenny got the "Rookie" of the year award after that seasons last game at home.

:-)

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I doubt Hall would be within a second of Offiah over 100 yards.

Who said Hall is the best finisher in the World? his team mates? "WBW" he must cringe every time he hears that nickname.

Who's a better winger than Hall? And there isn't much point in debating speeds of both players unless they both have recorded 100m times.

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For an example of Hall breaking tackles (and more) ask Billy Slater! The fact that a lot of his tries are over a shorter distance than Offiah is Leeds using his strength in the most effective manner.

World's best Winger? Well everyone's got their own criteria and personal favourites, but he's up there with the best.

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Who's a better winger than Hall? And there isn't much point in debating speeds of both players unless they both have recorded 100m times.

Brett Morris 11 tries 11 tests

Jharal Yow Yeh 3 tries 3 Tests

Manu Vatuvei 13 tries 20 Tests

Ryan Hall 8 tries 11 Tests. 6 of those games were against France, Wales or PNG, 4 tries against Oz or NZ and 4 against France or Wales.

Whuppiddy doo, it may as well have been a Local Club team.

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For an example of Hall breaking tackles (and more) ask Billy Slater! The fact that a lot of his tries are over a shorter distance than Offiah is Leeds using his strength in the most effective manner. World's best Winger? Well everyone's got their own criteria and personal favourites, but he's up there with the best.

I am missing something in the translation Mate.

With the WBW Worlds Best Winger thing? that's an embarrassing title, well it would be in Australia.

If Thurston was called WBHB by his team mates he would tell them to get the .... out of there.

Plenty of Players are the best in the game at any given point, that point changes all of the time.

Being the best for a long period earns the respect and title of being the Worlds best.

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I am missing something in the translation Mate.

It's in English, if that helps. ;) Maybe I could find a translation here.

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Shock horror,Aussie not rating English player.

I rate plenty of English players Terry.

I rate Gareth Widdop big time.

I rate Sam Burgess, more so if he lost his ugly side to his game.

Graham is a fantastic player

Ellis did well in his time at the Tigers, he got praised above and beyond what he did but that's ok, he was a novelty.

One of the few players that went backwards at Test level after being the "Star" in his team in the NRL.

I have no issue with English players, I still do not realize what Ryan Hall has that makes him special, he is a big lad that runs at the line.

Thats great.

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It's in English, if that helps. ;) Maybe I could find a translation here.

Ok

I get what you are saying.

I do not Rate Ryan Hall more than the average Club Winger, just my opinion.

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Brett Morris 11 tries 11 tests

Jharal Yow Yeh 3 tries 3 Tests

Manu Vatuvei 13 tries 20 Tests

Ryan Hall 8 tries 11 Tests. 6 of those games were against France, Wales or PNG, 4 tries against Oz or NZ and 4 against France or Wales.

Whuppiddy doo, it may as well have been a Local Club team.

 

And England do not have a world class centre or halfback. How do you think Hall would do of he were playing in the Australian or even NZ international team.? To have scored tries against Australia in both the last four nations games, both of whixh needed some world class finishing is testamanet to his ability. If he were in a team of australia's class, I think he would be even mnolre exceptional.

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I rate plenty of English players Terry.

I rate Gareth Widdop big time.

I rate Sam Burgess, more so if he lost his ugly side to his game.

Graham is a fantastic player

Ellis did well in his time at the Tigers, he got praised above and beyond what he did but that's ok, he was a novelty.

One of the few players that went backwards at Test level after being the "Star" in his team in the NRL.

I have no issue with English players, I still do not realize what Ryan Hall has that makes him special, he is a big lad that runs at the line.

Thats great.

So you only rate them when they play in the NRL.Again,shock horror.

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Offiah was world class

Also someone put that his defence was weak, true he didnt make a lot of tackles but not many people go tround him either

In fact at test level his defence was good

Its a mark of how good he was that people continually bring up one off occasions when some one caught him or he got tackled

Watch the videos again, he was class

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Brett Morris 11 tries 11 tests

Jharal Yow Yeh 3 tries 3 Tests

Manu Vatuvei 13 tries 20 Tests

Ryan Hall 8 tries 11 Tests. 6 of those games were against France, Wales or PNG, 4 tries against Oz or NZ and 4 against France or Wales.

Whuppiddy doo, it may as well have been a Local Club team.

Were Morris and Yow Yeh's tries against nations who are better than the Aussies?

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Offiah was probably the most exciting player of my lifetime. However, I seriously doubt the impact he would have on the game today. It has changed so much. When Offiah scored his 45 tries in a single season, on average there was just over 42 points a game scored in the top division.

Since the start of Super League only two players (Vainakolo and Charnley) has topped the try scoring charts with more than 30 tries in a season. Most end somewhere in the 20's and have even been under 20. This is made all the more remarkable since there are now on average more points scored per game, 53 being last season's total. Therefore, if Offiah played today and he took the same percentage of points as he did, he would have ended the year on 56 tries!

He was good but I think it suggests that the game has changed too. Teams certainly seem to ship it out to the wing less often than they used to and defences have inevitably become better and more structured.

I don't think it is just age that accounts for him moving from easily more than a try a game to less than 1 in 2 in his later years.

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The quality of his centre partners dropped - as he himself admits had much to do with his scoring success

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Brett Morris 11 tries 11 tests

Jharal Yow Yeh 3 tries 3 Tests

Manu Vatuvei 13 tries 20 Tests

Ryan Hall 8 tries 11 Tests. 6 of those games were against France, Wales or PNG, 4 tries against Oz or NZ and 4 against France or Wales.

Whuppiddy doo, it may as well have been a Local Club team.

Right he's played 6 games against Aus v Kiwis let's take a look at those results and how many tries Ryan Hall was involved in.

England lost 26 - 16 v Aus Hall 0/3

England won 20 - 12 v NZ Hall 0/3

England lost 46 - 16 v Aus Hall 0/3

This is in 09 when hall was not considered anywhere near the world's best player to be fair.

Hall didn't play against Aus/Kiwis in 2010.

2011 4N

England lost 36 - 20 to Aus Hall 2/4

England Won 20 - 12 against NZ hall 1/5

England Lost 30 - 8 against Aus hall 1/1

Right so most of the time Hall plays he has been on the losing side. Nothing to do with his ability just due to being in a worse side. This decade hall has scored 40% of England's tries against Aus/Kiwis, that's not a bad record. No other player will have a record like this.

He also scored twice against Aus opposition in WCC, but your bias will say these shouldnt count as they were WCC.

Also Halls tries were class in his games against Aus, they were world class. He has proven himself against the world's best in the last 3 years and can finish better than any Aussie. Just because he's not Australian or play in the NRL doesn't mean he can't be the best in the world in his position.

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Brett Morris 11 tries 11 tests

Jharal Yow Yeh 3 tries 3 Tests

Manu Vatuvei 13 tries 20 Tests

Ryan Hall 8 tries 11 Tests. 6 of those games were against France, Wales or PNG, 4 tries against Oz or NZ and 4 against France or Wales.

Whuppiddy doo, it may as well have been a Local Club team.

 

I'll agree that Brett Morris is a good player, but Yow Yeh is nothing more than a good club man, and Manu Vatuvei, someone I always enjoy watching, can still be a bit of a liability in defence. Classing anyone as 'worlds best' is just a matter of opinion anyway, but I'd say Ryan Hall is certainly one of the best at the moment.

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