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Bedford Roughyed

Thatcher - Has passed away.

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see http://www.lawscot.org.uk/news/press-releases/2013/april/law-society-warns-court-closures-threaten-access-to-justice--(1)

 

and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21666224

 

but you are right. She never got to grips with the police, the lawyers and the doctors, so it's their turn now...and the don't like it up 'em, either. Still their leaders haven't tried to undermine a democratically elected government...yet...mainly cos the govt and opposition is stuffed with the buggers...and the Police Federation are having a go at the moment. in their own small way.

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see http://www.lawscot.org.uk/news/press-releases/2013/april/law-society-warns-court-closures-threaten-access-to-justice--(1)

 

and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21666224

 

but you are right. She never got to grips with the police, the lawyers and the doctors, so it's their turn now...and the don't like it up 'em, either. Still their leaders haven't tried to undermine a democratically elected government...yet...mainly cos the govt and opposition is stuffed with the buggers...and the Police Federation are having a go at the moment. in their own small way.

 

 

see http://www.lawscot.org.uk/news/press-releases/2013/april/law-society-warns-court-closures-threaten-access-to-justice--(1)

 

and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21666224

 

but you are right. She never got to grips with the police, the lawyers and the doctors, so it's their turn now...and the don't like it up 'em, either. Still their leaders haven't tried to undermine a democratically elected government...yet...mainly cos the govt and opposition is stuffed with the buggers...and the Police Federation are having a go at the moment. in their own small way.

well there was the 1918 and 1919 police strike

the reds under the bed debacle during wilson's time

the invergordon mutiny

 

but generally the police tend to be kept sweet, just as they were before and during the strike.

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I said in a previous discussion before her death that when it came, I would raise a glass and reflect quietly on life under her rule. That ws sufficient, but only just.

If you didn't experience her 'rule' then how can you reflect upon it?  At best you are reflecting upon someone else's narrative of it, which is not the same thing at all.

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If you didn't experience her 'rule' then how can you reflect upon it? At best you are reflecting upon someone else's narrative of it, which is not the same thing at all.

I hope you aren't a history teacher

Edit

Every year at eleven am on November the eleventh I stop what I'm doing and pause to reflect

I wasn't involved in world war 1 but my grandfather was

I wasn't involved in world war 2 but my father and my uncles were: at least one being traumatised by the experience for the rest of his life

This is because I wasn't born yet

I was a baby in the Korean War

My cousin led did tours in Northern Ireland

And there have been the Falklands, Iraqs one and two, Bosnia and Afghanistan since. None of which I was involved in

My minutes reflection on 11.11 means a lot to

Me

Am I not entitled to it? It would appear so according to your logic

Of course we are allowed to have emotions and opinions about events that we weren't directly or even indirectly involved with: we'd be nihilist and self serving otherwise

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how often have they had to.

I don't recall there being wholesale court house closures, or pay cuts and redundancies  for barristers.

It's nothing to do with whether they have had to. They don't have that power.

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It's nothing to do with whether they have had to. They don't have that power.

I'm sure if the need arose something could be arranged

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'worth' is a value judgement.

She maybe 'worthy' in your eyes, but not in others: which was my point.

I'm still a bit confused about your thoughts on having had to have experienced history to qualify to comment upon it.

Exactly, I suppose some people on here think that anybody who claims Hitler or Stalin were nasty pieces of work are wrong because they didn't experience these regimes.

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I hope you aren't a history teacher

Edit

Every year at eleven am on November the eleventh I stop what I'm doing and pause to reflect

I wasn't involved in world war 1 but my grandfather was

I wasn't involved in world war 2 but my father and my uncles were: at least one being traumatised by the experience for the rest of his life

This is because I wasn't born yet

I was a baby in the Korean War

My cousin led did tours in Northern Ireland

And there have been the Falklands, Iraqs one and two, Bosnia and Afghanistan since. None of which I was involved in

My minutes reflection on 11.11 means a lot to

Me

Am I not entitled to it? It would appear so according to your logic

Of course we are allowed to have emotions and opinions about events that we weren't directly or even indirectly involved with: we'd be nihilist and self serving otherwise

Since you directly referred to 'life under her rule', which is an experience, when you actually hadn't experienced 'life under her rule' means you would only ever be reflecting upon someone else's narrative of life under her rule. 

 

In short, just as I have no idea what life was like in the second world war, because I wasn't alive then, you don't have any idea of what life was like under Margaret Thatcher, so why on earth you would raise a glass at her death I have no idea.  It's not only meaningless, since you had no direct experience of life when she was PM, but it's frankly odd.

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Exactly, I suppose some people on here think that anybody who claims Hitler or Stalin were nasty pieces of work are wrong because they didn't experience these regimes.

But you are not claiming to be reflecting upon 'life under Hitler' or 'life under Stalin' are you?

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Since you directly referred to 'life under her rule', which is an experience, when you actually hadn't experienced 'life under her rule' means you would only ever be reflecting upon someone else's narrative of life under her rule.

In short, just as I have no idea what life was like in the second world war, because I wasn't alive then, you don't have any idea of what life was like under Margaret Thatcher, so why on earth you would raise a glass at her death I have no idea. It's not only meaningless, since you had no direct experience of life when she was PM, but it's frankly odd.

Yes but there are things like books that will provide narratives of any period of history. You can study these and make up your own mind as to the virtues of certain historical people.

Maybe if more people used this method to formulate their views rather than newspapers then we could get a bit if balance into the debate.

Oh for the record I started work at 16 in 1987, my family were always in good employment throughout the period in no way whatsoever did I or my family suffer under thatcher. But I still do not agree that her legacy was a good one.

I wasn't born under the Attle government but I am benefiting from the reforms that were introduced then ( as are you).

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I'm sure if the need arose something could be arranged

If the need was there then a trade union would be created.

 

Teachers have lots of trade unions, they also have a professional body.

 

One satisfied one perceived need and the other a completely different one.

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Since you directly referred to 'life under her rule', which is an experience, when you actually hadn't experienced 'life under her rule' means you would only ever be reflecting upon someone else's narrative of life under her rule.

In short, just as I have no idea what life was like in the second world war, because I wasn't alive then, you don't have any idea of what life was like under Margaret Thatcher, so why on earth you would raise a glass at her death I have no idea. It's not only meaningless, since you had no direct experience of life when she was PM, but it's frankly odd.

I helped to raise five children through the thatcher years

Saw my brothers health ruined in the aftermath of the miners strike

Buried my father a year into his retirement from the pit he was 65

I qualified as a psychiatric nurse during the thatcher government's betrayal of the people I was caring for

I returned to teaching in the youth justice system during her rule as youth crime soared

I was lucky

I was never unemployed. I did tough jobs, but jobs I believed in

My family turned out ok

Don't tell me I don't know what it was like then

I didn't raise a glass to her death: it means nothing to me

I raised a glass to having survived what she had to dish out and to my memories of those times and what they did to people I cared about.

If you have no idea about what life was like in the Second World War or the First World War literally no idea then check out your local war memorial as a starting point and take it from there. Ask yourself what wars do to people

Are you saying that because I wasn't alive during World War One and World War Two then it should have no impact emotionally on me or other people?

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Are you saying that because I wasn't alive during World War One and World War Two then it should have no impact emotionally on me or other people?

That's what the majority of her posts seam to be implying

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That's what the majority of her posts seam to be implying

as a former teacher I find it worrying that a member of my profession knows, understands, or feels nothing about such major events in fairly recent history events that shaped our lives to this day, events that are referred to visually when you walk the streets of almost any town, events that will one way or other have affected the lives of members of her family and community deeply only a generation or two ago

Such lack of curiosity and empathy from someone who's job it is to inspire those very things is very sad

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Enough!  This is going the way of many threads in the past when it's full of thinly disguised personal digs.

 

Stop now, please and keep on topic without the digs.

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@Martyn Sadler

 

Perhaps you right about misogyny. Glenda Jackson was embarrassing when she tried to suggest that Thatcher wasn't a woman. 

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Enough!  This is going the way of many threads in the past when it's full of thinly disguised personal digs.

 

Stop now, please and keep on topic without the digs.

 

 

Enough!  This is going the way of many threads in the past when it's full of thinly disguised personal digs.

 

Stop now, please and keep on topic without the digs.

I'm sorry craig but I disagree

 

its your call of course

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@Martyn Sadler

 

Perhaps you right about misogyny. Glenda Jackson was embarrassing when she tried to suggest that Thatcher wasn't a woman. 

 

 

@Martyn Sadler

 

Perhaps you right about misogyny. Glenda Jackson was embarrassing when she tried to suggest that Thatcher wasn't a woman. 

to be fair she didn't say that

she said she wasn't a woman on her terms.

 

Jackson's speech at least showed a bit of moral courage amongst all the ass kissing. Rifkind was particularly Uriah Heepish

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My bad.  I misread the post of yours that I originally replied to.  I thought you said that you had not experienced life under Thatcher, but in fact you were positing on behalf of those who had not experienced it.

 






Are you saying that because I wasn't alive during World War One and World War Two then it should have no impact emotionally on me or other people?

No.  I am saying that you cannot reflect on an experience that does not happen to you, at least not in the context of a discussion like this.  I do not know what it was like to experience life in the 1930s and therefore I cannot reflect upon experience of life in the 1930s.  However, obviously I can reflect upon what I see on TV or read or listen to, ie someone else's narrative.

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excellent

 

should be thrown in jail for having such thoughts.

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as a former teacher I find it worrying that a member of my profession knows, understands, or feels nothing about such major events in fairly recent history events that shaped our lives to this day, events that are referred to visually when you walk the streets of almost any town, events that will one way or other have affected the lives of members of her family and community deeply only a generation or two ago

Such lack of curiosity and empathy from someone who's job it is to inspire those very things is very sad

I would like to know how you know with such certainty that I know, understand or feel nothing about major events in history.  Exactly where have we discussed major events in history?  Exactly when have feelings been discussed?  And what do you know about my teaching?  And on what basis do you accuse me of having no curiosity or empathy?

 

No matter.  The questions were rhetorical.  You have no idea about me at all.

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to be fair she didn't say that

she said she wasn't a woman on her terms.

 

Jackson's speech at least showed a bit of moral courage amongst all the ass kissing. Rifkind was particularly Uriah Heepish

It was still embarrassing.

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excellent

 

should be thrown in jail for having such thoughts.

 

 

They're pretty mild compared to some that have been aired

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Discussing the Second World War, I know of an Austrian who lived through it and refuses to this day to visit Germany. For some, the hurt runs too deep with time no healer. Love her or hate her, Margaret Thatcher has certainly left her mark across the globe, and no doubt will still be reviled by some in decades to come. 

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