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Bedford Roughyed

Thatcher - Has passed away.

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Such lack of curiosity and empathy from someone who's job it is to inspire those very things is very sad

A few months back me and you (i think it was you) had a bit of a disagreement (well ding dong) over this very point. I made this point that there are many teachers with this attitude.

Anyway best to call time on this and move the debate on

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A few months back me and you (i think it was you) had a bit of a disagreement (well ding dong) over this very point. I made this point that there are many teachers with this attitude.

Anyway best to call time on this and move the debate on

Another thinly veiled personal insult?

 

Have we met?  Because I'm sure we haven't.  Until we have, or at least until you attempt to explore my teaching ethos and practices, your thinly veiled insult doesn't actually bear any credibility in relation to me.

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My bad.  I misread the post of yours that I originally replied to.  I thought you said that you had not experienced life under Thatcher, but in fact you were positing on behalf of those who had not experienced it.

 

No.  I am saying that you cannot reflect on an experience that does not happen to you, at least not in the context of a discussion like this.  I do not know what it was like to experience life in the 1930s and therefore I cannot reflect upon an experience of life in the 1930s.  However, obviously I can reflect upon what I see on TV or read or listen to, ie someone else's narrative.

well for a start it isn't for you to say what a person can or can't 'reflect on' whatever that means. Reflecting on my forbears experience in the two most cataclysmic events in modern world history  the effects  of which are felt to this day is considered by you not to be valid or meaningful: I find that reprehensible and intellectually bankrupt. 

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Discussing the Second World War, I know of an Austrian who lived through it and refuses to this day to visit Germany. For some, the hurt runs too deep with time no healer. Love her or hate her, Margaret Thatcher has certainly left her mark across the globe, and no doubt will still be reviled by some in decades to come. 

Well, it's no wonder really, is it.  If you'd experienced the death camps or watched copious numbers of your friends die horrible deaths or indeed caused horrible deaths to your contemporary enemy, it could well be a real struggle to return to the site of the horror.  However, Margaret Thatcher did not actually do any of those things so to compare the two is simply hyperbole.

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It was still embarrassing.

 

 

I would like to know how you know with such certainty that I know, understand or feel nothing about major events in history.  Exactly where have we discussed major events in history?  Exactly when have feelings been discussed?  And what do you know about my teaching?  And on what basis do you accuse me of having no curiosity or empathy?

 

No matter.  The questions were rhetorical.  You have no idea about me at all.

because of what you have said. Would you like me to quote your words back to you?

 

I have plenty of ideas about you from the information you have provided.

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well for a start it isn't for you to say what a person can or can't 'reflect on' whatever that means. Reflecting on my forbears experience in the two most cataclysmic events in modern world history  the effects  of which are felt to this day is considered by you not to be valid or meaningful: I find that reprehensible and intellectually bankrupt. 

I didn't at any time say that a person cannot reflect on what something MEANS.  I said they cannot reflect on an experience they have not experienced.  Thankfully, I'm not that bothered by what you think of my intellect.  You have never met me and so you don't know what you are talking about.

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because of what you have said. Would you like me to quote your words back to you?

 

I have plenty of ideas about you from the information you have provided.

I haven't mentioned my teaching ethos on here or my teaching practices.  I have not mentioned my feelings in relation to major historical events.  What you infer from the little I have written about Margaret Thatcher and how you extrapolate that to my approach to teaching or my values or my intellectual abilities lies entirely with you, but man you must be inferring and extrapolating on a very imaginative level!

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A few months back me and you (i think it was you) had a bit of a disagreement (well ding dong) over this very point. I made this point that there are many teachers with this attitude.

Anyway best to call time on this and move the debate on

me too

 

Teacher's on the whole do a great job

The results they achieve, and the children they achieve them with are undervalued 

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This thread is getting too personal.

 

Even from the grave, she's dividing the workers.

I think it's a bit far fetched to blame someone having a go at someone else on Thatcher!! :lol:

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Well, it's no wonder really, is it.  If you'd experienced the death camps or watched copious numbers of your friends die horrible deaths or indeed caused horrible deaths to your contemporary enemy, it could well be a real struggle to return to the site of the horror.  However, Margaret Thatcher did not actually do any of those things so to compare the two is simply hyperbole.

 

 

Try telling that to the mothers of Argentinian conscripts and of Welsh Guardsmen on the Sir Galahad.

 

Not that she did the wrong thing in fighting the war ... what sticks in my generations craw that she was way too arrogant and insecure to admit that she'd made a complete mess of allowing the Argentinians to have the confidence to invade. Then she censored twenty pages of the supposedly independent Franks Report into the war .

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Well, it's no wonder really, is it.  If you'd experienced the death camps or watched copious numbers of your friends die horrible deaths or indeed caused horrible deaths to your contemporary enemy, it could well be a real struggle to return to the site of the horror.  However, Margaret Thatcher did not actually do any of those things so to compare the two is simply hyperbole.

 

Who said anything about comparing? I was making a point that some people find it hard to forgive and forget, no matter what.  Sometimes it's worth keeping a cool head on here!  :rolleyes:

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I think it's a bit far fetched to blame someone having a go at someone else on Thatcher!! :lol:

 

 

 No its all her fault  :D

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I think it's a bit far fetched to blame someone having a go at someone else on Thatcher!! :lol:

It was a wry comment, not an apportioning of blame.

 

By the way, you're not winning the argument.

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Try telling that to the mothers of Argentinian conscripts and of Welsh Guardsmen on the Sir Galahad.

 

Not that she did the wrong thing in fighting the war ... what sticks in my generations craw that she was way too arrogant and insecure to admit that she'd made a complete mess of allowing the Argentinians to have the confidence to invade. Then she censored twenty pages of the supposedly independent Franks Report into the war .

So you think we should hold people responsible for the actions of others?  I thought that stopped once children had reached the age of maturity?  Thatcher was not responsible for what a mad military junta were thinking.  It was the Argentinian leaders who chose to invade and it is with them and them alone that the responsibility for the Falklands conflict falls.

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Who said anything about comparing? I was making a point that some people find it hard to forgive and forget, no matter what.  Sometimes it's worth keeping a cool head on here!

Then why mention the Austrian?  That gave the impression of comparison.

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So you think we should hold people responsible for the actions of others?  I thought that stopped once children had reached the age of maturity?  Thatcher was not responsible for what a mad military junta were thinking.  It was the Argentinian leaders who chose to invade and it is with them and them alone that the responsibility for the Falklands conflict falls.

 

Thatcher was responsible for withdrawing the ship that patrolled and protected the Falklands. She knew exactly how Galtieri felt about the islands.

 

Galtieri was not an elected President or Prime Minister; he was head of a military junta that had seized power and was torturing pro-democracy opponents.

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because of what you have said. Would you like me to quote your words back to you?

 

I have plenty of ideas about you from the information you have provided.

Incidentally, you quoted me writing that I found Glenda Jackson's words embarrassing.  That does indeed indicate something about me.  It indicates that I accept women are individuals and do not fit into a particular brand called 'womanhood', something Glenda Jackson still fails to appreciate.  Her form of feminism traps some women just as surely as sexism traps others.

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Thatcher was responsible for withdrawing the ship that patrolled and protected the Falklands. She knew exactly how Galtieri felt about the islands.

 

Galtieri was not an elected President or Prime Minister; he was head of a military junta that had seized power and was torturing pro-democracy opponents.

I did mention the military junta in the post you responded to.  I was alive and adult when the Falklands conflict took place so I am fully aware of the situation.  However, whether Thatcher was aware of Galtieri's thoughts or not, she is still not responsible for what he and his cronies chose to believe and the action he and his cronies chose to take.  That responsibility lies entirely with them.

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I did mention the military junta in the post you responded to.  I was alive and adult when the Falklands conflict took place so I am fully aware of the situation.  However, whether Thatcher was aware of Galtieri's thoughts or not, she is still not responsible for what he and his cronies chose to believe and the action he and his cronies chose to take.  That responsibility lies entirely with them.

 

That's just a ridiculous statement. She had a duty to protect the islands; that's why they are a British Protectorate.

 

Under your philosophy, if she'd withdrawn the troops from Northern Ireland, it wouldn't have been her fault that the IRA suddenly started killing more Protestants and the UDA started killing more Catholics?

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That's just a ridiculous statement. She had a duty to protect the islands; that's why they are a British Protectorate.

 

Under your philosophy, if she'd withdrawn the troops from Northern Ireland, it wouldn't have been her fault that the IRA suddenly started killing more Protestants and the UDA started killing more Catholics?

What on earth are you talking about?

 

All I said was that the Falklands conflict was the responsibility of the Argentinian military junta and nobody else.  They invaded the islands.  It was their decision.  They didn't have to do it.  Nobody forced them to.  But they did.  And Thatcher did the right thing and fought right back because, as you rightly say, the Falklands Islands are a British protectorate and so it is the British Government's duty to protect them.

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I was going to lock this thread and reopen it in the morning but, on second thoughts, I won't.  I'll leave it to John to decide if he wants to hit the lock/suspension buttons...

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