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Bedford Roughyed

Thatcher - Has passed away.

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True.

 

I doubt if anyone is occupying the middle ground.

I am. I was too young to have any knowledge of politics when she was still in power, and her death now will have no bearing on what the current politicians do. I'll not mourn her, but I'll also not celebrate her death.

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There's been some right old horrors from the past crawling out of the woodwork to have their say on the radio.

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There's been some right old horrors from the past crawling out of the woodwork to have their say on the radio.

I stuck Five Live on in the car on the way to and from the swimming baths this afternoon. It was wall to wall gushing tributes. So, I turned it off.

For those who disliked her politics it will be a difficult few days/weeks. Probably best to try and avoid the media.

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I feel indifferent

 

it what sh did when she was alive that stirs my feelings.

 

As Futtocks alluded, we're going to cop it now.

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From the Beeb:

 

 1702: Tony Gallagher Daily Telegraph editor tweets: We have closed comments on every #Thatcher story today - even our address to email tributes is filled with abuse.

 

It's a shame many of her opponents can't express themselves with the kind of eloquence her admirers seem to find easy. More people might listen to what they had to say.

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It will be a cold day in hell soon, Apparently she has already shut down two furnaces.

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If your friend, she was utterly ruthless in protecting you.  If your enemy or an opponent, she was utterly ruthless in defeating you.  Unfortunately for most of my upbringing she was an opponent of my community and culture.

 

I won't shed a tear at her passing having spent many of my formative years growing up in devastated mining communities.  That said, I won't be celebrating either, it was 23 years ago she left power, that's a long time to hold on to hatred as so many people have done.  The old saying of "forgive but never forget" couldn't be more true in my attitude towards her.

Craig, I have never associated you with a mining background.

 

Where did you grow up, if you don't mind me asking?

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From the Beeb:

1702: Tony Gallagher Daily Telegraph editor tweets: We have closed comments on every #Thatcher story today - even our address to email tributes is filled with abuse.

It's a shame many of her opponents can't express themselves with the kind of eloquence her admirers seem to find easy. More people might listen to what they had to say.

One of my friends who is a very devout Christian is being somewhat less than Christian in his attitude to this. Sadly this subject seems to have brought out the worst in some people.

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From the Beeb:

 

 1702: Tony Gallagher Daily Telegraph editor tweets: We have closed comments on every #Thatcher story today - even our address to email tributes is filled with abuse.

 

It's a shame many of her opponents can't express themselves with the kind of eloquence her admirers seem to find easy. More people might listen to what they had to say.

 

I totally agree with this. Politics by its nature can be divisive, but to respond to Thatcher's death with gushing hatred doesn't achieve anything, as far as I can see.

 

Hatred is always self destructive, and also self-revealing.

 

The reality is that Thatcher was a child of her time. The country in the late 70s was in massive trouble, as those who lived through it should be able to remember. If you can't see that, you shoudl read the autobiographies of some of the politicians who were in power under James Callaghan, such as Denis Healey, to see how helpless they felt. Radical change was needed and, whether you liked it or not, Thatcher was the only one offering it.

 

Sometimes a politician just catches the mood of the electorate, as she did in 1979, Attlee did in 1945 and Blair did in 1997.

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Martyn Sadler, on 08 Apr 2013 - 18:08, said:

I totally agree with this. Politics by its nature can be divisive, but to respond to Thatcher's death with gushing hatred doesn't achieve anything, as far as I can see.

Hatred is always self destructive, and also self-revealing.

I was chatting to a friend of mine earlier, who is about as 'left' as they come. This was his attitude exactly - criticize her policies and point out where she went wrong (in the eyes of those of a left-leaning persuasion, at least), but don't attack her personally. Once you do that you've lost the argument and not got your deep-held beliefs across.

It would be nice to see a bit more criticism of her politics in the media, though, rather than endless tributes from weeping Tories and Henry Kissinger. Perhaps that will come over time, once the hysteria has died down. I certainly hope so. I for one don't swallow the "she saved the country" line, as peddled out by Call Me Dave today. She fundamentally changed it, yes, but not all her reforms and changes were necessarily for the best. Besides, what's to say the country would have been "saved" (if it needed saving) under a different Tory leader or a Labour government?

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I totally agree with this. Politics by its nature can be divisive, but to respond to Thatcher's death with gushing hatred doesn't achieve anything, as far as I can see.

 

Hatred is always self destructive, and also self-revealing.

 

The reality is that Thatcher was a child of her time. The country in the late 70s was in massive trouble, as those who lived through it should be able to remember. If you can't see that, you shoudl read the autobiographies of some of the politicians who were in power under James Callaghan, such as Denis Healey, to see how helpless they felt. Radical change was needed and, whether you liked it or not, Thatcher was the only one offering it.

 

Sometimes a politician just catches the mood of the electorate, as she did in 1979, Attlee did in 1945 and Blair did in 1997.

The response to her death isn't about 'achieving anything'. It's a vent for those who were adversely affected by her, and also against the gushing nonsense we've been subjected to by the media so far today.

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she had a big impact on my and my fathers life and we will shed no tears for her.

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I was chatting to a friend of mine earlier, who is about as 'left' as they come. This was his attitude exactly - criticize her policies and point out where she went wrong (in the eyes of those of a left-leaning persuasion, at least), but don't attack her personally. Once you do that you've lost the argument and not got your deep-held beliefs across.

It would be nice to see a bit more criticism of her politics in the media, though, rather than endless tributes from weeping Tories and Henry Kissinger. Perhaps that will come over time, once the hysteria has died down. I certainly hope so. I for one don't swallow the "she saved the country" line, as peddled out by Call Me Dave today. She fundamentally changed it, yes, but not all her reforms and changes were necessarily for the best. Besides, what's to say the country would have been "saved" (if it needed saving) under a different Tory leader or a Labour government?

 

On the day that someone dies you usually find their legacy is treated with almost exaggerated respect, although I did hear Tony Benn strongly criticising her on 5Live today when I tuned in for the Challenge Cup draw that was then not broadcast at the appointed time. That was rather funny, because I also remember some years ago when Enoch Powell died, Tony Benn speaking quite gushingly about him, believe it or not.

 

You put your finger on a good point, though.

 

How can we possibly know what might have happened if Jim Callaghan had won the 1979 election, and Thatcher had never come to power?

 

How different would things have been today, either for the better or worse?

 

Interesting to speculate, but impossible to answer.

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when i got home the wife was sobbing un controllobly just saying "thatchers gone, thatchers gone" i said dont worry theres a case of bulmers under the stairs!

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Temporary lock until we can think about moderating rules...

 

Any other threads will be automatically deleted regardless of content or quality.

 

 

Right folks, here's how this is going to work.

 

Myself and ckn, as moderators on here, have agreed this policy between us as a means of attempting to keep things as civil as possible on here on what will be a very emotive subject for a lot of people on all sides of the 'debate'. Please help us do that by following the advice below.

 

1. The Terms & Conditions of Use will be RIGIDLY applied here. Please take five minutes of your time to read them in full (see below) and ensure that ANYTHING you post in this thread abides by them, PARTICULARLY those bits highlighted in BOLD.

 

2. If you post ANYTHING here deemed to break the Terms & Conditions, your post will be deleted and your use of the forum will be suspended for a period of 7 days for 'cooling off' without warning. It is YOUR responsibility to ensure your posts meet the T&Cs, not our responsibility to check that they do.

 

3. We will start a seperate thread titled 'Thatcherism' where you can debate the politics rather than the personality. However, exactly the same rules will apply in that thread as in here.

 

4. Moderators may move your comments from this thread to the 'Thatcherism' thread if we deem it appropriate.

 

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A lot of the extreme reaction would have already died away if it were not for the horrendous air-brushing of history going on as we speak. I'm sure a more considered reaction from the media will come, but saviour of the nation launched my own 10 minute rant about the evils she committed.

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The One in Twelve Club is apparently opening tonight for an evening of mourning and reflection.

If members are in before 10pm, it's free drinks afterwards.

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I wonder if Mark Thatcher has been on the phone yet to Cameron; to ask whether the UK Government will pay for his flight and hotel.

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The cynic in me thinks with this flooding of programmes on tv they have been sat on the shelf for a wee while.

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Being from a shipbuilding town she tried to destroy, I only seen happy smiling faces today at work today.

No love for maggie in barrow

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First off, I was brought up not speak ill of the dead regardless of their politics

Secondly, as an callow youth heading down the South Atlantic to the Falklands I would like to echo Simon Weston who said agree with her policies or not we were bloody glad she was in charge during that conflict.

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