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HP Beans

George Burgess

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absolutely....

look at george...he's been coming on as sub,smashing holes in every NRL defense he's faced and scored valuable tries too..

what more could you as for from a bench prop?

 

What impresses me the most about G.Burgess is his lack of fear for a 20yr old prop.  He was immense against Cronulla, taking Gallen on time and again, always making yards.

 

I agree that Burgess G, Hock and Crabtree would be the best impact forwards coming off the bench and would really cause some damage.

 

With S.Burgess being an 80min all pack positions player, and Graham being an 80 min prop, we have got so much strength its scary.

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many of us have laid claim to england/GB having a world class pack for a good 6,7,8 years.....having a massively good pack without having the halves to build on that is as much us as #### on a bull..thats where we fall down imo...

we now have a immense pack and a immense bench......we have a world class winger & fullback (hall & tomkins) we have NRL quality backs in charnley,briscoe,watkins & jack reed...

we need our halves to step up!

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international forwards at top level need to do 60 mins attack defend at the highest quality not just clumsily fall over the line cos the defence is tired and the forward is a big oafish lummox

They can't all do 60 minutes.

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I agree with the bench of Burrow, Hock, Crabtree and G Burgess. All three forwards absolutely huge units who can shift and all take 3 tackles to put them down. Added to Burrows dummy half running I feel bringing these players on after 25 - 30 minutes could really change the game.

You do need to be careful not to upset the balance too much though after 25minutes. During this period you do still need to do the hard graft. Staggering the bench you have above would be very important as bringing them all on within a couple of minutes could really de-stabilise the team and balance.

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Lunt has got to be in with a chance for the world cup.

 

Now he has been outstanding

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who've you got starting @ 9??my bench as it stands is..14. george burgess15. erol crabtree16. gareth hock17. rob burrow

Totally agree with you on that bench and Roby as starting hooker, the big question in my opinion is who's the starting pack and where does Sam burgess play, prop second row or loose forward. I'd go with:

Graham

Roby

Burgess

Farrell

Westwood

Sinfield(never going to happen)

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Echo sentiment 're the bench with george, eorl, hock and burrow that's immense impact off the bench.

starting for me could be:

Graham/L Burgess

Roby/mcallorum/lunt

Burgess/ Hill/mossop

Ellis/Farrell

Westwood/ferris

ologhlin/heighington

this just highlights even with injuries we have strength in depth in the pack.

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My England bench would now be:

Clark

Hock

Crabtree

G Burgess

George has been awesome for Souths but has also been excellent at the little things as well. Whilst being an impact player he has also played a lot of minutes in each half.

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In today's match, against the Storm, George made 126m from 13 hit-ups - according to the Sydney Morning Herald. These performances are getting better and better!

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He looked awesome this morning, just one of those players who is difficult to get hold of. That young lad Walmsley at Saints seems to have that quality too.

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He looked awesome this morning, just one of those players who is difficult to get hold of. That young lad Walmsley at Saints seems to have that quality too.

 

Couldn't agree more with that. G Burgess is the find of the decade in so far as forwards go and, if he is considered good enough for an automatic selection in the Souths side presently ( which he is) then he most certainly is also definitely good enough to represent England come the W/Cup. He was better than Sam yesterday and made more impact off the bench than any other sub seen. Should his improvement continue the bench may not even be the only place he could occupy.

 

Walmesley is an excellent prospect and certainly looks to have a great future in Saints or an NRL pack too.

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Couldn't agree more with that. G Burgess is the find of the decade in so far as forwards go and, if he is considered good enough for an automatic selection in the Souths side presently ( which he is) then he most certainly is also definitely good enough to represent England come the W/Cup. He was better than Sam yesterday and made more impact off the bench than any other sub seen. Should his improvement continue the bench may not even be the only place he could occupy.

Walmesley is an excellent prospect and certainly looks to have a great future in Saints or an NRL pack too.

So automatic selection into Souths is the benchmark for England? I think that's a case of giving the NRL too much respect. I wouldn't say that everyone that is an automatic selection for Souths is good enough for England's starting 17.

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So automatic selection into Souths is the benchmark for England? I think that's a case of giving the NRL too much respect. I wouldn't say that everyone that is an automatic selection for Souths is good enough for England's starting 17.

Automatic selection for Souths isn't the benchmark for England, but they are one of the best teams in the world and George is ripping it up for them. He's the form English forward at the moment and there's no one in SL at his level currently.

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I think that's a case of giving the NRL too much respect.

Hehe, have you never read peterandre's post before? An England fan who barely comments on any, so probably never watches any, games on English soil. :D

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So automatic selection into Souths is the benchmark for England? I think that's a case of giving the NRL too much respect. I wouldn't say that everyone that is an automatic selection for Souths is good enough for England's starting 17.

Of course not but for me he has been the best impact player in the NRL this season off the bench. Not bad for a player in his first proper season over there. If he keeps this form up he has to be down as a bench player for England in the WC.

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To be fair they are right.

I remember when we signef NRL regulars Chris Leikvoll and Paul Rauhihi. They blitzed SL and showed the class they had.

No disrespect to these players btw who had solid stints at Wire.

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Automatic selection for Souths isn't the benchmark for England, but they are one of the best teams in the world and George is ripping it up for them. He's the form English forward at the moment and there's no one in SL at his level currently.

That's fine, and they are reasons why he should be considered for selection. NOT because he gets selected for Souths.

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George Burgess scares me as an Aussie.

Psst.

 

There's another one who is exactly the same.

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So automatic selection into Souths is the benchmark for England? I think that's a case of giving the NRL too much respect. I wouldn't say that everyone that is an automatic selection for Souths is good enough for England's starting 17.

 

Presently I would!............Or Melbourne..........or Manly.........or the Bronco's etc etc etc.

I was expecting such a reply that you offerred, so I will answer with what I really believe is fact, that being that as the NRL is so much in superiority to the S/L (playing standards wise), then those capable of gaining the accolade of having not simply regular first team selection but, automatically so, would qualify as being good enough to warrant selection for our rep side at the present time.

 

No apologies for that either. I do watch all of the NRL and I contend that the standard over there is so much higher than ours and, consistently so, that I see no reason whatever to deny any English player down there from being capable and good enough, to be selected for our rep side in October.

 

These lads are competing to a much higher game standard on a weekly basis and, will be very used to what it takes to thrive against such opposition that they will face in the W/Cup. Consequently it would be an absolute no brainer to not include them when they will be facing the best that the S/Hemi can offer.   

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That's abit to far petero, fair enough the NRL is a higher standard but everyone playing in a top 6 NRL side wouldn't get in the England side, far from it.

I know that Australia are ahead of England in many ways, I still think that if England had Smith, Cronk and Thurston playing in 6 7 9 instead of Australia England would beat them.

Most Englishman recently who have gone to Australia have excelled, most Englishmen who have played against Australia recently have played reasonably well.

If you forget about the respective competitions in each country and just look at the first teams there isn't a huge gap in between them. Although England's first choice squad is paper thin underneath especially in the backs, the first choice England players are more than a match for the Aussies apart from 6, 7, 9 and a centre.

So I have to disagree that any top end NRL player would start for England, I'd say realistically 20% would have a decent shot, but all of them not a chance.

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I still think that if England had Smith, Cronk and Thurston playing in 6 7 9 instead of Australia England would beat them.

I'd agree with that

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That's abit to far petero, fair enough the NRL is a higher standard but everyone playing in a top 6 NRL side wouldn't get in the England side, far from it.

I know that Australia are ahead of England in many ways, I still think that if England had Smith, Cronk and Thurston playing in 6 7 9 instead of Australia England would beat them.

Most Englishman recently who have gone to Australia have excelled, most Englishmen who have played against Australia recently have played reasonably well.

If you forget about the respective competitions in each country and just look at the first teams there isn't a huge gap in between them. Although England's first choice squad is paper thin underneath especially in the backs, the first choice England players are more than a match for the Aussies apart from 6, 7, 9 and a centre.

So I have to disagree that any top end NRL player would start for England, I'd say realistically 20% would have a decent shot, but all of them not a chance.

 

I do not believe that I stated that any TOP end NRL player would gain an England place, did I?

What I stated was, that those Englishmen presently playing down under are definitely worthy of gaining representative selection if they have made themselves automatic first team choices in the NRL.

 

I do believe you would not deny that if anyone of our players is considered good enough for the NRL then he would definitely be a first choice player here too and obviously then be in line for selection come October?

 

So far each and everyone, barring the three more obscure Burgess lads have been at the top of their profession in the S/L prior to going to OZ.

Burgess G has undoubtedly shown that he would have been a sensation here also and to a lesser degree Burgess L also gained recognition at the end of his half term session last season as well, why even Mac took notice! And included him in his squad for the tri-Nations and training in S/Africa.

 

It may have slipped by, but Luke Burgess was given good game time at Souths and proved that he could be far better than he seemed at Leeds where he never really got to settle into their side. I cannot say he will regain a permanent place after injury, at Souths, but should he and then become an automatic choice there again, then he to would have to, I maintain, also be re-examined as to whether he was worthy of a place.

Should he accomplish all that, then yet again I would say he would be too.

 

PS I also agree with your notion concerning Smith, Slater and Cronk, only a fool would not do ;).    

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I do not believe that I stated that any TOP end NRL player would gain an England place, did I?

What I stated was, that those Englishmen presently playing down under are definitely worthy of gaining representative selection if they have made themselves automatic first team choices in the NRL.

I do believe you would not deny that if anyone of our players is considered good enough for the NRL then he would definitely be a first choice player here too and obviously then be in line for selection come October?

So far each and everyone, barring the three more obscure Burgess lads have been at the top of their profession in the S/L prior to going to OZ.

Burgess G has undoubtedly shown that he would have been a sensation here also and to a lesser degree Burgess L also gained recognition at the end of his half term session last season as well, why even Mac took notice! And included him in his squad for the tri-Nations and training in S/Africa.

It may have slipped by, but Luke Burgess was given good game time at Souths and proved that he could be far better than he seemed at Leeds where he never really got to settle into their side. I cannot say he will regain a permanent place after injury, at Souths, but should he and then become an automatic choice there again, then he to would have to, I maintain, also be re-examined as to whether he was worthy of a place.

I think George should be in the England squad at the end of the year provided he keeps his form. Due to him playing well though not just because he's getting a game.

As for Luke Burgess I actually think he goes against your argument. Forgetting this year as he's injured but last year he got himself a regular spot at souths. It certainly made me look at him in a new light a brought his game on. It didn't though have me thinking he was a shoe in for England. Same as Scott Moore this year I'm not sure if he's injured at the minute but early in the season he was playing well at NQ but that shouldn't have him down as the starting 9 for England.

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