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Exiled Wiganer

The Lions will Roar again

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I really hope they bring it back. Splitting into the home nations hasn't shown signs of making the benefits that they would want.

Can't say I agree.

Four home nations sides instead of one, meaning more international games.

France pulling in crowds over 10k against home nations sides.

Wales qualifying for the 4N.

Have England really not achieved the same as GB did or would have?

I really can't agree with the Bring Back GB line people continue to repeat.

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GB side should only be brought back when their is other home nations players good enough to compete. We need to keep developing Wales, Ireland and Scotland. The Welsh preparation for the WC is coming across as great and also their is Welsh talent breaking into SL which is good.

I think we should aim for a five yearly international schedule:

Year 1: An under 21s world cup/ few England non competitive games.

Year 2: 6 nations between the best 6 sides in the world (hopefully Aus/Kiwis will stop stealing Fiji players ect)

Year 3: GB test of Aus/Kiwis

Year 4 a European tournament england France Wales

Year 5 the world cup.

Just a thought but at least a schedule like this will give fans something to prepare for.

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Can't say I agree.

Four home nations sides instead of one, meaning more international games.

France pulling in crowds over 10k against home nations sides.

Wales qualifying for the 4N.

Have England really not achieved the same as GB did or would have?

I really can't agree with the Bring Back GB line people continue to repeat.

The profile of internationals is lower and playing as GB was something relatively unique to Rugby League. On the playing front little has changed, we haven't beaten Australia since we switched to England but I'm not going to suggest that we would have.

There have been very few benefits internationally to what we had previously. People make the mistake of thinking that the home nations didn't play before we split from GB. They did and they got similar crowds to what they do now, playing in games of a similar profile. We used to have a home nations tournament with a similar profile running alongside the Great Britain side.

My main argument is tradition and the playing side of things. Like I said earlier, in the 90's some of the biggest British names played for Wales whilst at the same time playing for GB. I doubt they would have decided to play for Wales today, making their side even weaker. It's already started but ironically with genuinely Welsh players deciding to opt for England. Is it really strengthening those countries to take out players like this and resign them to the small player pools and really second rate English heritage players?

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GB side should only be brought back when their is other home nations players good enough to compete. We need to keep developing Wales, Ireland and Scotland. The Welsh preparation for the WC is coming across as great and also their is Welsh talent breaking into SL which is good.

I think we should aim for a five yearly international schedule:

Year 1: An under 21s world cup/ few England non competitive games.

Year 2: 6 nations between the best 6 sides in the world (hopefully Aus/Kiwis will stop stealing Fiji players ect)

Year 3: GB test of Aus/Kiwis

Year 4 a European tournament england France Wales

Year 5 the world cup.

Just a thought but at least a schedule like this will give fans something to prepare for.

 Yes, but the game is now establishing a four year cycle, based upon world cups in 2013, 2017, etc.

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1. I disagree, the gap between England and those nations is so considerable that any benefits to those nations are outweighed by the damage in taking away the tradition of GBRL.

2. I completely understand the reasons for it, I just think it was too idealistic and has massive flaws. Even in the best circumstances we're talking about a process that would only see real benefits in 20/30/40 years time and may in reality never see any benefits. On the flip-side I think we'd see a situation where the likes of Iestyn Harris, Keiron Cunningham and Lee Briers would never opt to play for Wales now if it meant never genuinely competing in a top-level international game.

3. At the current time, when the Celtic nations have literally hundreds of players and play in front of hundreds of people, their best players should be able to play for GB as well as their own nation but in different tournaments. Look at the Evans brothers, they are proper Welsh but have opted to play for England to play in the big games.

 

1. The benefit to those nations is that they exist. The gap between them and England is irrelevant. England (hence GB) are so far behind Australia, and have been for three decades now; should we do away with England/GB? And any damage that has been done by taking away the (relatively recent) tradition of GB is an issue that English rugby league has to face up to. Which other major team sport in England would want to subsume their national identity - and their national team - into a shared representative team?

 

2. Having national sides for nations that play the game is idealistic? No, it's just the normal way of the world in team sports. Of course it may be 20/30/40 years before we see the benefits of current developments, but here's the thing: to realise the benefits of a process that takes 20/30/40 years, you have to persevere with it now! As for Welsh players opting for other nation's teams, that is an issue for the game's authorities and the individuals concerned. It is up to the game to provide regular access for second-tier nations such as Wales to the big three, whether in world cups or through qualifying for the 4 Nations. Under your suggestion, Wales, Scotland and Ireland would never get to play the big teams, presumably having to be content with a never ending cycle of games between themselves.

 

3. The Celtic nations may be small at this time but don't think that nothing is going on. I am literally bombarded with messages about the development activities going on in the Scottish game, whether that be school games, development squads at various age levels, student trials and 9s tournaments, wheelchair RL, coaching and official courses. The game in Wales is even more advanced, and I'm sure the Irish are getting stuck in as well. Yet you think it would be a good idea for the three teams never to play in a world cup again? And never have access to a 4 Nations? And what other tournaments? A Celtic Tri Nations?

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All 4 home nations have a greater profile and play in front of bigger crowds than at any time for any of them or GB since the end of the Super League war.

Stick with it, the home nations have meaningful, regular matches now and there is a pathway for players in those countries.

GB playing every 4 years or so, on top of the regular matches for the home nations is the way forward.

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1. The profile of internationals is lower and playing as GB was something relatively unique to Rugby League. On the playing front little has changed, we haven't beaten Australia since we switched to England but I'm not going to suggest that we would have.

2. There have been very few benefits internationally to what we had previously. People make the mistake of thinking that the home nations didn't play before we split from GB. They did and they got similar crowds to what they do now, playing in games of a similar profile. We used to have a home nations tournament with a similar profile running alongside the Great Britain side.

3. My main argument is tradition and the playing side of things. Like I said earlier, in the 90's some of the biggest British names played for Wales whilst at the same time playing for GB. I doubt they would have decided to play for Wales today, making their side even weaker. It's already started but ironically with genuinely Welsh players deciding to opt for England. Is it really strengthening those countries to take out players like this and resign them to the small player pools and really second rate English heritage players?

 

1. Playing as GB was unique in major team sports because it was a sign of rugby league's failure to develop the game throughout Great Britain and Ireland. The game's 'national' team became Great Britain (or Great Britain and Ireland, occasionally) in order to utilise the rugby union converts from Scotland and Wales, not out of any great enthusiasm for the Union. We may as well revert to having a national side called the 'Northern Union'. And, again, if a side made up of English players cannot play as well playing as England as they would being called Great Britain, then that is an issue for English rugby league to sort out. It is not a reason for rolling back the little progress the game has made in the other nations.

 

2. The problem was that England very rarely got any game time outside of world cups, quite an issue for England's coaches trying to build for the game's premier international competition. It also caused the other three nations to lose their best players if they were called upon to help out GB.

3. Genuine Welsh players should not be allowed to play for England, full stop (unless they are dual qualified). That is something, again, for the game's authorities - and the players - to deal with. And, as for tradition, the major representative side from these islands was England before the war, so the current situation is traditional. It's just that now the game is laying down new traditions in the three other nations.

I can appreciate that the game, like the rest of society, is going through some rough times at present. Major sponsorship problems, top level expansion that has failed/is failing, an apparent cooling towards the game by the major broadcasting partner, and a definite lack of vision in the wake of Richard Lewis' departure, but this is not a time for the game to be withdrawing back into its regional comfort zone.

A Great Britain (with or without Ireland/Northern Ireland) tour down-under once every four years is one thing, but there should not be composite sides in the game's major tournaments. England are big enough to stand on their own!

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If there is another thread on this, sorry to have missed it. I was delighted to read that there may be a Lions Tour Down Under in 2015. With a full GB side, so there could be a couple of Welsh forwards in there, all being well.

Assuming that a number of good quality NRLers play for the Home Nations in the WC, would/should they then be available for the Lions?

If this is true, I'd be absolutely chuffed. We all shouted for team GB at the Olympics and it would be great to do that for our rugby team.  My kids got into the team GB thing and they've asked me why RL doesn't have a team. I'd love to tell them that they actually do.

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If this is true, I'd be absolutely chuffed. We all shouted for team GB at the Olympics and it would be great to do that for our rugby team.  My kids got into the team GB thing and they've asked me why RL doesn't have a team. I'd love to tell them that they actually do.

 

Do your kids ask you why soccer and cricket don't have a Great Britain team? 

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Do your kids ask you why soccer and cricket don't have a Great Britain team? 

Yes, they have asked about a GB cricket team (I don't follow soccer). I don't have a satisfactory answer for them but its a very good question, especially as Welsh, Irish and Scotsmen have all recently represented England.  :)

 

I just think rugby is in a very different place to soccer and cricket and we should pool our resources to produce a stronger and more united "brand" that brings the rugby league family together. I might be wrong and I understand the arguments but I think a GB rugby team would be a much more attractive concept to sell to the public. 

 

I hate to say it but it works in union - separate home nations but a united front against the best in the world on tour.

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Yes, they have asked about a GB cricket team (I don't follow soccer). I don't have a satisfactory answer for them but its a very good question, especially as Welsh, Irish and Scotsmen have all recently represented England. :)

I just think rugby is in a very different place to soccer and cricket and we should pool our resources to produce a stronger and more united "brand" that brings the rugby league family together. I might be wrong and I understand the arguments but I think a GB rugby team would be a much more attractive concept to sell to the public.

I hate to say it but it works in union - separate home nations but a united front against the best in the world on tour.

But in Union all four home nations are fairly strong and all nations are represented but in soccer, cricket and RL this isn't the case. In Soccer only bale would play in GB side all the rest English. In cricket there wouldn't be any nationalities except English and South Africans. It would be similar in RL, they wouldn't be GB it would be England in a different name and Wales will release this and not support them. It would demolish the Welsh identity as an RL international side and ruin the progress we have made in the country.

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like i said........theres not a single welsh,scots or irish player that'll displace a englishman in ANY Great britain team

dudson? flower?.........give ya heads a wobble!! who are they up against? burgess x4...james graham,erol crabtree,chris hill...to name just EIGHT

danny brough can't even catch the england team...so as a scottish player he's got no chance what so ever!!

a couple of years ago there was a decent shout to have "irish" wingers pat richards & damian blanch in a GB team...now we have world class winger in ryan hall and charnley & briscoe just below world class....

every single GB player will be current england players......."token" players will lower the standard of the GB team

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It allows a Welsh RU player the incentive of a competitive RL international scene to factor into changing codes or choosing a code at 19.

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like i said........theres not a single welsh,scots or irish player that'll displace a englishman in ANY Great britain team

dudson? flower?.........give ya heads a wobble!! who are they up against? burgess x4...james graham,erol crabtree,chris hill...to name just EIGHT

danny brough can't even catch the england team...so as a scottish player he's got no chance what so ever!!

a couple of years ago there was a decent shout to have "irish" wingers pat richards & damian blanch in a GB team...now we have world class winger in ryan hall and charnley & briscoe just below world class....

every single GB player will be current england players......."token" players will lower the standard of the GB team

 

Where was Chris Hill two years ago? Two years is a long time. The 2015 GB team maybe all English. We can't predict what a 2019 team will look like if the incentive is there to declare for the other home nations.

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Plenty of our GB teams have been all English - I don;t think that made them less credible.

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Plenty of our GB teams have been all English - I don;t think that made them less credible.

GB was the principle "national team" back then.........now it is'nt....we have england,wales,scotland & ireland as the principle national teams....GB is supposed to be a amalgamation of all 4.....but it won't be for a very,very long time

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just to be clear........im not anti GB....far from it,i was gutted when GB was disbanded...but as a internationalist i saw the value of promoting the 4 national teams that played in the world cups over 1 team (GB)that did'nt...the grand plan of having a GB tour every 4 years should have fitted in well within a 4year international schedule..world cup,GB tour,4nations,4nations,world cup..

but its not worked out like that....and now any GB team will be seen as a rebadged england team....and it will be

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But couldn't we have the best of all worlds? The non English players can play for GB on tour if good enough and their own country in 3 years out of 4.

Not wanting to have to give my head another wobble, taking 2 non Welsh examples - McIllorum and Brough might choose to play for Ireland and Scotland most years but could make a 24 man squad for GB once every 4 years.

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In cricket there wouldn't be any nationalities except English and South Africans.

Simon Jones

Geraint Jones

Ed Joyce

Eoin Morgan

None of them English but all have represented the England cricket team in the last decade. (Thought about putting Scotland's Gavin Hamilton in there too, but that would weaken rather than strengthen my point).

As for RL, I miss the old GB identity (and that beautiful blue and red chevron). It would be good to have it back, as part of a four-yearly touring cycle. Let's keep plugging on with the other home nations in the meantime though.

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GB was the principle "national team" back then.........now it is'nt....we have england,wales,scotland & ireland as the principle national teams....GB is supposed to be a amalgamation of all 4.....but it won't be for a very,very long time

So? Give people something to work towards.

 

Brough is a good example - he will probably play for Scotland again, and it looks like he won't be selected for England under McNamara - yet somebody like Noble may select him for a GB touring team.

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Simon Jones

Geraint Jones

Ed Joyce

Eoin Morgan

None of them English but all have represented the England cricket team in the last decade.

This is the problem from my perspective. If you are serious about your cricket, you will opt to play for England as Ireland are not afforded the same competitive opportunities.

Likewise in Rugby League, Scotland, Ireland, and - to a lesser extent - Wales are not afforded the same opportunities as England. This is not just in terms of playing the big nations, but also in terms of the off-field support and developmental player pathways.

Currently, any young and talented Irish, Scots or Welsh players with an English grandparent would have to seriously consider playing for England if they had any aspirations of having a successful international career.

Personally I would do away with the Exiles (the concept has a limited shelf life anyway as imports continue to be reduced) and instead have a European championships each Summer (e.g. two or more tiers whereby the highest ranked 4 nations play each other, and then the next highest 4 nations play each other etc). Autumn internationals could then involve GB in test series or 4 nations, and all home nations players would therefore be eligible for selection. Separate home nations could be retained for World Cup years.

This would offer the best of both worlds, as home nations would still have numerous opportunities to play as separate nations, but also it wouldn't prevent players from playing at the highest level in being selected for GB against Aus or NZ. This would therefore strengthen the other home nations by preventing any migration of talent looking to play for England.

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I'm really glad there's a chance GB&I is coming back. 2015 is the best year to do it too, as it leaves 2016 for teams entering the WC to build up to it, and the year after any World Cup will be there for the WC teams to capitalise on successes.

 

The 2015 GB team maybe all English. We can't predict what a 2019 team will look like if the incentive is there to declare for the other home nations.

 

Yes, and deciding whether to run Lions tours on guesswork about whether non-England players will make the team isn't a practical way to go about it. We need to have a longer fixed schedule of internationals.

 

Here's one thing that might help reduce concerns about an English-only team though: mid-week tour games.

 

There'll be a greater opportunity for all four home nations to be represented, if we send enough tourists to play two games a week. The weekend matches would be the primary competition (Ashes and/or Baskerville) as usual, while the mid-week matches could be against Pacific nations, All Star selections, clubs, etc. The mid-week team could also head off to another location for a two or three days, in some cases, to play some of these matches. It would also keep the more of the squad match fit and being allow players not picked for Tests a good way to compete for a place. It could bring in more money too, through attendances and probably media deals.

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What time of year are we anticipating this tour happening? Post season?

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Is it a serious proposal or Pie in the Sky expanded WCC series stuff?

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