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RoytonRoughyed

Minimum Standards

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I'm a Rugby League fan who is for promotion and relegation, however I understood why the RFL brought in the licenses. I would like to see I situation were we have both. Provided you have a licenses that says your club meets minimum standards then you can be promoted to the top league should you win the one below. So I was wondering what fans thought should be minimum standards if any, or whether it should be just Licenses or just the best 10/12/14 teams reguardless of fan base, ground, etc

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There is a lot to be said for a careful return to p&r. Some form of minimum standards is essential, but it is also vital that clubs know where they stand before the season gets under way. Therefore, I would like to see a situation where clubs are informed of whether or not they meet the minimum standards by January 1st. If told "no" on that date, any subsequent improvements during that year will not change the "no" to a "yes". Also, bearing in mind the way Widnes have adapted to SL, any promoted club should be exempt from relegation for their first two seasons. If they finish bottom in their third (or any subsequent) season, they would be relegated.

 

As for the actual minimum standards, I'm a bit unsure. The licensing criteria would be a good starting point, but would we apply the same criteria to "heartlands" clubs like Leigh, Salford, Batley or York as we would to "expansion" clubs such as Skolars, Toulouse or, say, Whitehaven? (I know Whitehaven have been around a long time, but there has been no Cumbrian presence in SL for years now.) I ask this in the light of Broncos' recent excursion to Esher, and it is a genuine question, not just an attempt to wind up my fellow posters.

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Minimum standards should be rigorous for those in SL but not those aiming to get in where a time limit could apply (rigorously).

Whitehaven (Cumbrian outpost) were told they couldnt go up a couple of years ago just before they went ######, yet Wakefields joke of a ground was okay

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One minimum standard must be financial stability. Not throwing the kitchen sink at promotion without thought to the consequences.

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One minimum standard must be financial stability. Not throwing the kitchen sink at promotion without thought to the consequences.

I agree, like wise for teams currently in the top league.

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I agree, like wise for teams currently in the top league.

why would they be trying to get promoted? The top tier reg should be based around proportion of income spent on youth development in my opinion

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why would they be trying to get promoted? The top tier reg should be based around proportion of income spent on youth development in my opinion

So they can throw the kitchen sink at staying in the division and that would be ok?

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That's the problem with direct relegation - it guarantees over-spending to survive as the loss of income the following year is so vast. Better to make sure they are doing something positive with the money they spend

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How can you have a licencing system and Promotion and Relegation? Does that not then just become the old system? Personally, im dead set against P&R.

Look at it this way. Last year, Widnes came up, they finished bottom, they'd have gone straight back down. Instead, they had a year to build on getting a licence. This year, just 10 games in, they are only 3 points behind their entire total they got last year and have been competitive in probably 80% of their matches. That has happened in the space of 12 months. They have gone from a team that people were saying, wouldnt win a game last year, to a team who actually have a shot at making the top 8 this time out. If P&R was still in place, they wouldnt have had chance to do this and would have probably filled their team with loophole "English" Aussies to try and stay up, as would Cas and London.

Im not saying Licencing is perfect, but it's still relatively young and I think the Crusaders debacle set us back a bit. This current licence set seems to be going well though and I do believe that when they announce the next set of teams, whether it be 14, 12 or 10, we will have finally got rid of those who dont deserve to be there. Like anything though, it doesnt just happen like that.

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How can you have a licencing system and Promotion and Relegation? Does that not then just become the old system? Personally, im dead set against P&R.

Look at it this way. Last year, Widnes came up, they finished bottom, they'd have gone straight back down. Instead, they had a year to build on getting a licence. This year, just 10 games in, they are only 3 points behind their entire total they got last year and have been competitive in probably 80% of their matches. That has happened in the space of 12 months. They have gone from a team that people were saying, wouldnt win a game last year, to a team who actually have a shot at making the top 8 this time out. If P&R was still in place, they wouldnt have had chance to do this and would have probably filled their team with loophole "English" Aussies to try and stay up, as would Cas and London.

Im not saying Licencing is perfect, but it's still relatively young and I think the Crusaders debacle set us back a bit. This current licence set seems to be going well though and I do believe that when they announce the next set of teams, whether it be 14, 12 or 10, we will have finally got rid of those who dont deserve to be there. Like anything though, it doesnt just happen like that.

 

Widnes only finished bottom on points difference and they knew they were safe. If there had been relegation in place, I am sure they would have made an extra effort and avoided the wooden spoon.

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How can you have a licencing system and Promotion and Relegation? Does that not then just become the old system? Personally, im dead set against P&R.

Look at it this way. Last year, Widnes came up, they finished bottom, they'd have gone straight back down. Instead, they had a year to build on getting a licence. This year, just 10 games in, they are only 3 points behind their entire total they got last year and have been competitive in probably 80% of their matches. That has happened in the space of 12 months. They have gone from a team that people were saying, wouldnt win a game last year, to a team who actually have a shot at making the top 8 this time out. If P&R was still in place, they wouldnt have had chance to do this and would have probably filled their team with loophole "English" Aussies to try and stay up, as would Cas and London.

Im not saying Licencing is perfect, but it's still relatively young and I think the Crusaders debacle set us back a bit. This current licence set seems to be going well though and I do believe that when they announce the next set of teams, whether it be 14, 12 or 10, we will have finally got rid of those who dont deserve to be there. Like anything though, it doesnt just happen like that.

I enjoyed your post. I understood the main principle of licensing (to enable clubs to build solid foundations) which Ralph Rimmer explained in a rare article (it's rare the RFL/SLE explain much in detail)around 2005??

I also understood the principle of licensing when Lewis said Les Catalans would come in but would not be relegated for three years. This was to allow expansion clubs to build.

But IMHO a policy can only survive if it is a successful policy. Money and success and youth development built up our true Superleague clubs and hanging around SL for the last seven years of licensing has dome nothing to enable such as London, Salford, Cas, Wakey, Bradford etc to "build solid foundations".

Licensing/minimum standards is an abject failure, and I see no point in it other than the requirement to develop the game in your area and produce players. Even then only a few clubs seem to be seriously doing this.

There's no real licensing on minimum standards when you have to relax the standards down to find 14 clubs.

Time for it to go.

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Is it just me, or has The Parksider finally delivered a coherent argument after 10000+ lengthy posts? I'm staggered. Fully expect to go onto another thread and see him saying something different, but it's a start.

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I simply believe rugby league is played on the pitch and this is where P&R should be decided and not in some office at Red Hall.

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Is it just me, or has The Parksider finally delivered a coherent argument after 10000+ lengthy posts? I'm staggered. Fully expect to go onto another thread and see him saying something different, but it's a start.

No, it's like somebody sensible has hacked his account. Mind you he was always pragmatic when it came to Hunslet. 

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Is it just me, or has The Parksider finally delivered a coherent argument after 10000+ lengthy posts? I'm staggered. Fully expect to go onto another thread and see him saying something different, but it's a start.

Is it just me or has Just Browny finally delivered another vacuous stupid post to help take him past 10,000 other such posts.

Fully expect this to go onto another thread and see him saying something just as vacuous and stupid, but maybe it'll end.

Maybe we'll both go on like this and the thread will be locked. Who knows....

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I supported the hopes behind licensing but the necessary three year cycle does have serious negatives. We know we've lost something without relegation.

 

I hope it's possible to take the best from licensing and apply it to a new P&R process. TonyXIII's right, clubs in lower divisions need to be told before the season if they're eligible to go up.

 

I would support giving newly promoted teams two years' exemption from relegation but we could end up with quite a few teams exempt (the two most recently promoted teams and one (or two) French teams) which will inevitably bring complaints when a team x places from bottom is relegated.

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1. I supported the hopes behind licensing but the necessary three year cycle does have serious negatives. We know we've lost something without relegation.

 

2. I hope it's possible to take the best from licensing and apply it to a new P&R process. TonyXIII's right, clubs in lower divisions need to be told before the season if they're eligible to go up.

1. I agree but

2. The best of licensing was to make the clubs encourage junior RL & develop players, as for P & R the lower divisions have run out of eligble clubs and the higher division still won't want certain clubs relegating.If Toulouse come in they'll be exempted??

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PnR has not been given anywhere near the time required for it to be proven a success or failure.

 

I think that Licencing should be scrapped altogether and nor should there be any PnR. 

 

It should be a target of the RFL and SLE to have a final 10, 12 or 14 teams that make up SL. Perhaps set a four year cut off date when this will happen.

 

Unsuccessful clubs will have to ply their trade in the Championship until the day comes that the RFL and SL have enough money and evidence of demand to help financially sustain a new entry much in the same way as the NRL, NFL and AFL.

 

PnR has had its day in sport's current capitalist culture. Barring a new benefactor, clubs at the top will stay successful and rich while the rest of the competition battles for survival or occasionally the ever elusive consistent place at the top. Football all across Europe is evidence to that.

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PnR has not been given anywhere near the time required for it to be proven a success or failure.

I think that Licencing should be scrapped altogether and nor should there be any PnR.

It should be a target of the RFL and SLE to have a final 10, 12 or 14 teams that make up SL. Perhaps set a four year cut off date when this will happen.

Unsuccessful clubs will have to ply their trade in the Championship until the day comes that the RFL and SL have enough money and evidence of demand to help financially sustain a new entry much in the same way as the NRL, NFL and AFL.

PnR has had its day in sport's current capitalist culture. Barring a new benefactor, clubs at the top will stay successful and rich while the rest of the competition battles for survival or occasionally the ever elusive consistent place at the top. Football all across Europe is evidence to that.

That would kill the game.

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That would kill the game.

It'd kill Leigh.

P & R would also kill clubs unless the gap could be bridged.

Maybe there is no solution to a massive TV contract some clubs can have other can't have in terms of keping 30 odd clubs alive.

So maybe the argument moves on as to how to keep Wigan alive.

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1. PnR has not been given anywhere near the time required for it to be proven a success or failure.

 

2. I think that Licencing should be scrapped altogether and nor should there be any PnR. 

 

3. It should be a target of the RFL and SLE to have a final 10, 12 or 14 teams that make up SL. Perhaps set a four year cut off date when this will happen.

 

4. Unsuccessful clubs will have to ply their trade in the Championship until the day comes that the RFL and SL have enough money and evidence of demand to help financially sustain a new entry much in the same way as the NRL, NFL and AFL.

1. I don't understand this? There were years of P&R prior to SL and ten years of it in SL.

2. It's a discredited system and should be scrapped IMHO.

3. Centrally planning the Superleague business as a whole and not leaving things to chance and individual clubs to work to seems the only logical option to take without persisting with a failed policy, or going back to another failed policy.

4. That will certainly please the myriad of people who advocate copying American and Australian systems. I personally IMHO think the central planning you seem to advocate provides the control the game will need. It may also accelerate the demise of championship clubs unless the "money and demand" necessary to avoid this materialises.

And that's a long long shot?

Care to name your number for SL and name the clubs??

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That would kill the game.

and why would a reduction in teams and strengthening of the competition kill the game?

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My big question I guess is why do we need promotion and relegation?

 

Why cant a club (and I mean all up the divisions) be content with competing in the competition they are in?

 

What is wrong with Halifax creating a dynasty in the Championship and competing in four successive GF's?

 

In the case of Championship clubs, if there is evidence of demand, finances and player strength for another club in SL then those clubs can then apply to join the competition when that opportunity arises.

 

Too many professional clubs aiming for the stars is what is killing the game.

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In the case of Championship clubs, if there is evidence of demand, finances and player strength for another club in SL then those clubs can then apply to join the competition when that opportunity arises.

How would you quantify this?

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