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Boston Marathon Finishing Line Bombed

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They never lived in Chechenya so he may have a point.

No, but they certainly considered themselves Chechen and were dedicated to the cause that he once fought for.

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I'm an atheist but I'm Christian by association, upbringing and lifestyle. Someone's got to say it, so it may as well be me.

 

The affluent countries of the western world have got to declare a moratorium on muslim immigration. A three year work permit, followed by review, followed by a six year work permit, followed by review, followed by a six year work permit,followed by review, followed by conditional  permanent residence status, should be the way forward.

 

If such immigrants end up with no significant criminal record and have worked full-time for twelve of those fifteen years, they could expect to gain citizenship. Benefit scroungers and political extremists could be refused a renewed work permit.

 

The muslim religious hierarchy has made far too little effort to stamp out triumphalism and encourage social integration. Third world ideas and prejudices belong in the third world. If they don't like the west, stay in the east.

 

Obviously, TRL's right-on brigade will pick up on the fact that I'm citing prejudice when I could be labelled with the same tag. However, let's face it, what would you be telling one of the poor maimed victims in Boston.

 

Would it be  that:

  • such perpetrators represent an abnormal fringe of religious nutters within Islam. We mustn't tar them all with the same brush.
  • there has always been inter-denomination rivalry
  • we in the west have perpetrated terrible atrocities in the Middle East, so we can't complain when we suffer retributio
  • we must be ecumenical about all this. 
  • eventually, good will overcome evil

 

I suspect the response would be:

"Yeah, right on, but maybe you social scientists could tell me exactly where my legs  have gone?"

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The elder bomber had committed a crime (domestic violence) and should have been deported by the US' own rules on visas. Instead he was allowed to stay and given citizenship. The West needs to take warning signs more seriously. A third party government (not specified but probably Russia) even asked the USA to monitor him two years ago as they believed that he had become involved in Islamist activities.

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TRL's right-on brigade

I'm confused.

It's not okay for anyone to even suggest that anybody else's opinion may be racist but it is okay for you to just splurge out generalist insults before anybody has even replied?

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what would you be telling one of the poor maimed victims in Boston.

That they don't need to bother explaining how they feel about anything any more because somebody they don't know on the internet has decided it for them.

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I think it is a bit too early to draw definite conclusions. This looks like your standard "Muslim immigrants refuse to integrate, become radicalised and start killing people" narrative but it's not yet known what role the greater Muslim community played in this (if any at all). AFAIK the US doesn't usually have the same problems with extremist mosques that we have in the UK. However, there is the distinct possibility that we have another example of "the religion of peace" being anything but.

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I think it is a bit too early to draw definite conclusions. This looks like your standard "Muslim immigrants refuse to integrate, become radicalised and start killing people" narrative but it's not yet known what role the greater Muslim community played in this (if any at all). AFAIK the US doesn't usually have the same problems with extremist mosques that we have in the UK. However, there is the distinct possibility that we have another example of "the religion of peace" being anything but.

I'd be very surprised if they had much in the way of support as they seem to have been pretty shambolic both in execution and escape, as well as in getting any message across. From a British perspective they seem more like the Admiral Duncan bomber than the team behind 7/7. I suspect this isolation and incompetence may explain why the FBI didn't feel there was a threat.

You obviously can't ignore any aspect of how they came to be planting bombs under pressure cookers, including their religion, but I suspect what's going to come back is the Facebook status of "It's complicated."

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No, the one thing that is clear is that this was not a major terror group.

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I'm an atheist but I'm Christian by association, upbringing and lifestyle. Someone's got to say it, so it may as well be me.

The affluent countries of the western world have got to declare a moratorium on muslim immigration. A three year work permit, followed by review, followed by a six year work permit, followed by review, followed by a six year work permit,followed by review, followed by conditional permanent residence status, should be the way forward.

If such immigrants end up with no significant criminal record and have worked full-time for twelve of those fifteen years, they could expect to gain citizenship. Benefit scroungers and political extremists could be refused a renewed work permit.

The muslim religious hierarchy has made far too little effort to stamp out triumphalism and encourage social integration. Third world ideas and prejudices belong in the third world. If they don't like the west, stay in the east.

Obviously, TRL's right-on brigade will pick up on the fact that I'm citing prejudice when I could be labelled with the same tag. However, let's face it, what would you be telling one of the poor maimed victims in Boston.

Would it be that:

  • such perpetrators represent an abnormal fringe of religious nutters within Islam. We mustn't tar them all with the same brush.
  • there has always been inter-denomination rivalry
  • we in the west have perpetrated terrible atrocities in the Middle East, so we can't complain when we suffer retributio
  • we must be ecumenical about all this.
  • eventually, good will overcome evil

I suspect the response would be:

"Yeah, right on, but maybe you social scientists could tell me exactly where my legs have gone?"

Jolly good, I'll tell the Missus about your considered thoughts and opinion.

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Jolly good, I'll tell the Missus about your considered thoughts and opinion.

 

Good. All 'Moslems' are ethnically and culturally identical, so Wolford's decision to shoehorn these ethnic Chechens who have grown up in the US in with his well-aired views on ethnic Pakistanis in Bradford is completely reasonable. I hope your wife is suitably shamed.

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Why am i not surprised: 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/boston-marathon-bombings-czech-republics-ambassador-concerned-by-americans-confusing-his-country-with-chechnya-8581341.html

 

Boston Marathon bombings: Czech Republic's ambassador 'concerned' by Americans confusing his country with Chechnya
 
 

Many tweets apparently confused the two countries, which are around 1,700 miles apart

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Good. All 'Moslems' are ethnically and culturally identical, so Wolford's decision to shoehorn these ethnic Chechens who have grown up in the US in with his well-aired views on ethnic Pakistanis in Bradford is completely reasonable. I hope your wife is suitably shamed.

Well, my step kids have been labelled "Pakis" who should "go home" on a couple of occasions by the local inteligentsia's kids. But that's 8 year olds for you. It's when such ignorant, lazy, pathetic and bigotted attitudes persist into adulthood that disturbs me.

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No, the one thing that is clear is that this was not a major terror group.

Quite. The likes of Al-Queda are never backward in coming forwards when it comes to taking credit for an attack. None of those groups have claimed any involvement.

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Well, my step kids have been labelled "Pakis" who should "go home" on a couple of occasions by the local inteligentsia's kids. But that's 8 year olds for you. 

 

That really can't be nice at all - to put it mildly.

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The surviving bomber has been charged with 'using a weapon of mass destruction' according to latest news reports.

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Good. All 'Moslems' are ethnically and culturally identical, so Wolford's decision to shoehorn these ethnic Chechens who have grown up in the US in with his well-aired views on ethnic Pakistanis in Bradford is completely reasonable. I hope your wife is suitably shamed.

They aren't the same but they are related. Islam is based around the idea of a community of believers that transcends national and tribal boundaries after all.

 

If the bombers' comments are anything to go by his motivation seems to have been Afghanistan and Iraq despite being neither Afghan nor Iraqi.

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Islam is based around the idea of a community of believers that transcends national and tribal boundaries after all.

That'll be why the Sunni and Shia get on so well.

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That'll be why the Sunni and Shia get on so well.

They both believe in the community of believers. They just hate those who don't belong to the one-true-community.

 

Nevertheless Sunni Muslims around the world are connected just as Shi'ia around the world are connected.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/04/22/pol-terror-plot-ontario-quebec-arrests.html

 

"Religion of peace" at it again.

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They both believe in the community of believers. They just hate those who don't belong to the one-true-community.

 

Nevertheless Sunni Muslims around the world are connected just as Shi'ia around the world are connected.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/04/22/pol-terror-plot-ontario-quebec-arrests.html

 

"Religion of peace" at it again.

I'd be interested in knowing if that Canadian thing has any real substance to it. It could just be the RCMP not wanting to get caught out so arresting anybody who they have any level of doubt about - and then shouting about it to the world.

Of course, sometimes even the most peaceful of religions turns mean: http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/world-news/buddhist-monks-are-accused-of-ethnic-cleansing.20883968

EDIT:

None of which is to say that there isn't a problem with young men in particular being radicalised by Islamism and nationalism. It's my belief that you don't solve the problem by further excluding(*) them or not engaging - which seems to be the Wolford Way.

(* = which does not mean allowing beliefs to go unchallenged).

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I'd be interested in knowing if that Canadian thing has any real substance to it. It could just be the RCMP not wanting to get caught out so arresting anybody who they have any level of doubt about - and then shouting about it to the world.

Of course, sometimes even the most peaceful of religions turns mean: http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/world-news/buddhist-monks-are-accused-of-ethnic-cleansing.20883968

EDIT:

None of which is to say that there isn't a problem with young men in particular being radicalised by Islamism and nationalism. It's my belief that you don't solve the problem by further excluding(*) them or not engaging - which seems to be the Wolford Way.

(* = which does not mean allowing beliefs to go unchallenged).

 

Could you just give a brief explanation of the link. I'm on a quota of Herald articles per month, and I want to keep them for 'important' matters. :)

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Could you just give a brief explanation of the link. I'm on a quota of Herald articles per month, and I want to keep them for 'important' matters. :)

 

Buddhist ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Burma.

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I'd be interested in knowing if that Canadian thing has any real substance to it. It could just be the RCMP not wanting to get caught out so arresting anybody who they have any level of doubt about - and then shouting about it to the world.

Of course, sometimes even the most peaceful of religions turns mean: http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/world-news/buddhist-monks-are-accused-of-ethnic-cleansing.20883968

EDIT:

None of which is to say that there isn't a problem with young men in particular being radicalised by Islamism and nationalism. It's my belief that you don't solve the problem by further excluding(*) them or not engaging - which seems to be the Wolford Way.

(* = which does not mean allowing beliefs to go unchallenged).

Oh I grant you that no religion, even Buddhism (also have a look at monks' involvement in the Sri Lankan conflict) is "clean" but Islam is a lot worse than any other religion around today.

 

I don't think excluding people is the way to go but we should exclude ideologies. If Islamism is responsible for promoting terrorism (and I think it is undeniable) then why should be far more cautious of Islamic organisations e.g. schools than we currently are.

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Buddhist ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Burma.

IIRC that particular variety of Muslim are recent arrivals in Burma. Not that it makes them fair game, I'm just putting a bit of context.

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Didn't our police stand by and do nothing during our own recent spell of rioting and looting?

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Didn't our police stand by and do nothing during our own recent spell of rioting and looting?

How does that relate to anything in this thread?

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