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Sports Prophet

Clubs aiming beyond their capabilities

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So not all sports then... in fact hardly any.

I don't particularly agree with statties post but it would be easier for you to name sports that has never had clubs fold or merged. I cant think of any.

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I don't particularly agree with statties post but it would be easier for you to name sports that has never had clubs fold or merged. I cant think of any.

Of course clubs have folded (although mainly not when they are in the top flight) however, I can't think of many other sports other than the few Statties had quoted where clubs have merged to stay in the top flight. Can you?

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For yet another season the talking point in our country's major sport is the relegation dogfight in the Premier and the promotion from the championship

 

... and if the country’s major sport had the same structure as SL with an eight team play-off format, it would be about that. They would also have a more exciting end to the PL season to boot.

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Nice to see that nobody thinks Cumbria is worthy of a place in these leagues

Does anyone think they could command the necessary crowds ?

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Does anyone think they could command the necessary crowds ?

Stating the obvious I know...but this doesn't stop Salford or London.

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Done properly YES - but it would have to be marketed as a new franchise not as Workington, Whitehaven or Barrow.

Per head of population, the number of people attending matches at the three clubs above will be far higher than it is at Huddersfield, London or Salford, and a Superleague side that was winning its home games would command a 4-5k average attendance.

I'm not for one minute saying they will compete with the top six, but with additional funding from TV money they could certainly compete.

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A (cumbria) Superleague side that was winning its home games would command a 4-5k average attendance.

You can't compete at all on those crowds. Look at Cas

Slot in a multi-millionaire owner like O'Connor.

Then maybe.

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You can't compete at all on those crowds. Look at Cas

Slot in a multi-millionaire owner like O'Connor.

Then maybe.

Oof. 3 lines...

 

(Anyway, bored of this game now. Run wild and run free!)

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I think these proposals are ludicrous. They do not add to the strength of the game at all. They lessen the number of spectators and diminish overall interest.

 

Currently the two Hull clubs pull in about 19,000 spectators between them. If one went to the wall there is no way the other would pull in 19,000. there might be an increase at the remaining club but there would be a net loss to the game.

 

Widnes and Warrington pull in about 16 to 17,000 between them. If one went to the wall the remaining club would not average that number and, if they, did, there is no stadium to hold them.

 

The calder trio pull in 16 to 17,000 between them. If two went to the wall, there is no way the remaining club would average that number and once again there is no suitable stadium if they did, even if Newmarket is built.

 

RL needs to know where it;'s strengths are and it is not in clubs averaging 15,000. There will never be more than two or three of them. this is not Australia where there is no significant soccer threat. We have huge competition from soccer. Look at Huddersfield, the RL team is in the top three in the SL and the soccer team is facing relegation from the 2nd division and the soccer team outdraws the RL team by almost double. In Wigan, the most successful team ever in the game gets outdrawn by a team which wassn't in the league a few years ago and are pernnial relegation candidates.

 

Look at Bradford, City outdraw the Bulls, a team often touted for their attendances.

 

We need to forget this merger nonsense, allow all clubs to grow as best thery can and there are many encouraging signs that many are and make sure that the salary caps are lowered to make SL a stable competition on crowds in the 7,000 area and less if financing can be found as at the Giants, Salford and London.

 

A small SL struggling like crazy to exist in a vacuum demanding clubs averaging 15,000 is not the answer and will never happen. If it does it will be the final demise of the game.

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I think these proposals are ludicrous.

 

Currently the two Hull clubs pull in about 19,000 spectators between them. If one went to the wall there is no way the other would pull in 19,000.

 

Widnes and Warrington pull in about 16 to 17,000 between them. If one went to the wall the remaining club would not average that number

 

The calder trio pull in 16 to 17,000 between them. If two went to the wall, there is no way the remaining club would average that number

I've checked with our agent and he hasn't got us any bookings as the "Poison Brothers" I'll let you know if any come in.

Could you deal with this (kiss) point (hug) for me.

When clubs pull in more fans than they need they make a profit. When they pull in less than they need they make a loss.

So If in Hull the Rovers are out of SL pulling as low as 1,000 fans then of course Hull would not pick up the other 7,000 Rovers fans. They would stay at home.

But Hull did climb to 13,000 fans without Rovers input and they would make a profit and thrive at that. Of course 14,000 is less than the 19,000 and of course 5,000 RL fans end up sitting at home.

I'm sure your a businessman, and will understand the trick is to make a profit, not a loss and it's not just about one side of the coin i.e. fan numbers.

It's 17,000 fans who won't watch one club that means Calder is a mess. However if 12,000 will watch Wakefield only then they'll turn a profit and have bigger crowds than Wire and can compete.

5,000 lost fans but a more profitable and competitive game in Calder.

Flip that coin brother, there's another side to it (kisses and hugs all round)

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Which do people think would be better:

 

20 teams with 6k

10 teams with 10k

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I've checked with our agent and he hasn't got us any bookings as the "Poison Brothers" I'll let you know if any come in.

Could you deal with this (kiss) point (hug) for me.

When clubs pull in more fans than they need they make a profit. When they pull in less than they need they make a loss.

So If in Hull the Rovers are out of SL pulling as low as 1,000 fans then of course Hull would not pick up the other 7,000 Rovers fans. They would stay at home.

But Hull did climb to 13,000 fans without Rovers input and they would make a profit and thrive at that. Of course 14,000 is less than the 19,000 and of course 5,000 RL fans end up sitting at home.

I'm sure your a businessman, and will understand the trick is to make a profit, not a loss and it's not just about one side of the coin i.e. fan numbers.

It's 17,000 fans who won't watch one club that means Calder is a mess. However if 12,000 will watch Wakefield only then they'll turn a profit and have bigger crowds than Wire and can compete.

5,000 lost fans but a more profitable and competitive game in Calder.

Flip that coin brother, there's another side to it (kisses and hugs all round)

 

What you are saying is correct but it is a micro rather than a macro view. Our game is sometimes derided as being a minor sport. Contract the number of teams and diminish the number of spectators as will be the result, and the game will become an even more minor sport.

There is also a knock on effect on support for the national team from the loss of club spectators and we all agree how important international competition is.

I am not against RL teams averaging 15,000 or even 20,000 but it should be achieved on each clubs individual efforts and not piggy backed on the graves of existing clubs and the diminution of the fan numbers.

I don't think Sky would be too happy either when they see some 10,000 or more subscribers cancel and their revenues and viewing numbers dimisnish as a result.

As John Donne famously said " No man is an Island" and neither is any club. If you diminsh the whole, you might think you are strengthening the constituent parts, but, in fact, in the long run, the result will be a weakening of the whole.

Far better to get more teams into a competiton sustainable on current realities and expand the reach and attractiveness of the whole game and, breath it softly, even expand the size of the top league. There is strength in numbers and even top their soccer acknowledges that.

Some kook is trying to poison the US President and the Empress ofon was just buried so I think we two are low of the injurious subtsance leagye table. best just to let it go. The man did apologise after all.

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Which do people think would be better:

 

20 teams with 6k

10 teams with 10k

 

10 teams with 10 k, 20 teams with 6k and twin conferences incorporating both and operating under a slary cap that would make all sustainable even if it meant a levy on the top few to support the bottom echelon.

A bigger better spead of clubs is better than a small rump. There is more opportunity for all to make the playoffs and ramp up wider interest in the game rather tha a revolving door of three or four dominating a small concentrated competition.

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1. What you are saying is correct

2. Contract the number of teams and diminish the number of spectators as will be the result, and the game will become an even more minor sport.

1. Thank you Brother.

2. I appreciate the point. So does Peacock. If your right either way we lose.

(This two line reply is dedicated to Hindle X111)

damn... it's now three lines, er no four?

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Im a football fan and went to watch Oldham on Tuesday night in a game the team needed to win to avoid relegation. It was a great game to be at because it mattered to all 3,800 latics fans in the ground, P&R is the Only way forward. There is a reason it happens in every sport in this country, It even happens in Cricket now.

Yes you get literally dozens of people turning up for county cricket games

One if the main reasons all the versions of cricket such as 20/20 exist is because of county cricket is unsustainable

Yet again if you check there is no history of dramatic end of season relegation epics occurring in any meaningful numbers and even when they have in rugby league their effect on attendances is almost always minimal

Yet again: this compares badly to the negative effect of other aspect of prom and reg in rugby league

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Reading some of the posts on this forum at times, I sometimes think that some of the posters are trying to think beyond their capabilities. :dry:

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Reading some of the posts on this forum at times, I sometimes think that some of the posters are trying to think beyond their capabilities. :dry:

 

 

Reading some of the posts on this forum at times, I sometimes think that some of the posters are trying to think beyond their capabilities. :dry:

sorry mate, one can only do one's best. :lol:

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Yes you get literally dozens of people turning up for county cricket games

One if the main reasons all the versions of cricket such as 20/20 exist is because of county cricket is unsustainable

Yet again if you check there is no history of dramatic end of season relegation epics occurring in any meaningful numbers and even when they have in rugby league their effect on attendances is almost always minimal

Yet again: this compares badly to the negative effect of other aspect of prom and reg in rugby league

 

Yes you get literally dozens of people turning up for county cricket games

One if the main reasons all the versions of cricket such as 20/20 exist is because of county cricket is unsustainable

Yet again if you check there is no history of dramatic end of season relegation epics occurring in any meaningful numbers and even when they have in rugby league their effect on attendances is almost always minimal

Yet again: this compares badly to the negative effect of other aspect of prom and reg in rugby league

 

So your solution to the apathy of a declining number of supporters at matches is ?

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So your solution to the apathy of a declining number of supporters at matches is ?

 

 

So your solution to the apathy of a declining number of supporters at matches is ?

 

there is no trend of decline

 

but

 

a successful, well supported world cup would be nice-although for some bizarre reason supporters of at least one club actively oppose it.

 

An end to the recession

 

the rise and rise of clubs like Bradford salford and wakefield, who have had bad experiences that some people have gloated about, yet those same people have seen to have gone quiet about in the light of their bouncing back

 

a serious thoroughgoing examination of what is going on at London Broncos. The potential is massive, the game is established in the South east yet the club is massively under achieving.

 

a broadening of the competitiveness of Super League so that more clubs are capable of making a major impact. relegating one club and replacing it with a weaker one: the farce/joke/ laughing stock of Leigh replacing Castleford for instance several years ago demeans the competition rather than enhances it. If Featherstone for instance were to replace castleford-currently SL's weakest team, would they do any better-assuming they would be relegated immediately  as the period of grace that Widnes for instance enjoy, would be abandoned on principle. If not then it would be futile, expensive and quite possibly have catastrophic ramifications for both clubs.

 

and the acquisition of a credible main sponsor for the sport's flagship competition. Even in the previously mentioned recession this should not be beyond the capabilities of those who are employed to achieve this.

 

Do you seriously believe that bringing back a discredited structure to the professional game is the panacea that it needs? In itself risible, but also self serving and also the idea that one element will bring the game into some sunny carefree upland is untenable.

 

Super League is not a 'division' within a competition, it is a competition in itself. The championship is a competition with two divisions.

 

Again there is no downward trend in attendances.

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Which would give us a give us a team in Wakefield watched by a few thousand fans, a team in Cas watched by a few thousand fans, a team in Fev watched by a few thousand fans and the new Super Club watched by NO fans because they'll be spending their money watching THEIR team in Wakey, Cas or Fev.

Great post, why can't the merger mob get this into their thick skulls?

I will admit that there have been times when I have thought about the idea of an over arching "super" club with the three as feeders, but as you say, no one would watch it.

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Great post, why can't the merger mob get this into their thick skulls?

I will admit that there have been times when I have thought about the idea of an over arching "super" club with the three as feeders, but as you say, no one would watch it.

 

 

Great post, why can't the merger mob get this into their thick skulls?

I will admit that there have been times when I have thought about the idea of an over arching "super" club with the three as feeders, but as you say, no one would watch it.

the 'merger mob' are neither a mob or thick. They just don't see things the way you do.

 

I doubt whether a merger would work, certainly not over the short or medium term for reasons I've given-I'd appreciate your views on those reasons, but that doesn't make it a bad idea necessarily.

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So not all sports then... in fact hardly any.

 

 

Of course clubs have folded (although mainly not when they are in the top flight) however, I can't think of many other sports other than the few Statties had quoted where clubs have merged to stay in the top flight. Can you?

 

Well I named seven sports. Can you name me the same number of team sports (and you can include football) with higher attended leagues than the ones I recalled? Doubt you can even come up with the second.

 

If you want to dismiss my comments, fine, that is what these forums are for.

 

My challenge to you a.n.other is to try and be objective and structure an argument rather than talking like a fifth grader

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Great post, why can't the merger mob get this into their thick skulls?

I will admit that there have been times when I have thought about the idea of an over arching "super" club with the three as feeders, but as you say, no one would watch it.

 

Then I would put my eggs into one basket and give them the support and resources they need to grow as a club and build stronger community links. Whatever it is, the area can only sustain one SL club. 

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Well I named seven sports. Can you name me the same number of team sports (and you can include football) with higher attended leagues than the ones I recalled? Doubt you can even come up with the second.

 

If you want to dismiss my comments, fine, that is what these forums are for.

 

My challenge to you a.n.other is to try and be objective and structure an argument rather than talking like a fifth grader

 

 

 

And your challenge would be not to post pie in the sky ideas and back them up with stats about leagues that have no relvence to the game in this country. If you think mergers are the way forward, then fine, you imo are wrong, but you of course are entitled to your opinion.

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