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The Daddy

Sam Tomkins to NZ Warriors in 2015 (merged threads)

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Perhaps he's basing it on the fact that he won Super League (with a team inherited from Brian Smith) but has been unremittingly useless in the NRL.

The big question here should be: how is Matt Elliott still managing to find employment as a head coach? Frankly, it's baffling.

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It depends. I suspect pretty soon we will have a 10 10 split SL, with a higher cap and a dispensation for a marquee player. Who knows what will happen with exchange rates? If the WC is a success the spin off benefits could be considerable.

If, say, Hampshire steps up, he may be less essential to us than he is today.

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Ellery Hanley was only regarded as the best player in the world once he had dominated the NRL, I would love to see Sam do the same.

If we could get Hall, Watkins, Briscoe, Clark and more to go then we could start having mid season international's over in oz and beat them.

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Ellery Hanley was only regarded as the best player in the world once he had dominated the NRL, I would love to see Sam do the same.

If we could get Hall, Watkins, Briscoe, Clark and more to go then we could start having mid season international's over in oz and beat them.

Clark?

It would be intriguing to reach a point where we would have a full team in the NRL. Perhaps they could organise aeries games to get hose Islanders who wanted to stick with Samoa, Tonga etc, a representative game?

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Clark, the young hooker at castleford, if there is a near full side out there then I imagine it would be our near full first choice England team.

Also I can't imagine it being too taxi g if its just the odd player to be flown over from super league.

My view is that we have always had the talent it's just been a mental thing that has held is back from beating the Australians consistently.

If the majority of the team are plying their trade out there then the myth and mental block surrounding the kangaroos will disappear. Especially if Sam does go over and boss it, we could end up having the best forward and back in the world. (Burgess)

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The New Zealand example demonstrates how important it is for as many of England's best players as possible go and play in the NRL.

Without a 10 team Super League that concentrates both the talent and the tv money and a proper representative series to mimic the State of Origin the gap with the NRL will grow and grow.

The best short term solution is to send the best players to Australia. Until British rugby league is rich enough to attract players in the other direction then that is the way it has to be.

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Back to the Topic in question. This is a done deal, and will come early with huge transfer fee to allow the move to go through in 2014.

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It depends. I suspect pretty soon we will have a 10 10 split SL, with a higher cap and a dispensation for a marquee player. Who knows what will happen with exchange rates? If the WC is a success the spin off benefits could be considerable.

If, say, Hampshire steps up, he may be less essential to us than he is today.

Marquee player dispensation needs to be brought in (for those who want/are able to make use of it) from 2014.

We achieve nothing by putting it off and risk losing our most valuable assets in the meantime.

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How about a marquee player excemption, but the said player has to be European.

Or

The cap is extended but teams are only allowed 1 non European player.

(and no passport fiddles either)

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I thought there was already an increase in the cap for a marquee player for the last time Precious had a contract merry-go-round?

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I thought there was already an increase in the cap for a marquee player for the last time Precious had a contract merry-go-round?

Nope! The fudge made was that a percentage of one (per team I think) home grown player who had played at the club for over 10 years had a percentage of their wage not count on the cap. I can't remember the percentage but I remember the player that made the difference was O'Loughlan

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that article wasn't quite right I believe. Andy Wilson's set of 6 from the time (point 3) says what the dispensation actually was. So it wasn't just a special 'wigan goldenboy' dispensation, I believe Leeds et al have benefited as well.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/nov/09/sam-joel-tomkins-england-new-zealand

I'd make a link in the document, but now I can post again in Chrome all the options on the editor are greyed out :(

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This could also argue whether it worked or not!

 

The money available in the NRL means that any increase here is probably not going to make a huge difference, but as has happened before, it should hopefully see us unearth more homegrown players to replace them

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that article wasn't quite right I believe. Andy Wilson's set of 6 from the time (point 3) says what the dispensation actually was. So it wasn't just a special 'wigan goldenboy' dispensation, I believe Leeds et al have benefited as well.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2011/nov/09/sam-joel-tomkins-england-new-zealand

I'd make a link in the document, but now I can post again in Chrome all the options on the editor are greyed out :(

I knew there was a "testimonial exemption" but I just assumed that had been around for a while and was in addition to this. 'My' link was to do with producing England players, which is probably why Leeds are always under the cap... half a dozen must be on both the testimonial exemption AND the international one. ;)

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I knew there was a "testimonial exemption" but I just assumed that had been around for a while and was in addition to this. 'My' link was to do with producing England players, which is probably why Leeds are always under the cap... half a dozen must be on both the testimonial exemption AND the international one. ;)

I think it was Derwent who showed on here that the actual cap if you use all the exemptions is about £2.6m.

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I knew there was a "testimonial exemption" but I just assumed that had been around for a while and was in addition to this. 'My' link was to do with producing England players, which is probably why Leeds are always under the cap... half a dozen must be on both the testimonial exemption AND the international one. ;)

Fair point. It was just with you're previous reference to Precious (who I'm assuming is S Tomkins) I thought we were discussing what allowed Wigan to up his contract.

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Fair point. It was just with you're previous reference to Precious (who I'm assuming is S Tomkins) I thought we were discussing what allowed Wigan to up his contract.

Heh, yeah sorry just a bit of a pointy stick from t'other year that nickname!

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OK lets start with Widdop.

He is surrounded by some of the best going around true and, not simply in the NRL but in the entire world of R/L.

But surely the fact that he can come through the junior ranks at Melbourne, gain his stand off spot and become easily the first choice player in that position for a club such as Melbourne marks the lad out as being a litle more than one simply fortunate enough to have such as Cronk, Smith, etc on the same team?

Or his is a special case, one where he is simply the benefactor from being at Melbourne and not at Parramatta, say?

Somehow, I believe that the unarguable best club coach in the world of R/L may just have seen through that were it so, don't you all?

Now for Sam. The scenario printed by one contributor on previously this thread, straight from wonderland, wherein we whack the Aussies and go on to contest the WC final V the Kiwi's, with Sam displaying his talents superbly and winning ( single handedly? ) the final for us.

I for one sincerely hope that will be the case.

,But! Just Imagine that the same scenario follows all of that hyperbole to the letter, except that in the final, Sam has one of his horror shows, under the high balls from say Johnson and Marshall and, the consequence of that turns out to be that Sam is seen not as the F/Back to wish for, but as one that could not cope with that position in the NRL?

I hate to say this but in my experience of Sam Tomkins faced with such plays I do fear that could be the case more than the former that we dwelt upon.

I would if an NRL club be most wary of Tomkins ability to cope with the very accurate kicks that each and every NRL F/Back has to do and on a weekly basis at that.

I wholeheartedly agree with the comments on Sam in an attacking dimension but he is far from being the same player when faced with situations such as that one typified above, as good as he is on attack the fact remains that unless he improves under high balls he could prove the achilles heel of the England side let alone its saviour!

Would he make it in the NRL, I am certain he could, but whether it would be at F/Back.......? I am not so certain.

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What about a salary cap exemption for selected European international players so long as they can be made available for their nations in mid-season tests, thus allowing the RFL to stage more test matches mid-season like in union?

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OK lets start with Widdop.

He is surrounded by some of the best going around true and, not simply in the NRL but in the entire world of R/L.

But surely the fact that he can come through the junior ranks at Melbourne, gain his stand off spot and become easily the first choice player in that position for a club such as Melbourne marks the lad out as being a litle more than one simply fortunate enough to have such as Cronk, Smith, etc on the same team?

Or his is a special case, one where he is simply the benefactor from being at Melbourne and not at Parramatta, say?

Somehow, I believe that the unarguable best club coach in the world of R/L may just have seen through that were it so, don't you all?

Now for Sam. The scenario printed by one contributor on previously this thread, straight from wonderland, wherein we whack the Aussies and go on to contest the WC final V the Kiwi's, with Sam displaying his talents superbly and winning ( single handedly? ) the final for us.

I for one sincerely hope that will be the case.

,But! Just Imagine that the same scenario follows all of that hyperbole to the letter, except that in the final, Sam has one of his horror shows, under the high balls from say Johnson and Marshall and, the consequence of that turns out to be that Sam is seen not as the F/Back to wish for, but as one that could not cope with that position in the NRL?

I hate to say this but in my experience of Sam Tomkins faced with such plays I do fear that could be the case more than the former that we dwelt upon.

I would if an NRL club be most wary of Tomkins ability to cope with the very accurate kicks that each and every NRL F/Back has to do and on a weekly basis at that.

I wholeheartedly agree with the comments on Sam in an attacking dimension but he is far from being the same player when faced with situations such as that one typified above, as good as he is on attack the fact remains that unless he improves under high balls he could prove the achilles heel of the England side let alone its saviour!

Would he make it in the NRL, I am certain he could, but whether it would be at F/Back.......? I am not so certain.

And Slater never drops anything? Then again Slaters reliability on kick returns probably helps against the kiwis...

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tomkins will go to union with joel, become one of the biggest names and highly paid stars their sport has ever seen, edwards farrel and phil clarke will see to that, good luck to him whatever he does, hope he stays in rl but find it highly unlikely -returning to eng at 30 something, as forgotten no-body wont keep in in "question of sport " appearences and countless other money making celebrity spin offs to keep him and his family comfy for the rest of their days, sorry but thats just how it is and no one will be able to blame him when he goes -which he will.

 

Since bedlam breakout considers Question of Sport appearances to be the height of sporting achievement, he'll have been delighted to see Kevin Sinfield on tonight's edition.

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OK lets start with Widdop.

He is surrounded by some of the best going around true and, not simply in the NRL but in the entire world of R/L.

But surely the fact that he can come through the junior ranks at Melbourne, gain his stand off spot and become easily the first choice player in that position for a club such as Melbourne marks the lad out as being a litle more than one simply fortunate enough to have such as Cronk, Smith, etc on the same team?

Or his is a special case, one where he is simply the benefactor from being at Melbourne and not at Parramatta, say?

Somehow, I believe that the unarguable best club coach in the world of R/L may just have seen through that were it so, don't you all?

Now for Sam. The scenario printed by one contributor on previously this thread, straight from wonderland, wherein we whack the Aussies and go on to contest the WC final V the Kiwi's, with Sam displaying his talents superbly and winning ( single handedly? ) the final for us.

I for one sincerely hope that will be the case.

,But! Just Imagine that the same scenario follows all of that hyperbole to the letter, except that in the final, Sam has one of his horror shows, under the high balls from say Johnson and Marshall and, the consequence of that turns out to be that Sam is seen not as the F/Back to wish for, but as one that could not cope with that position in the NRL?

I hate to say this but in my experience of Sam Tomkins faced with such plays I do fear that could be the case more than the former that we dwelt upon.

I would if an NRL club be most wary of Tomkins ability to cope with the very accurate kicks that each and every NRL F/Back has to do and on a weekly basis at that.

I wholeheartedly agree with the comments on Sam in an attacking dimension but he is far from being the same player when faced with situations such as that one typified above, as good as he is on attack the fact remains that unless he improves under high balls he could prove the achilles heel of the England side let alone its saviour!

Would he make it in the NRL, I am certain he could, but whether it would be at F/Back.......? I am not so certain.

 

Sam is quality but it is inexcusable that someone of his reputed talent has not sorted out his issues under the high ball.

 

Which is why Hardaker is a better bet at full back for a wet Autumn night at Old Trafford IMO.

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