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gnidir

Calder, it is time?

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Not aiming to wind people up here, but the original superleague proposed a Calder team.

I'm starting to think this is a good option. No mergers, cas fev and Wakefield I a competitive championship, but all three owning the Calder team in superleague.

My reasons are that cas have traditionally been the best supported of the 3, though they are struggling at the minute, Wakefield is the city club, has the stadium but a smaller share of fans, and fev has the youth system, is doing some great stuff off the field, but is a tiny place.

If we want superleague to be a strong European competition, wouldn't pooling those resources create a strong club, with the potential for 15k fans each week? A bigger catchment area, without destroying the rivalries of cas fev and Wakefield.

Surely working together is better for the game than fighting it out and destroying each other in the process? Keep the tradition, but unite for a strong future? One capable if winning titles?

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I would propose an ownership split 4 ways, cas fev Wakefield and sle, with the sle only filling the function when in dispute resolution. Independant CEO and hopefully the best talent of all teams being fed upwards, so the fans see their players in the superleague

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Not aiming to wind people up here, but the original superleague proposed a Calder team.

I'm starting to think this is a good option. No mergers, cas fev and Wakefield I a competitive championship, but all three owning the Calder team in superleague.

My reasons are that cas have traditionally been the best supported of the 3, though they are struggling at the minute, Wakefield is the city club, has the stadium but a smaller share of fans, and fev has the youth system, is doing some great stuff off the field, but is a tiny place.

If we want superleague to be a strong European competition, wouldn't pooling those resources create a strong club, with the potential for 15k fans each week? A bigger catchment area, without destroying the rivalries of cas fev and Wakefield.

Surely working together is better for the game than fighting it out and destroying each other in the process? Keep the tradition, but unite for a strong future? One capable if winning titles?

Wakefieldmhas the stadium??

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Cas fev and Wakefield in a competitive championship, but all three owning the Calder team in superleague.

How does that work?

You want as may fans as possible to gravitate to the SL club yet you retain every reason for them to continue support their own club. On the other hand you place the three clubs in a championship they'll never get out of so you hamper both ends of the deal you propose. Mergers are dead but this idea was never alive. You indicate there's not enough resources for three clubs in the Calder area then propose a fourth? Who are people supposed to support? A dying traditional club or a Superleague club held back by the retention of tradition?

Wakefields is the city the crowds are on the up and an attractive ground is on the way. I'd guess RFL/SLE will hope this club rises to dominate the area without any contrivances.....

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Should have happened when it was first proposed. Would it be run by the RFL/ SLE?

too many vested interests

too many people who get more out of the divisions they have imposed upon themselves rather than what unites them

ingrained parochialism

a strong reactionary culture

a pride in past achievements that it's percieved will be lost

an enjoyment of what they have now and it's percieved certainties

an automatic objection to anything put forward by thegoverning  body

money

the immensity of the challenge even supposing there was sufficient goodwill

the likely re emergence of the 'tears ofthe calder' factor

being asked to take a massive leap of faith: identification with one's club is extremely strong.

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I would propose an ownership split 4 ways, cas fev Wakefield and sle, with the sle only filling the function when in dispute resolution. Independant CEO and hopefully the best talent of all teams being fed upwards, so the fans see their players in the superleague

Unless one club draws all the fans sponsors and has the money to attract the local talent, they'll still go to Hull, Leeds, Saints, Warrington or wherever.

Splitting resources 4 ways instead of three will just further deplete these clubs. Put some figures on the likely crowds for your idea without assuming fans will watch two of the four clubs. Why would they??

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Unless one club draws all the fans sponsors and has the money to attract the local talent, they'll still go to Hull, Leeds, Saints, Warrington or wherever.

Splitting resources 4 ways instead of three will just further deplete these clubs. Put some figures on the likely crowds for your idea without assuming fans will watch two of the four clubs. Why would they??

not just crowds but sponsors

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So you can't support two clubs who will in all likelihood never play each other?

As you said, Wakefield may rise to dominance, but how big a club can they be?

As I said, I'm not aiming to wind people up, I don't support any if the teams, I'm just asking the question. From my perspective, it benefits the game more to have a presence from the area in the top flight, but I am questioning whether any of the three are able to rival Catalans for example, who are in a position to grow and grow, even with the inclusion of Toulouse, they have a broad base for players and support. Fans from ffr13 clubs also go along to watch them, this is the way I'm looking at it. I'm merely posing the question of whether it would be the answer in the area

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So you can't support two clubs who will in all likelihood never play each other?

You can but many people's wallets can't support two clubs.

When you watch two clubs (I watch Leeds and Hunslet) you only really get excited about one.

Your asking thousands of people to behave in a way they don't behave. IMHO the majority of fans have an affinity for one club and can only afford to watch one club.

The numbers won't stack up.

What stacks up is the rising numbers watching Wakefield, and the proposed new stadium that could get them to 10,000 crowds and more.

Had Mr. Nahaboo decided to back that with his money it would be the perfect solution.

But even the money men go with their hearts and I can't see many people's hearts being in your proposal.

I'd guess you'd end with three championship clubs on 900 crowds and a loss making SL club on 5,000 at best.

All the best juniors still leaving to Leeds, Hull, Wire, Wigan and Saints.

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So what future does everyone else see? Is there another solution which benefits the game?

I agree that the three existing teams would eventually fall in support with a superleague team being the glory club, it's what happened with wears tigers and the dragons.

It's very similar here in nz with super rugby, but from what I can see, it's really benefitted the union lot here, granted its a different thing with different politics, but the blues for example are drawing good crowds, they play in a much more exciting comp than the nz one.

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Can you please explain the "Wakefield has the stadium" comment?

Post a pic if possible

Thanks

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Without wanting to start an argument, from what I can gather, the cas stadium has gone, that's why ferris resigned, Wakefield seem to be the most vibrant f the clubs at the minute, it looks likely their stadium will go ahead.

The fact is irrelevant, I was posing the question of the most positive outcome for the game, but much of the feedback seems to indicate it's not wanted. I can't see another way for the game to prosper at the top level in the area. So, at best it seems many of the posters here are content to merely survive.

I suppose if that is the case, which is the most attractive proposition, Toulouse or cas? Or Wakefield? Superleague is surely a competition aimed at growth and commercial prosperity is it not?

Does this open up the further question if whether some big decisions need to be made at the next round of licensing?

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Why Toulouse?

What can they offer that "Calder" can't?

FYI at thee nd of the Widnes game 12 of the 13 on the pitch were Cas academy players

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Calder must be a Wakefield stand alone venture - why?  Simple, it'sthe only one of the three actally on the Calder. Cas is on the Aire, adn Fev is on the railway. ;)

Seriously, if a neutral site for a stadium could be found and if the fans of both clubs could agree I could see a Cas/Fev club having a chance.  Sykehouse United?

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People wont have it though. A few club mergers would be best for Rugby League in the country. The fans wont have it though.

 

Calder Team and a Greater Manchester Team would be my calls but im in a minority.

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Calder must be a Wakefield stand alone venture - why?  Simple, it'sthe only one of the three actally on the Calder. Cas is on the Aire, adn Fev is on the railway. ;)

Seriously, if a neutral site for a stadium could be found and if the fans of both clubs could agree I could see a Cas/Fev club having a chance.  Sykehouse United?

You've mellowed and matured.

I'd call such a club "Pontefract"!!!!

Here's the wishful thinking 7,000 Cas fans + 5,000 Fev fans = 12,000 self sufficient crowds, hottest area for Junior talent the club can then afford to keep = on field success......more growth....

Trojan supports merger shock horror probe......

GNIDR here's the positive thinking you want.

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You've mellowed and matured.

I'd call such a club "Pontefract"!!!!

Here's the wishful thinking 7,000 Cas fans + 5,000 Fev fans = 12,000 self sufficient crowds, hottest area for Junior talent the club can then afford to keep = on field success......more growth....

Trojan supports merger shock horror probe......

GNIDR here's the positive thinking you want.

 

 

There are a couple of very big "ifs" in there. Personally I can't see it happening. Especially if Cas nick our coach and the bitterness is renewed . Cas would have to get rid of Chase too!

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1. Without wanting to start an argument.

2. From what I can gather, the cas stadium has gone, Wakefield seem to be the most vibrant f the clubs at the minute, it looks likely their stadium will go ahead.

3. I was posing the question of the most positive outcome for the game, but much of the feedback seems to indicate it's not wanted. I can't see another way for the game to prosper at the top level in the area. So, at best it seems many of the posters here are content to merely survive.

4. Does this open up the further question if whether some big decisions need to be made at the next round of licensing?

1. It's not an argument it's a debate and that's what the site is for so start one! Don't be put off by anyone your free to post away.

2. Cas stadium money problems, Wakey stadium not a sod turned. We work on the we believe it when we see it principle here, but it's a decent bet.

3. Not a matter of "not wanted". There were three clubs in Leeds playing semi pro independently, now there's only one highly successful independent club, the other is the "A" team and the third gone. There are models like this that work. This could happen in places like Calder and Hull. I guess that's what could happen.

4. Moving to a ten club SL that could be without P & R is a big decision being mooted at this very point in time. This is a massive massive decision, the biggest since SL started.

It could give those chosen just the boost they need to kick on.

It could give those not chosen an almost certain decline into being "junior" semi pro clubs.

IMHO of course!!!

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in principle the 'M' word makes sense (to me anyway), but i have doubts as to whether a new combined club, with the existing clubs feeding it, would generate anything other than a few thousand fans, if that. you'd still get the hardcore fans of each club going to see they're own team play in the lower leagues.

 

The only way to get anything close to the figures of 15,000 that are being thrown around is for all three clubs to cease to be, form one club, and work they're nads off to engage with fans of all three clubs in the hope they buy into any new club. Which is obviously extremely risky, and would take 10 years or so of perseverance. And as a RL fan i would hate to see three clubs with such fantastic history and tradition in the game cease to be.

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The only way to get anything close to the figures of 15,000 that are being thrown around is for all three clubs to cease to be, form one club, and work they're nads off to engage with fans of all three clubs in the hope they buy into any new club. Which is obviously extremely risky, and would take 10 years or so of perseverance. And as a RL fan i would hate to see three clubs with such fantastic history and tradition in the game cease to be.

I don't agree here.

You indicate that a Calder club could be formed lets say at Newmarket Lane.

Then you take a big "risk" with "hope" (your words)and ask died in the wool Cas fans and died in the wool Fev fans to go support it.

You also take away a Wakefield Trinity that has been "on the up" since Glover took over and who on Sunday had an 8,000 crowd for a competitive clash with Warrington one of our biggest clubs.

You then ask those Wakefield fans to support "Calder". I think I know what their attitude would be when they are all getting behind the club because they rightly think it can go places, and you snatch it away.

The best model IMHO and i bet this is what's in Glovers head and will IMHO be in Wood and hetheringtons heads is Cas and Fev leave SL so Wakefield are the only SL gig in the area, Wakefield then get in Newmarket which boosts crowds further, and slowly over 10 years local junior players decide to sign on at Wakefield rather than Leeds, Saints or Hull etc.

Then every year Wakey park their season ticket bus in Cas, Normanton, Ponte, Fev etc etc and look to slowly build on new generations of fans without the old tribal animosities, maybe picking up a few hundred a year if they compete on the field.

Wether they will end up with 11K crowds like Wire or 15K crowds like Wigan who knows, but as long as they end up another big club the game will be all the better for it and this model is not based on either risk or hope.

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No area's or clubs could argue against mergers if only leeds & bradford would lead the way and merge.

We could then start to talk about potential 20k+ gates instead of scratching around hoping for 10k gates

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I think all Yorkshire teams should merge and all NW teams should merge. we can then have 2super teams which may attract crowds of 100,000 each week. these teams could play 24 games a year.

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