Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

gnidir

Calder, it is time?

281 posts in this topic

No need to propose anything for Hudds. The spirited response from Fev, cas and Wakey fans on here covers the main issues. Also it's not about "Calder" per se. ..it's merely a good example. In the end, though, the outcome will be decided by the realities of life in the 21St century.

But that doesn't answer the question I pose regarding the feasibility of financing of such ventures. I'd like to hear how the pro merger people on here would address that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nailed

Seconded!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With respect, you and Forever Trinity are not the future consumers of rugby league. Nor am I and nor are the vast majority of those of us on this forum. The future consumers are younger, more media savvy and do not share the same affiliations, nor (in many cases) the blinkered and often antagonistic views of where the game should go next (based, usually, on nothing more than where it has been).

Whether you like it or not, rugby league owes you no favours and will continue without you. I'm sure it would like you on board but (and this is just my opinion) it should pay little mind to what you say as you are living in the past and will unwittingly destroy the game if paid more than a cursory heed.

Well said Keeny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No victimhood, and I have no problem with opposing views (if I didnt talk to somebody I had a disagreement with id never speak to anyone)

This is about being told I am the sort of person whos holding the game back because of how I believe the game should be going.

Ive seen people banned for very little reason and id much rather be on the terraces watching the game than talking to the cretins that inhabit the forums.

I don't think anyone on here is a cretin event he ones who's views I don't share

I think that if you hold a view any view that you believe is progressive and the way forward then views that oppose that have a good chance of being seen as regressive

Especially if those views favour a return to a discredited way of doing things

I don't know whether mergers are a good idea or not, although if it wasn't for a merger there would quite possibly be no featherstone rovers as we know them

But I'd be up for giving it a go if I felt it took rugby league forward sometimes a leap of faith can be invigorating. I also find 'entrenched' ideas and opinions reactionary and unproductive as well as dreary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your opinion I neither care about or share. But as long as fev exist as an independent club I will follow them. To say people like me aren't the future or rl ignores the fact that I sincerely hope to be a purchaser of the product for at least another 20+years!And you know the attitudes of all the youth, young adults and juniors who follow wakey/fev? Where is the link to that study?

I will be a purchaser for the next 20 years too if fate allows.

I'll probably spend it all on Superleague games, cup finals and Internationals, but take in a few Hunslet games for old time's sake.

The latter income will help keep Hunslet alive.

The former income will help the game of Rugby League thrive.

Not enough fans watch clubs like HKR and Cas and so these clubs make losses, so you cannot assume that your £10 is as important as another fans £10.

Some of us are spending to keep dead businesses going, some of us are contributing to the profitability of the game.

NOT HAVING A GO good sir, it's just how this business is.

As to how kids react, going round Leeds the dads and grandads haven't influenced kids into watching Hunslet and Bramley. They all want Superleague.

Meetings to keep Hunslet and Leigh alive were mainly attended by old men.

That's the best study I can manage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And financial Darwinism will produce a winner. What you want is for is for God in the shape of the RFL or SL, to intervene and kill or order hari kari on teams to ensure that whomsoever is deemed to be the fittest shall survive.

That's not natural sporting evolution, it's unfair market manipulation.

Rugby league doesn't exist in a financial Galapagos archipelago though

The real Darwinism is going on in the outside world that it is part of. History and attitudes within the sport have dealt it a very weak hand

That's one of the reasons why being bold rather than conservative have been its saviour

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was involved with the original protests against the mergers back in 1995 and even 18 years without top flight rugby for my club, I would not change a thing. Fev, Cas and Wakey are all good clubs by there own right and there is clearly major issues in the game that needs to be addressed and not this.

The way some people post on here you would think that we are blessed with all SL clubs having a 20k attendances. Merger would be the end of the game for me but I suppose there would be thousands of new fans lined up to take my place if it happened? Meanwhile back in the real world

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NOT HAVING A GO good sir, .

.

I know you're not. It ok to disagree. I fundamentally disagree with most of your stance on the direction rugby league is going. Wouldn't stop me buyin thi a pint and have you listen to even more of my dreary sheeeeiiiiite! :lol:

Love n peace.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was involved with the original protests against the mergers back in 1995 and even 18 years without top flight rugby for my club, I would not change a thing. Fev, Cas and Wakey are all good clubs by there own right and there is clearly major issues in the game that needs to be addressed and not this.

The way some people post on here you would think that we are blessed with all SL clubs having a 20k attendances. Merger would be the end of the game for me but I suppose there would be thousands of new fans lined up to take my place if it happened? Meanwhile back in the real world

Is it me n thee n Terry v the world again?? :lol:

Agreed 100% .... again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If an when it happens I just hope we are spared the tears of the calder and all tat went with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Understood. It's a long term thing, though. If, and of course it's a big IF, the three clubs joined in some way, then newer, younger fans would in my view take your place.

However, such a joining will not take place voluntarily and we'll inevitably end up with just one SL club in the area and it won.t be Feb as the critical mass of support just ain't there.

 

And children are not influenced by their parents or their peers. Both of these influences shaped my allegiance to Keighley from the age of about 6. If Fev are increasing their attendances as we speak, then it follows, ipso facto, that they are also increasing their future fan base.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And children are not influenced by their parents or their peers. Both of these influences shaped my allegiance to Keighley from the age of about 6. If Fev are increasing their attendances as we speak, then it follows, ipso facto, that they are also increasing their future fan base.

Absolutely, I'd say at least 20% of the crowd are under 16, this is largely thanks to the great community work the club do in the local schools.

I never influenced my son's choice of team, I'd long fallen out of love with the game when he started taking an interest. It was him that dragged me back to the game, at Featherstone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And children are not influenced by their parents or their peers. Both of these influences shaped my allegiance to Keighley from the age of about 6. If Fev are increasing their attendances as we speak, then it follows, ipso facto, that they are also increasing their future fan base.

So dad's a murderer therefore son's a murderer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So dad's a murderer therefore son's a murderer.

No, but there is lots of bloody good research available (I can ref this if req), that those growing up in a violent household are much much more likely to be convicted of a violent offence when they become adults!

So in answer to your question, ... no, not necessarily but more more likely than a son who's dad is not a murderer!!

Daft analogy, but I hooe that answers ya question me owd cocker!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never influenced my son's choice of team, I'd long fallen out of love with the game when he started taking an interest. It was him that dragged me back to the game, at Featherstone.

I have influenced my son and I am proud that he enjoys watching the Rovers. If he wanted to change to support a glory hunting SL club then it would not really bother me but he would need to find some other mug to take him because I wold deffintily not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My daughter watches rovers because of me. She watches Sheffield Wednesday inspite of my protests!

I still pay for her to watch fev and shes 28! If she wanted to watch leeds she can find her own way to Headingley and happen pay for her sen!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The crucial aspect the staunch Wakey, Cas and Fev fans forget is that - without knowing a great deal about them - I'm guessing they're of a certain age and were thus born during or not long after periods of success or genuine competitiveness, back when those teams had no inferiority complex to the likes of Leeds and the other (now) big boys and games between them were a coin toss. The kids growing up in those areas now will have the same degree of local pride (of course) but Parky's hit the nail on the head - they want Super League and - more crucially - a team without such an inferiority complex. There's really no getting away from that, however passionate you are about your historic club. Parky is right that left to their own devices these fanbases will slowly erode year in, year out with every calibre player departure and every passing around the terraces of the bucket to stave off the administrator. That just isn't an attractive proposition to kids. The posters on here are actually selfish IMHO because they never had to put up with that in their own youth yet expect future generations to do so in their name and merely to prolong an archaic, out-of-date structure so they themselves can die knowing that they were "Wakey/Cas/Fev to the end", whatever this means. If the Hull clubs merge - and I suspect they will at some point - I will embrace the new club and consider myself no less "Hull KR til the end" than the King Canutes noisily drowning in their own self-pity (who, incidentally, will be long forgotten only a few years down the line). If anyone here has an issue with that, fine. I'd rather enjoy a level playing field and see good rugby week in, week out than waste my energy on a lost cause.

I don't like Parky's idea of just allowing Cas and Fev to rot and Wakey to cash-in, for 2 reasons:

(1) It's cowardly and dishonest, and

(2) It's potentially divisive. A go-alone SL Wakey might have the pick of the Cas and Fev kids for their fanbase but when they tour schools etc. there would still be an element of the pillaging invader about them and the inevitable animosity from the elders - whilst often no more than petulance at not getting their way - would nonetheless have more credence. As a Cas or Fev kid you'd feel like something of a traitor or hanger-on following that side, whereas a club called Calder is no less yours than anyone else in that region and would be a source of great pride to those kids. The same is true of Hull and potentially Hudds/Halifax and Warrington/Widnes if it needs to be done there as well. Waiting for 1 of the sides to consume or overpower the other(s) is simply the wrong and weasly way to go.

Calder needs to be done so let's do it right. Wakey fans have no greater claim to a lone Calder SL franchise than Cas or Fev. That they are currently a bit stronger should be irrelevant. RL for once needs a brave and joined-up approach to a difficult issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there anyway of stopping from Fev and Cas rotting though DSK? If Wakefield get the ground I feel they'll start progressing alot faster than Cas and Fev, well to be fair Cas seem to be on a slide but having a new ground with nearly 10k fans is going to be more attractive to the younger population than the other two.

Lets say if Wakefield get a new ground, start achieving 10k and progress into the top 6, how are Cas and Fev meant to compete for the majority of the kids and fans. I just couldn't see it happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there anyway of stopping from Fev and Cas rotting though DSK? If Wakefield get the ground I feel they'll start progressing alot faster than Cas and Fev, well to be fair Cas seem to be on a slide but having a new ground with nearly 10k fans is going to be more attractive to the younger population than the other two.

Lets say if Wakefield get a new ground, start achieving 10k and progress into the top 6, how are Cas and Fev meant to compete for the majority of the kids and fans. I just couldn't see it happening.

I agree with you. My point is that I don't want to see any side rot or any neighbours feast Vulture-like on their carcass. I want to see a mature, inclusive solution. There should be 1 Calder SL franchise and it should be specifically named for everyone in Calder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rugby league doesn't exist in a financial Galapagos archipelago though

The real Darwinism is going on in the outside world that it is part of. History and attitudes within the sport have dealt it a very weak hand

That's one of the reasons why being bold rather than conservative have been its saviour

 

Indeed and regression and retrenchment allied with overwhelming greed and failure to see a macro picture are defintely not bold but are the very definition of conservatism. What you want to do is be a Deus ex machina and intercede in the natural evolution of the sport for the benefit of a very small part at the top. The carnivores used to be at the top end of the food chain but where are they now.? You want to feed the SL big cats meat from the rotting carcase of the game, rotting and dead because we allowed you all to kill it..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know you're not. It ok to disagree. I fundamentally disagree with most of your stance on the direction rugby league is going. Wouldn't stop me buyin thi a pint and have you listen to even more of my dreary sheeeeiiiiite! :lol:

Love n peace.....

 

Me too Parksider.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So dad's a murderer therefore son's a murderer.

 That's a ludicrous comparison but if you must go there then, yes, patterns of violence and abuse and mysoginism and drug use can be and often are learned behaviours. Trust me I,ve seen it many times in my former line of work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The crucial aspect the staunch Wakey, Cas and Fev fans forget is that - without knowing a great deal about them - I'm guessing they're of a certain age and were thus born during or not long after periods of success or genuine competitiveness, back when those teams had no inferiority complex to the likes of Leeds and the other (now) big boys and games between them were a coin toss. The kids growing up in those areas now will have the same degree of local pride (of course) but Parky's hit the nail on the head - they want Super League and - more crucially - a team without such an inferiority complex. There's really no getting away from that, however passionate you are about your historic club. Parky is right that left to their own devices these fanbases will slowly erode year in, year out with every calibre player departure and every passing around the terraces of the bucket to stave off the administrator. That just isn't an attractive proposition to kids. The posters on here are actually selfish IMHO because they never had to put up with that in their own youth yet expect future generations to do so in their name and merely to prolong an archaic, out-of-date structure so they themselves can die knowing that they were "Wakey/Cas/Fev to the end", whatever this means. If the Hull clubs merge - and I suspect they will at some point - I will embrace the new club and consider myself no less "Hull KR til the end" than the King Canutes noisily drowning in their own self-pity (who, incidentally, will be long forgotten only a few years down the line). If anyone here has an issue with that, fine. I'd rather enjoy a level playing field and see good rugby week in, week out than waste my energy on a lost cause.

I don't like Parky's idea of just allowing Cas and Fev to rot and Wakey to cash-in, for 2 reasons:

(1) It's cowardly and dishonest, and

(2) It's potentially divisive. A go-alone SL Wakey might have the pick of the Cas and Fev kids for their fanbase but when they tour schools etc. there would still be an element of the pillaging invader about them and the inevitable animosity from the elders - whilst often no more than petulance at not getting their way - would nonetheless have more credence. As a Cas or Fev kid you'd feel like something of a traitor or hanger-on following that side, whereas a club called Calder is no less yours than anyone else in that region and would be a source of great pride to those kids. The same is true of Hull and potentially Hudds/Halifax and Warrington/Widnes if it needs to be done there as well. Waiting for 1 of the sides to consume or overpower the other(s) is simply the wrong and weasly way to go.

Calder needs to be done so let's do it right. Wakey fans have no greater claim to a lone Calder SL franchise than Cas or Fev. That they are currently a bit stronger should be irrelevant. RL for once needs a brave and joined-up approach to a difficult issue.

 

I fundamentally agree with you, but the supporters of the area voted for a fight to the death. That is what they are getting. One club will win and strangely the ones who were most vocal in the merger debate are the one's it seems that will be the biggest losers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 That's a ludicrous comparison but if you must go there then, yes, patterns of violence and abuse and mysoginism and drug use can be and often are learned behaviours. Trust me I,ve seen it many times in my former line of work.

 

And I have seen the best of people born of the worst of parents.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So dad's a murderer therefore son's a murderer.

Of course not

Most murders by far are one off events acted out under high emotional pressure of different kinds

The analogy doesn't work since watching sport, being a fan if you like is a continuous process

If we depend upon enjoyment of rugby league being passed down through the generations rather than opening up the possibilities for involvement from others not yet interested then wesredoomed. This is because not all children given the opportunity to enjoy the sport do so and numbers will diminish and the image of the rugby supporter wool inevitably become even more elderly.

So whilst I agree with your point I disagree with your analogy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



League Express - Mon 10th April 2017

Rugby League World - April 2017