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bedlam breakout

the images from goldthorpe

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Id expect to see a public show of celebration at a civilians death in some backward Middle Eastern fundamentalist dictatorship rather than South Yorksihre. Still, it was a night out I suppose.

 

Lots of people came out of this weeks proceedings pretty badly, all of them on the left of politics

 

 

see my comment above, they're humans, they love their kids and their friends and they hate those that tried to destroy their lives and communities. There's nothing wrong with emotion, its what makes us human, the hate as much as the love.

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You draw the line between emotion and barbarity somewhere different to me

see my comment above, they're humans, they love their kids and their friends and they hate those that tried to destroy their lives and communities. There's nothing wrong with emotion, its what makes us human, the hate as much as the love.

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and as reports from Goldthorpe started on tv news Totalrl.com locked the Thatcherism thread and opened one about sleeveless jackets...

 

Orwellian news management is alve and well, and probably all Thatchers fault

(source:HP)

 

Don't worry, miss one such thread, there'll be another along in a minute. Oh look, here it is.

 

Anyone got anything new to say on the subject? Somehow, I doubt it.

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T Dub what is the difference of convictions between either viewpoint.

No human being should publically rejoice at the death of another

 

Dont mistake me, I was no great advocate of Mrs Thatchers policy towards the mines but a civilized society should have some restraint and dignity

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Barbarity as in what, I didn't see any blood shed, over emotive use of words I think.

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Don't worry, miss one such thread, there'll be another along in a minute. Oh look, here it is.

 

Anyone got anything new to say on the subject? Somehow, I doubt it.

Dont blame you, looked like trouble

 

The papers and news are still full of it, so yes it seems there is

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Barbarity as in what, I didn't see any blood shed, over emotive use of words I think.

There was plenty of 'over emotive' stuff going on in Goldthorpe as well.  However, burning an effigy is barbaric.

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see my comment above, they're humans, they love their kids and their friends and they hate those that tried to destroy their lives and communities. There's nothing wrong with emotion, its what makes us human, the hate as much as the love.

Except the hate is ugly and looks ugly to the outside world and can't be justified 23 years after the person is no longer accountable and in fact has just died.

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Dont blame you, looked like trouble

 

The papers and news are still full of it, so yes it seems there is

 

Nothing actually new being said though, is there. Just the same people in the same trenches firing self righteous arrows at each other and resolutely refusing to appreciate anyone else's opinion.

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Nothing actually new being said though, is there. Just the same people in the same trenches firing self righteous arrows at each other and resolutely refusing to appreciate anyone else's opinion.

Surely that's the nature of it all though?  And Goldthorpe was a picture of one side of that which has been discussed subsequent to the funeral itself.

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Surely that's the nature of it all though?  And Goldthorpe was a picture of one side of that which has been discussed subsequent to the funeral itself.

 

None of the arguments are new. No one is going to change their opinion on anything. No one can see things from anything but their own viewpoint.

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How is it that a politician can have strong convictions and everythimg is hunky dory, yet let the people of Goldthorpe or anywhere else show the same conviction people don't want to know or is it that certain people are ashamed of where they come from nowadays, and don't like to be reminded of it seeing as we're all supposed to be aspiring.

I agree with your general point, but I'm not sure what you mean by your comment about aspiration and its relevance to that point.

 

all people aspire, always have and in all sorts of ways. Shame doesn't come into it, and personally I've never seen any indication that it does.

 

At least this little cathartic ritual didn't cost ten million quid of taxpayers' money.

 

I think some of the comments made on here about the people of Goldthorpe are disgusting. This is an area of  major social deprivation and those that are being sneered at here are struggling to make the best of that situation.

 

I hope this thread gets closed as soon as possible.

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None of the arguments are new. No one is going to change their opinion on anything. No one can see things from anything but their own viewpoint.

 

I wasn't aware that enlightenment was the sole purpose of a messageboard......maybe I'll start paying more attention.......

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Nothing actually new being said though, is there. Just the same people in the same trenches firing self righteous arrows at each other and resolutely refusing to appreciate anyone else's opinion.

I dont know, reviewing the early 80s after so many years has lead to a lot of new perspective and nostalgia.

 

It wasnt all bad, it certainly wasnt all good. Cabinet papers released show it wasnt all as we thought

 

We've heard a lot about miners and the Falklands last week, not so much about the Cold War/nuclear threat we lived under daily, Common Agricultural Policy/Europe, money supply, privatizations, Right To Buy, the IRA, Red Robbo, Red Wedge, Militant/SWP, Derek Hatton,public subsidy of British Rail/ British Steel/British Leyland etc, all stuff that was current then but less important now it's history

 

Not a word about how different it would have been under Michael Foot

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Except the hate is ugly and looks ugly to the outside world and can't be justified 23 years after the person is no longer accountable and in fact has just died.

 

 

Except the hate is ugly and looks ugly to the outside world and can't be justified 23 years after the person is no longer accountable and in fact has just died.

of course hate is ugly. Their experiences and their memories of them are ugly. The person has just died, and it happened 23 years ago, but these people still live in Goldthorpe and all that goes with it. 

 

The last time I looked the people of Goldthorpe weren't employed by the Yorkshire Tourist Board.

 

The idea that people shouldn't express feelings about events that had a major sometimes catastrophic event in the lives of them and their families because it's bad for the country's image is risible and a bit disturbing at the same time.

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L'angelo thank you for your comments, perhaps now is the time to let things calm down even though peoples opinions will remain.

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I hope this thread gets closed as soon as possible.

Tell us about your waterproof trousers

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There was plenty of 'over emotive' stuff going on in Goldthorpe as well.  However, burning an effigy is barbaric.

 

 

There was plenty of 'over emotive' stuff going on in Goldthorpe as well.  However, burning an effigy is barbaric.

you have an odd view of barbarism

nobody was hurt, traumatised or humiliated.

 

36 people were killed by car bombs in Iraq the other day is barbaric

the boston bombing is barbaric

 

burning a bit of cardboard wood and plastic to vent a bit of bitterness and anger isn't barbaric whether you agree with it or not.

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of course hate is ugly. Their experiences and their memories of them are ugly. The person has just died, and it happened 23 years ago, but these people still live in Goldthorpe and all that goes with it. 

 

The last time I looked the people of Goldthorpe weren't employed by the Yorkshire Tourist Board.

 

The idea that people shouldn't express feelings about events that had a major sometimes catastrophic event in the lives of them and their families because it's bad for the country's image is risible and a bit disturbing at the same time.

Express them by all means but within the bounds of common decency

It seems the Bolsheviks on here differ from the rest of that country as to where the boundary is

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Tell us about your waterproof trousers

 

 

I dont know, reviewing the early 80s after so many years has lead to a lot of new perspective and nostalgia.

 

It wasnt all bad, it certainly wasnt all good. Cabinet papers released show it wasnt all as we thought

 

We've heard a lot about miners and the Falklands last week, not so much about the Cold War/nuclear threat we lived under daily, Common Agricultural Policy/Europe, money supply, privatizations, Right To Buy, the IRA, Red Robbo, Red Wedge, Militant/SWP, Derek Hatton,public subsidy of British Rail/ British Steel/British Leyland etc, all stuff that was current then but less important now it's history

 

Not a word about how different it would have been under Michael Foot

I shudder to think what would have happened under Michael Foot. 

Under Denis Healey though...well we'll never know.

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So burning an effigy of a dead person is wrong? No more November the fifth then? Because it doesn't matter how long ago they died does it? Not if we're taking a "balanced" view?

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Express them by all means but within the bounds of common decency

It seems the Bolsheviks on here differ from the rest of that country as to where the boundary is

 

 

Express them by all means but within the bounds of common decency

It seems the Bolsheviks on here differ from the rest of that country as to where the boundary is

who's a Bolshevik? 

What is common decency is a matter of opinion.

As it happens the demonstartions in places like Goldthorpe weren't my cup of tea, but I can see where the people were coming from.

A ten million quid funeral at the tax payers' expense with the country supposedly skint challenges my sense of decency far more than a few dozen peoples' burning a poorly constructed effigy and getting ratted.

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it's not just wrong.....it's barbaric

Of course it's barbaric.

None of us is speaking in ancient Greek.

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