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bedlam breakout

the images from goldthorpe

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Oh dear.  I enjoyed watching the funeral (insofar as anyone can enjoy a funeral).  I like listening to choristers, I enjoy listening to a good sermon now and again, and St Paul's is an incredible cathedral.  What's deferential about that? 

 

 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  You actually don't know do you?

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:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  You actually don't know do you?

I don't know what's funny or deferential about enjoying listening to a choir, listening to a good sermon now and again, and thinking that St Paul's is an amazing building.  Perhaps you can enlighten me?

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Very respectful, one soldier who was detailed to carry her box asked not to because he came from Doncaster mining stock, my source his dad.

And?

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Indeed. 

 

 

Indeed. 

so what is your point then?

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For gods sake!! Talk about deference!! Did you stand up and take your hat off while it was on?

Probably too busy knocking one out over the old cow.

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I don't know what's funny or deferential about enjoying listening to a choir, listening to a good sermon now and again, and thinking that St Paul's is an amazing building.  Perhaps you can enlighten me?

 

 

I don't know what's funny or deferential about enjoying listening to a choir, listening to a good sermon now and again, and thinking that St Paul's is an amazing building.  Perhaps you can enlighten me?

I didn't realise that St Paul's cathedral was built for the purpose of staging Thatcher's funeral. Extraordinary prescience on the part of Sir Christopher Wren.

Choirs  a good sermon and a touching eulogy are part of any half decent funeral. I'm glad you enjoyed it and I hope it lives long in your memory. It's a pity you can't pay my share of the tab

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I think it was the Daily Mirror which first came up with that figure.  No audit has been done yet on the costs.  I will wait until it has and then listen out for the opposition to see if they agree that the sum announced is accurate.  In the meantime, I will remain sceptical about the various costs claimed by lefwingers.

 

 

I think it was the Daily Mirror which first came up with that figure.  No audit has been done yet on the costs.  I will wait until it has and then listen out for the opposition to see if they agree that the sum announced is accurate.  In the meantime, I will remain sceptical about the various costs claimed by lefwingers.

 

 

No.  It just means those who were involved lack class and dignity.

or have bitter memories that they want to exorcise.

I suggest you look empathy up on your well thumbed on line dictionary.

 

the daily mirror was only one media outlet to come up with eight million. Suggest you broaden your reading spectrum

 

it has via various media organs been broadened to ten millions

 

the army, the navy, the police(not the ghastly 1980's band who in themselves symbolise the era)), the secret services, the emergency services, the hire of the cathedral, the traffic arrangements, the choir, the organist, the hire of the first world war gun carriage, the horses, blah de blah don't come cheap. You wouldn't get much change out of a co-op funeral plan, or that thing where Michael parkinson gives you a free ballpoint.

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I think it was the Daily Mirror which first came up with that figure.  No audit has been done yet on the costs.  I will wait until it has and then listen out for the opposition to see if they agree that the sum announced is accurate.  In the meantime, I will remain sceptical about the various costs claimed by lefwingers.

Will they take in the police presence and the police helicopter flying about all day between the ex mining villages?

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And?

And not everyone on parade wanted to be there.

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And not everyone on parade wanted to be there.

 

 

It seemed like the Thatcher twins didn't initially intend to come over early. Some pressure was presumably applied. Who would be surprised if money changed hands?

 

The funeral was a political propaganda exercise, full stop.

 

I suspect that 90% of the people who vigorously defend it are likely to vote Conservative at the next election.

 

The celebrations in Goldthorpe are a social  statement and effectively conducted by people who will vote Labour or UKIP.

 

The real loser is the Labour Party. It could and should have just shunned the parliamentary eulogy last week. Or, it could have volunteered to hold it this Monday morning, before the new session of Parliament officially opened for the day. That would have been a suitable response to Cameron's opportunism.

 

As I see it, Ed Miliband is: -

  -a-  a professional politician

 - b - is driven by personal ambition

 - c - represents a former mining community 

His performance suggests that the first two factors completely outweigh the third.

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There was plenty of 'over emotive' stuff going on in Goldthorpe as well. However, burning an effigy is barbaric.

Oh we'll let's finally abandon the 5th November 'celebrations'. Or does burning Catholic effigies not count

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I was embarrassed to be northern when I saw those scenes on TV. 

 

However, I was proud to live in a country that allows people to make themselves look stupid to the world.

 

No more embarrassing than some of the braying, chinless wonders shown on TV that day shedding their crocodile tears. Or Torygraph "journalist" and Thatcher biographer Charles Moore stating on Radio Five "Thatcher is reviled in parts of the country that are less important".

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You're right.  Scargill led the miners out on an illegal strike.

 

The strike was only illegal following the Trade Union Act 1984. Prior to that it would have been legal. That's the problem with taking on those who make the rules; you can never win, if you are winning they just change the rules. 

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There was plenty of 'over emotive' stuff going on in Goldthorpe as well.  However, burning an effigy is barbaric.

 

But  we burn an effigy of somone every November 5th.

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I don't think Thatcher's funeral was barbaric.  It was very dignified and respectful.  The choir was amazing, the readings were appropriate, the sermon was incredible and St Paul's was outstanding.

 

The tune for "Love Divine" was Blaenwern - written in the South Wales coalfields.  I like to bet Rowlands is revolving swiftly in his grave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaenwern

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I didn't realise that St Paul's cathedral was built for the purpose of staging Thatcher's funeral. Extraordinary prescience on the part of Sir Christopher Wren.

Choirs  a good sermon and a touching eulogy are part of any half decent funeral. I'm glad you enjoyed it and I hope it lives long in your memory. It's a pity you can't pay my share of the tab

Your first sentence shows some desperation.  As for the choirs - there was no eulogy.  But since you didn't watch the funeral, that you didn't know that comes as no surprise.

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or have bitter memories that they want to exorcise.

I suggest you look empathy up on your well thumbed on line dictionary.

 

the daily mirror was only one media outlet to come up with eight million. Suggest you broaden your reading spectrum

 

it has via various media organs been broadened to ten millions

 

the army, the navy, the police(not the ghastly 1980's band who in themselves symbolise the era)), the secret services, the emergency services, the hire of the cathedral, the traffic arrangements, the choir, the organist, the hire of the first world war gun carriage, the horses, blah de blah don't come cheap. You wouldn't get much change out of a co-op funeral plan, or that thing where Michael parkinson gives you a free ballpoint.

I can't empathise with individuals who burn effigies.  It isn't something I ever do or have ever done.  And the only time I ever read tabloids - generally brainless papers (although written by very clever people) - is when I had to study them at university. 

 

The army, navy, police, secret services, emergency services, would all have been paid anyway since they are permanent staff.  They don't get paid in addition for attending a funeral.  It's simply part of their job.  Horses would require care whether they were at the funeral or trotting around their paddock.  The costs of the actual funeral will have related to St Paul's, transport arrangements for guests and the two receptions afterwards.  I very much doubt St Paul's, transport arrangements for guests and two receptions cost £10 million!

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But  we burn an effigy of somone every November 5th.

You may; I don't.

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Your first sentence shows some desperation.  As for the choirs - there was no eulogy.  But since you didn't watch the funeral, that you didn't know that comes as no surprise.

you didn't watch the demo in Goldthorpe

 

I didn't say there was a eulogy. I said what I considered constitured agood fumeral-a eulogy being one of the elements.

 

as for my comments about St Paul's it's been there since the 17th century and looks magnificent whether it was an extremely expensiv part of Thatcher's funeral or not...I was mocking you.

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I can't empathise with individuals who burn effigies.  It isn't something I ever do or have ever done.  And the only time I ever read tabloids - generally brainless papers (although written by very clever people) - is when I had to study them at university. 

 

The army, navy, police, secret services, emergency services, would all have been paid anyway since they are permanent staff.  They don't get paid in addition for attending a funeral.  It's simply part of their job.  Horses would require care whether they were at the funeral or trotting around their paddock.  The costs of the actual funeral will have related to St Paul's, transport arrangements for guests and the two receptions afterwards.  I very much doubt St Paul's, transport arrangements for guests and two receptions cost £10 million!

 

 

I can't empathise with individuals who burn effigies.  It isn't something I ever do or have ever done.  And the only time I ever read tabloids - generally brainless papers (although written by very clever people) - is when I had to study them at university. 

 

The army, navy, police, secret services, emergency services, would all have been paid anyway since they are permanent staff.  They don't get paid in addition for attending a funeral.  It's simply part of their job.  Horses would require care whether they were at the funeral or trotting around their paddock.  The costs of the actual funeral will have related to St Paul's, transport arrangements for guests and the two receptions afterwards.  I very much doubt St Paul's, transport arrangements for guests and two receptions cost £10 million!

I don't burn effigies either and I loathe bonfire night. I doubt whether the people in Goldthorpe who's actions you didn't see(seemingly this is important to you). do on a frequent basis either. But I can see where they were coming from, and I hope it helped them in some way.

 

The defence services, the secret services, the police etc etc will have been taken from other duties, they don't just exist to take part in ruritanian funerals.

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You may; I don't.

will you be starting a thread complaining about it in early november?

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The army, navy, police, secret services, emergency services, would all have been paid anyway since they are permanent staff.  They don't get paid in addition for attending a funeral.  It's simply part of their job.  

 

They would have been taken away from other duties and its standard practice to include all costs, including salary costs, when working out how expensive something was.

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he army, navy, police, secret services, emergency services, would all have been paid anyway since they are permanent staff.  They don't get paid in addition for attending a funeral.  It's simply part of their job.  Horses would require care whether they were at the funeral or trotting around their paddock.  The costs of the actual funeral will have related to St Paul's, transport arrangements for guests and the two receptions afterwards.  I very much doubt St Paul's, transport arrangements for guests and two receptions cost £10 million!

 

This was an argument given on the radio by a Tory MP (name escapes me) and is a fallacy. Those members of the police force and the military would be servicing the British public doing other duties, instead of attending Thatcher's funeral. Logical extension of that argument would mean that on a given day these people are redundant. 

 

Going back to the original topic I'm pleased those who wished to celebrate her death in Goldthorpe were able to do so. I don't share the extent of their hatred but empathise with them. I thought the protests at the funeral procession were crass and unnecessary. I don't see much difference between what the actions of those people and the actions of the much hated Westboro Baptist Church. 

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the police(not the ghastly 1980's band who in themselves symbolise the era)),

Ooof....although I'd tend to agree with most of your points in this thread I really can't agree with this one!

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