Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

roughyedspud

Why a GB tour in 2015 is deeply flawed

94 posts in this topic

wales,scotland & ireland have never played as much meaningful tests as they have in the last 4years.....

hth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That could be quite good - England playing the test matches, the Celtic team playing the 'midweek' games.

or the celtic nations could have their own "touring team" called the celtic tigers...

the celtic tigers could play england instead of the exiles ( that could provide a legitimate pathway for bring back GB)

the celtic tigers could play in the 4nations...

and the celtic tigers could tour down under...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wales,scotland & ireland have never played as much meaningful tests as they have in the last 4years.....

hth

So? Great that they've played so many games - keep it going.

 

Out of interest, how does this compare with when GB were playing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I would welcome a tour from Australia or NZ where they play 5 or 6 SL clubs like the touring GB union team do.

 

It would give SL clubs the chance to raise some revenue and I am sure club fans would warm to it. England or GB coach the chance to see players perform against touring international team. Six weeks of international RL.

 

Do it once every four years in the middle of the World Cup cycle and swap between Aus and NZ each time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great Britain was the one major brand we had in our sport and we ditched it, absolute hogwash

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great Britain was the one major brand we had in our sport and we ditched it, absolute hogwash

How major was it?

 

People talk as though everything was good when we had GB playing. There were just as many grim times with GB there as there are with England around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Qualifying in 2014 for the 2016 tournament is hardly an issue to be fair. It's not unheard of.

Just to be clear, it was even heard of for this year's world cup as the qualifiers for that were held in 2011.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great Britain was the one major brand we had in our sport and we ditched it, absolute hogwash

 

We're not talking 'brands' here, but sporting nations. The major teams sports have England as the national team, why should the major and important sport of rugby league be any different? Surely English players want to represent England.

 

If it helps with the 'brand' then feel free to use old GB kit for England and even call the team the Lions. To be honest I don't think the majority of the sporting public would notice any difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So? Great that they've played so many games - keep it going.

Out of interest, how does this compare with when GB were playing?

it does'nt compare at all....nobody gave a ###### if they played or not.... and they hardly ever played.....put it this way,wales,scotland & ireland have played more games...and games that mean something...in the last 4 years than they in the 10-15 years before that...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it does'nt compare at all....nobody gave a ###### if they played or not.... and they hardly ever played.....put it this way,wales,scotland & ireland have played more games...and games that mean something...in the last 4 years than they in the 10-15 years before that...

 

That's twice today I've agreed with you, on this and scrapping the World Cup. Keep it up mate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People have to realise that a Lions Tour or bringing back the Lions will weaken the home nations and you can only have a strong Lions concept if the home nations are strong. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it does'nt compare at all....nobody gave a ###### if they played or not.... and they hardly ever played.....put it this way,wales,scotland & ireland have played more games...and games that mean something...in the last 4 years than they in the 10-15 years before that...

I'm not sure I agree about the fact that they played more games in the last 4 years than they did in the 10-15 before that - if you could provide some stats then I'll happily alter my opinion.

I do agree that "nobody gave a ###### if they played or not". But I would also say that is probably the same now, relatively speaking.

Personally I think very little has changed for Wales, Scotland and Ireland since GB disbanded, except that some of their better players have since pledged allegiance to England. Again I'll happily be proved wrong if anyone has the stats to support their opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People have to realise that a Lions Tour or bringing back the Lions will weaken the home nations and you can only have a strong Lions concept if the home nations are strong.

I completely disagree with you there.

Not having GB forces players to choose England if they're serious about their international career, thus weakening the other home nations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GB is a totally irrelevant, archaic concept and the people advocating its return are nostalgia-fueled idiots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GB is a totally irrelevant, archaic concept and the people advocating its return are nostalgia-fueled idiots.

Thanks for that comprehensive and balanced analysis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure I agree about the fact that they played more games in the last 4 years than they did in the 10-15 before that - if you could provide some stats then I'll happily alter my opinion.

I do agree that "nobody gave a ###### if they played or not". But I would also say that is probably the same now, relatively speaking.

Personally I think very little has changed for Wales, Scotland and Ireland since GB disbanded, except that some of their better players have since pledged allegiance to England. Again I'll happily be proved wrong if anyone has the stats to support their opinion.

You are right, little has changed:

 

Ireland - play three games per year now instead of 2 prior to 2008 (played 3 in 2004 when GB were playing)

Scotland - same as above

Wales - play 3 or 4 games per year now, up from 2-3 normally.

 

There is little difference tbh - most of the above play England Knights now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GB is a totally irrelevant, archaic concept and the people advocating its return are nostalgia-fueled idiots.

 

I could see that it was a necessity at one time, when rugby league was not played at any level in Wales, Scotland and Ireland, and even the occasional appearance of Wales was as a result of union converts and players with Welsh heritage.

 

But rugby league has made the decision that it is going to permanently organise and develop, both in the 'home' nations and in wider Europe, and combining nations makes no sense in that scenario. Especially when you're combining, in rugby league terms, one advanced nation with three developing ones.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are right, little has changed:

 

Ireland - play three games per year now instead of 2 prior to 2008 (played 3 in 2004 when GB were playing)

Scotland - same as above

Wales - play 3 or 4 games per year now, up from 2-3 normally.

 

There is little difference tbh - most of the above play England Knights now.

Thanks for that. I knew they had played some games prior to GB disbanding but wasn't sure of exact numbers. Personally I'd love to see them all playing England each Summer in a Euro championship type thing. It'll likely be years before they become competitive, but it would at least guarantee them some high profile fixtures each year.

If GB were still going then players could have the luxury of playing for their home nation in the Summer, and then still have the opportunity of getting selected to play against the big guns in the Autumn internationals.

I understand why people think it's a backward step, but in reality it was only a very short time ago that we were competing as GB anyway. I think when the decision to disband the GB team was made, some of the potential implications (such as players all opting for England) hadn't been fully considered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that. I knew they had played some games prior to GB disbanding but wasn't sure of exact numbers. Personally I'd love to see them all playing England each Summer in a Euro championship type thing. It'll likely be years before they become competitive, but it would at least guarantee them some high profile fixtures each year.

If GB were still going then players could have the luxury of playing for their home nation in the Summer, and then still have the opportunity of getting selected to play against the big guns in the Autumn internationals.

I understand why people think it's a backward step, but in reality it was only a very short time ago that we were competing as GB anyway. I think when the decision to disband the GB team was made, some of the potential implications (such as players all opting for England) hadn't been fully considered.

They weren't proper games though before 2008. You can't have a proper home nations test if GB are playing.

Is it just me, or does it seem like the ones that want GB to return all seem to be English? The Welsh, Irish and Scottish seem pretty happy to have their own teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They weren't proper games though before 2008. You can't have a proper home nations test if GB are playing.

But everybody keeps telling me that GB are just England anyway, so surely Wales, Scotland and Ireland would still have been at full strength before 2008?

And how were they not 'proper' games? Do Ireland and Scotland play any 'proper' games now? When was the last time they played the full England team, for example?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But everybody keeps telling me that GB are just England anyway, so surely Wales, Scotland and Ireland would still have been at full strength before 2008?

And how were they not 'proper' games? Do Ireland and Scotland play any 'proper' games now? When was the last time they played the full England team, for example?

They weren't proper games because their best players wouldn't be availae to them if they were good enough to play for GB (which to be fair has only been Cunningham, Harris and Carney in the last 10 years!). They are now the focus of RL in their regions, not some developmental sideshow.

It's funny how you single out Ireland and Scotland for questioning of "proper games", but leave out Wales who have played Australia, New Zealand and England recently in proper tests. All have played France in front of bigger crowds than before the split.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They weren't proper games because their best players wouldn't be availae to them if they were good enough to play for GB (which to be fair has only been Cunningham, Harris and Carney in the last 10 years!). They are now the focus of RL in their regions, not some developmental sideshow.

It's funny how you single out Ireland and Scotland for questioning of "proper games", but leave out Wales who have played Australia, New Zealand and England recently in proper tests. All have played France in front of bigger crowds than before the split.

there were proper games when GB played Wellsy.

Ireland even played in Russia.

Even if there was a chance of losing players to GB - the reality is they didnt (especially Scotland and Ireland).

Wales made one 4n appearance by shocking favourites France in the qualifiers.

If we are serious about Home Nations - they should be facing PNG, Samoa, Fiji etc. and even getting the opportunity for their own tours.

I find it ridiculous that these teams are going into the WC without proper warmups this summer. We need to make it attractive for players to want to play for these teams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They weren't proper games because their best players wouldn't be availae to them if they were good enough to play for GB (which to be fair has only been Cunningham, Harris and Carney in the last 10 years!). They are now the focus of RL in their regions, not some developmental sideshow.

It's funny how you single out Ireland and Scotland for questioning of "proper games", but leave out Wales who have played Australia, New Zealand and England recently in proper tests. All have played France in front of bigger crowds than before the split.

Equally I could throw back that Ireland played England in a WC semi final (and pushed them close) before GB had disbanded, and therefore played in more 'proper games' than they currently do... I don't think that picking and choosing selected stats really makes either argument conclusive.

 

What I'm getting at is that very little has changed since GB disbanded, despite folk saying that now is a far better scenario for these smaller teams. What has definitely changed is that the likes of Danny Brough and Michael McIlorum have now opted to play for England instead of Scotland and Ireland, respectively.

 

I know that people argue that we need 'home grown' players representing these other home nations - and I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment - but the reality is that will be years away from making these teams competitive on the international stage.

 

In contrast, if you look at NSW and Queensland, then they will look to recruit whatever players make them more competitive, hence the controversies over NZ-born players opting to play Origin.

 

My proposal would see the celtic nations playing more high profile games than they currently do, whilst also allowing their players to play for GB against Aus or NZ in the autumn internationals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GB is a totally irrelevant, archaic concept and the people advocating its return are nostalgia-fueled idiots.

You obviously missed the Olympics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there were proper games when GB played Wellsy.

Ireland even played in Russia.

Even if there was a chance of losing players to GB - the reality is they didnt (especially Scotland and Ireland).

Wales made one 4n appearance by shocking favourites France in the qualifiers.

If we are serious about Home Nations - they should be facing PNG, Samoa, Fiji etc. and even getting the opportunity for their own tours.

I find it ridiculous that these teams are going into the WC without proper warmups this summer. We need to make it attractive for players to want to play for these teams.

What's wrong with effectively pooling the international sides, with the best out of the European sides competing for a place in the 4n when it's over here and the best of the other international sides competing for a place when it's in Aus/New Zealand.

 

Like you've said, why can't Scotland, Ireland, Wales etc tour or have PNG, Samoa etc come over here and tour as part of there own comp and or a curtain raiser to the four nations?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



League Express - Mon 24th July 2017

Rugby League World - August 2017