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The Daddy_merged

New championship clubs a breath of fresh air

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CC1 has a long long way to go before it can be adjudged a success and before it can provide a model for small clubs to operate sustainably in a national semi pro comp which would be great for the game.

 

This. Judging the new clubs on the basis of a handful of games is a dangerous thing to do.

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Judging them negatively before they'd played a game was de rigeur a couple of months ago, people are just redressing the balance

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As a North Wales Crusaders supporter I took a keen interest in the clus involved in Championship 1 and I said at the begining of the season that Hemel Stags have a good foundation and are well managed while Oxford have recruited well and look like a professional outfit. My prediction were that Hemel and Oxford would be the teams to beat. Looks like I could be right (for a change!)

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Hemel I expected to do well with their firm foundations. I'm really chuffed for them as a club as they've been around for a while and are exactly what developing from grassroots is all about.

Oxford have been a surprise. Weren't sure what to expect from them to be honest.

Great to see Crusaders going strong. Really hope they can get promoted and go well in the Championship for a few years. I think there's great potential up in Wrexham, and to think they wouldn't be there if it wasn't for Celtic's mess up!

What ever happened to the rumblings from Bridgend about a fan-run club? I know it was at the same time as the Scorpions were muted, but was that the end of it after that? There was a lot going on down there at one point and whilst I don't think SL was really ready for them, Championship rugby could still have been viable.

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are you talking about the grounds? Whitebank is a fall in standards definitely, but spotland? ? It's one of the best in either championship. Wish we had it!

On field performance. Oldham and Rochdale should be at the top of the table.

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What ever happened to the rumblings from Bridgend about a fan-run club? I know it was at the same time as the Scorpions were muted, but was that the end of it after that? There was a lot going on down there at one point and whilst I don't think SL was really ready for them, Championship rugby could still have been viable.

Neath is only 20 miles from Bridgend. Probably best or the Scorpions to shore up the wider support from the area, rather then divide the regions support.

I have heard a club from the Valleys were also looking at eventually moving to CC1

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Never mind Dr Koukash, I was hoping the Sheikh at Man City might have a brother that could take an interest in Hornets.

 

We'll take em both and they can headhunt a couple more for Keighley and Swinton. Apart from Hornets all the others either need a new or a vastly updated ground so there's plenty to aim for.

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Neath is only 20 miles from Bridgend. Probably best or the Scorpions to shore up the wider support from the area, rather then divide the regions support.

I have heard a club from the Valleys were also looking at eventually moving to CC1

That was Valley Cougars but looks unlikely at the minute. There is however lots of stuff going on down here, that when it is all in place will make a significant impact.

For now Scorpions are the way forward as goldcoaster says.

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We'll take em both and they can headhunt a couple more for Keighley and Swinton. Apart from Hornets all the others either need a new or a vastly updated ground so there's plenty to aim for.

 

Wrexham's ground is okay, as is Gateshead International Stadium.

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Judging them negatively before they'd played a game was de rigeur a couple of months ago, people are just redressing the balance

I'm not redressing the balance because nothing has been proved by the performance of the division so far. You said in your earlier post "Oldham need to build support by winning matches and then use that momentum to develop the ground".

There's no record of crowds flocking to third tier clubs who win matches, at least not such that they will have enough profit from the gates left over to do building works on the ground. In 2010 my club Hunslet won CC1 and their attendances fell 20%.

CC1 is a brave attempt to increase the semi pro "footprint" of the game across Britain, probably because they could not do this at fully pro level. The assumption that just because nobody has collapsed after a few weeks means clubs are going from strength to strength and the naysayers are wrong is unfair.

For new clubs yes this is a chance to shine on a national stage, for the likes of Oldham and Rochdale it's somewhere to exist. For Hunslet it's been costed out as a place they can't afford. The race to DR is all about staying out of CC1.

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On field performance. Oldham and Rochdale should be at the top of the table.

sorry but crusaders have an excellent squad for that level and have zero dual reg players as well.

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Hunslet are an interesting case, low support and a hinterland that does not seem to identify with Hunslet as a suburb in the way past generations may have done. For hunslet to attract new support they may need to re-brand to widen their appeal (the same may be true of Swinton). Town teams such as Oldham have many more people that identify with the concept of the town.

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I think it is fair for people to comment that those people who suggested it would be a disaster from day 1 were wrong. It certainly looks, from competitiveness and crowds, to have made a decent start. Given the nature of start ups, I would be surprised if all the newbies made it, but that's no reason not to stick with the concept. The clubs and the RFL will be learning all the time about what works and what doesn't.

So far, so good.

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Not sure that the fear was an uneven competition, more that clubs travelling such distances could sustain RL at this semi pro level.

 

 

This too would be my fear, and I think it's far to early to judge the new arrivals as successes.  I wouldn't imagine that there's a lot of money being paid to players in this division, and the when an 80 minute game can regularly take eight to ten hours out of a day with travel, prep and playing it's a big commitment for young men to make.  Added to that the training and lifestyle sacrifices it's easy to imagine a scenario where players could feel that they're better off playing for union sides locally for easy money.

 

The signs so far are good.  Long may it continue.

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I think it is fair for people to comment that those people who suggested it would be a disaster from day 1 were wrong. It certainly looks, from competitiveness and crowds, to have made a decent start.

I'd disagree and ask you to consider that the proof that a national semi pro competition of independant clubs works will lie in the accounts of the clubs.

This is not amateur Rugby.

If there IS a formulae that works financially then the dual registered clubs hanging on to the coat tails of Superleague masters ought to consider it.

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That was Valley Cougars but looks unlikely at the minute. There is however lots of stuff going on down here, that when it is all in place will make a significant impact.

For now Scorpions are the way forward as goldcoaster says.

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Hunslet are an interesting case, low support and a hinterland that does not seem to identify with Hunslet as a suburb in the way past generations may have done. For hunslet to attract new support they may need to re-brand to widen their appeal (the same may be true of Swinton). Town teams such as Oldham have many more people that identify with the concept of the town.

Maybe but the elephant in the room is the Superleague clubs.

Far from championship clubs being able to "widen" their appeal, IMHO the appeal is superleague and that widens their audience wether it's Wigan/leigh, Leeds/Hunslet or Salford/swinton.

CC1 is about widening the game around the country getting new fans, players and sponsors on board and providing an aleternative Rugby to that which monopolised those areas for 100 years.

On that basis I feel that it's more important to the game than the Championship where some clubs cling on to the past by acting as "A" teams, to try to maintain second tier status when if fact this dependance diminishes their status to below CC1.

Are Hunslet a bigger club than Oxford?

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Oldham are dead, they just haven't noticed yet. Why pay £12(?) to watch boring dross that is far less entertaining than the games you can watch at amateur level for less money when the facilities are no better and the management of the club is an absolute joke ? If they have a future it will be as a Salford feeder club. The ground is in a worse state now than it was when they moved in with no realistic signs of any improvement (there's been no planning applications made) and the team are just not worth watching.

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While the forum is on the subject of the Challenge Cup, I would just like to say that in my view, an A1 point was made about that competition by a League Express reader, in a letter published on the Mailbag page, and I hope Mr Haskey will not mind if I quote him here .............

" .............................  There is always a chance of an upset, although unlike football it is unlikely, due to the try line being a lot wider than the goals in football. It is the romance of the cup not necessary the result that counts."

Ian Haskey; Mailbag; League Express; 29th April 2013
Page 37; Column 2; 3rd Reader's Letter down.


In and age of scant reverence for romance (as opposed to sex) it is encouraging to find that someone, somewhere still believes that sport (contrary to prevailing opinion) is not always, all about winning.

There is more to it than that.


What happened to the glory of just going out to win?
To each new David standing four-square up to face his personal Goliath?

What does it matter that in the real world not every David can floor Goliath - end of story.
Sometimes the glory is in just living for the day, when the day is big enough.

:-)

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Oldham are dead, they just haven't noticed yet. Why pay £12(?) to watch boring dross that is far less entertaining than the games you can watch at amateur level for less money when the facilities are no better and the management of the club is an absolute joke ? If they have a future it will be as a Salford feeder club. The ground is in a worse state now than it was when they moved in with no realistic signs of any improvement (there's been no planning applications made) and the team are just not worth watching.

600 people disagree with you so oldham are not dead. The fans they have seem to prefer (at least they say this on here) their club to be independant and to play Oldham lads where possible.

Others may however prefer the "Feeder" option but is it really tenable for independant clubs to play in the same league as clubs who have access to professional players from Superleague?

It is only tolerated by the Fev's halifax's and Sheffield's because they are winning wll the time. once the reverse happens there'll be a big row.

How fair would it be if oxford came north next year to face highly paid (by Koukash) pros from Salford??

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Wrexham's ground is okay, as is Gateshead International Stadium.

 

No arguments there but I was discussing particulalrly, Swinton, Keighley, Oldham and Hornets and Hornets are the only one with a decent ground out of that quartet.

Keighley, Swinton and Oldham all have eisting plans to upgrade their ground or build a new one. Big time money would significantly help these ambitions and could well kick start renaisances in the fortunes of those teams.

As I said, does dr Koukash have a wealthy bored brother that could be approached?

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I'm not redressing the balance because nothing has been proved by the performance of the division so far. You said in your earlier post "Oldham need to build support by winning matches and then use that momentum to develop the ground".

There's no record of crowds flocking to third tier clubs who win matches, at least not such that they will have enough profit from the gates left over to do building works on the ground. In 2010 my club Hunslet won CC1 and their attendances fell 20%.

CC1 is a brave attempt to increase the semi pro "footprint" of the game across Britain, probably because they could not do this at fully pro level. The assumption that just because nobody has collapsed after a few weeks means clubs are going from strength to strength and the naysayers are wrong is unfair.

For new clubs yes this is a chance to shine on a national stage, for the likes of Oldham and Rochdale it's somewhere to exist. For Hunslet it's been costed out as a place they can't afford. The race to DR is all about staying out of CC1.

 

Where does that leave South Wales and Wigan and Skolars and Broncos, Rochdale and Saints then ?

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I think it is fair for people to comment that those people who suggested it would be a disaster from day 1 were wrong. It certainly looks, from competitiveness and crowds, to have made a decent start. Given the nature of start ups, I would be surprised if all the newbies made it, but that's no reason not to stick with the concept. The clubs and the RFL will be learning all the time about what works and what doesn't.

So far, so good.

 

And Coventry to join the party next season.

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Where does that leave South Wales and Wigan and Skolars and Broncos, Rochdale and Saints then ?

All in a mess.

Do you like how "feeder" clubs who can't stand on their own two feet are being mixed with new clubs who may want to? Do you want all clubs below SL to be beholden to SL and exist for SL?

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All in a mess.

Do you like how "feeder" clubs who can't stand on their own two feet are being mixed with new clubs who may want to? Do you want all clubs below SL to be beholden to SL and exist for SL?

 

No I don't. This whole DR thing is a big mistake and distatrous for future player development.

 

It is gratifying though that Fev, Fax. the Eagles are dominating CC and the Crusaders are top dogs in CC1, independent clubs all.

 

With the exception of the eagles, these clubs are also the best supported clubs in the division so where is the benefit for the DR CC clubs. All the benefits are to the SL club.

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