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audois

Toulouse Olympique

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If someone has the time and energy to draw up a list of South Eastern SL players and then spends the time to have a ponder whether each one would have made it if it hadnt been for the Broncos, who discovered them,where they played their junior RL, who coached them etc etc then methinks mlud that my case will rest

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If someone has the time and energy to draw up a list of South Eastern SL players and then spends the time to have a ponder whether each one would have made it if it hadnt been for the Broncos, who discovered them,where they played their junior RL, who coached them etc etc then methinks mlud that my case will rest

I think you would need to show that growth in the South East was quicker than it was in the Midlands or the North East.

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As usual you picked the bit of a post to support your argument and ignored the rest. There would be three semi pro clubs in the London area with another 30 miles away at Oxford who would be an alternative option for players coming out of London amateur RL as well as the SL clubs from the North.

What are you talking about??

London Broncos run a fully staffed professional academy to develop players into full time professionals.

Oxford, Hemel and Skolars do not run such academies.

It's like saying a leeds lad doesn't have to go to Leeds to become a profesional player because he can join Hunslet.

I'm always after what is the truth about these issues. It's not me with a hatred of the London Broncos. I don't have "arguments" to suit what I would like to see happen, all I'm after is what's best for the game, and we will only get there if we can agree on how things really are.

You also say "some would sign for SL clubs" but you fail to aknowledge that some may simply drop Rugby league if they have to travel 200 miles as a 16 year old to another part of the country to pursue a dream of being an RL professional.

Larry Leit suggests kids don't play RL in London because they want to be a London Broncos player. He reckons kid not many kids watch the Broncos. But all top quality kids when they start getting to 14 & 15 do have it cross their minds (if they don't it will be suggested to them) that perhaps they could turn professional.

A player could be ripping it up fot Greenwich Admirals at 15 and his coach suggest he tries Brooncos academy.

If there is no academy for 200 miles then of course it's logical and rational than that will put a number of them off.

But apparently according to you they all will be happy to take the path of trying to be a professional player by joining a semi pro club that doesn't have the facilities for such development!! How does that work??

Or they will go live up north when they're just a kid to pursue their career in a profession where many youngsters don't make it, leaving family and friends behind.

Ridiculous

Let's just pack in any exchanges if you think I don't debate issues honestly and have some sort of an agenda.

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Fev bring far less than any exisitng SL club.

They bring a dilution of professional clubs on an already relatively small player pool.

They bring a smaller potential of new spectators and viewers due to its size and nearby competitors.

They bring a PT development team made up of existing players to supplement their contracts and not neccesarily development professionals.

yet if they were in super league next weekend they would pull a bigger attendance than Salford and London. What is a PT development team if you mean academy they are investing heavily into there's which super league teams are trying to avoid. Yet none of these points equates to commercial suicide which you say would happen if fev are in super league so please come back with remotely valid points of what all the current teams add that fev can't commercially, ie increased sponsorship etc

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No, London have an influence on coaching at junior clubs throughout the London Junior League, so those clubs and the players from them will have an affinity and should they be good enough play in scholarships and academies at Broncos. Fev do not have that luxury.

The point was the number of players in SL now that have come through the academy and scholarship structures of Broncos compared to those of Fev.

why are the broncos so poor then if they have an infinite amount of talent.

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Yet if they were in super league next weekend they would pull a bigger attendance than Salford and London.

Both London and salford have averaged crowds in Superleague bigger that Featherstone ever averaged in the days of division one.

Would Featherstone pull crowds bigger than Salford or London if like those two clubs they were coming in the bottom two or three of SL every year year on year?

Fev fans have agreed a 5,000 crowd would be a ralistic start for superlegue. That's what Widnes got. Salford also got over a 5,000 average last year despite struggling.

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why are the broncos so poor then if they have an infinite amount of talent.

 

it's only just starting to come through, trust me it's there. I'd also like to say I have no problem whatsoever in Featherstone being promoted (or Broncos going down). If they hack it, fantastic. If they dont, that's life.

And as the title of the thread is about another team entirely - I'd love to see Toulouse back playing over here, but this time as fully pro.

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Nope it's not going to work like that.

Toulouse will be considered against the French TV deal and civic and aerospace money they can bring to the comp and their importance to French International RL.

Featherstone will not be considered against the Pontefract network TV deal and the Featherstone town hall and Linpac money they can bring to the comp and their importance to English International RL.

Instead they will wave mr. Nahaboos money at the licensing commitee and provide newspaper clippings of reports showing Hudgell, O'Connor and Fulton don't want to know any more

Just a thought, has anyone consulted our existing broadcast partner?

Can't see them selling too many subscriptions in Toulouse, but they might lose a few in Hull/Cas/Salford/Wakefield

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Just a thought, has anyone consulted our existing broadcast partner?

Can't see them selling too many subscriptions in Toulouse, but they might lose a few in Hull/Cas/Salford/Wakefield

Sky sell packages: people who subscribe to the sports package get the whole lot. I'm not interested in any other sport, but buy the package. sky do not make their money from this. As with all commercial outlets...newspapers, magazines, tv, radio, sky make their money from advertising. A competition with a wider European element is almost bound to have positive implications for sky's advertising. Toulouse are a massively better bet than featherstone rivers when it comes to the future if the competition

Has it occurred to you that people might watch sky sports output even though they might not have any connection with that sport: but purely for the entertainment on offer: Spanish soccer, Southern Hemisphere rugby union, show jumping, boxing and so on

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I find the tic tac death by a thousand passes of Barcelona extremly boring.

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it's only just starting to come through, trust me it's there. I'd also like to say I have no problem whatsoever in Featherstone being promoted (or Broncos going down). If they hack it, fantastic. If they dont, that's life.

And as the title of the thread is about another team entirely - I'd love to see Toulouse back playing over here, but this time as fully pro.

i would love all 3 in I just think people's reasoning on why fev shouldn't be in unjust when existing clubs don't offer any more

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i would love all 3 in I just think people's reasoning on why fev shouldn't be in unjust when existing clubs don't offer any more

Unjust? Get a sense of perspective chief

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Sky sell packages: people who subscribe to the sports package get the whole lot. I'm not interested in any other sport, but buy the package. sky do not make their money from this. As with all commercial outlets...newspapers, magazines, tv, radio, sky make their money from advertising. A competition with a wider European element is almost bound to have positive implications for sky's advertising. Toulouse are a massively better bet than featherstone rivers when it comes to the future if the competition

Has it occurred to you that people might watch sky sports output even though they might not have any connection with that sport: but purely for the entertainment on offer: Spanish soccer, Southern Hemisphere rugby union, show jumping, boxing and so on

Actually, if you analyse BskyB's accounts (i'm a shareholder), you'll see that subscription and platform carriage charges (eg what they charge the likes of Dave for using their platform) far exceed advertising revenue.

I also take Sky Sports, but only watch RL, as do many others. How many would continue if their team no longer featured?

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Actually, if you analyse BskyB's accounts (i'm a shareholder), you'll see that subscription and platform carriage charges (eg what they charge the likes of Dave for using their platform) far exceed advertising revenue.

I also take Sky Sports, but only watch RL, as do many others. How many would continue if their team no longer featured?

I would guess an infinitesimal amount compared to the overall number

a little more background research is required your comment about advertising is intriguing

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Unjust? Get a sense of perspective chief

perspective of what exactly that if a hand full of rich men propping up super league teams professional rugby league would not exist in this country. What makes a rich backer propping up featherstone rovers different from probably more than half the teams in super league, don't give me garbage about other factors weighing against fev like most of this thread because it all lies down to someone pumping money into the club just like the rest. So if someone will then they are no less deserving then teams at the top of super league.

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What are you talking about??

London Broncos run a fully staffed professional academy to develop players into full time professionals.

Oxford, Hemel and Skolars do not run such academies.

It's like saying a leeds lad doesn't have to go to Leeds to become a profesional player because he can join Hunslet.

I'm always after what is the truth about these issues. It's not me with a hatred of the London Broncos. I don't have "arguments" to suit what I would like to see happen, all I'm after is what's best for the game, and we will only get there if we can agree on how things really are.

You argue one thing in one thread and the exact opposite in another. You even sometimes do this on the same page.

But that aside Jason Robinson did go from being a Hunslet player to a Wigan player without ever playing for Rhinos. So yes, Hunslet could play the role of a stepping stone to SL if Rhinos did not exist, exactly the thing you argue is not possible.

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why are the broncos so poor then if they have an infinite amount of talent.

They've only recently started the professional academy and it takes kids 10 years to go from 8 to 18 and even then the big clubs will only unearth one or two quality professionals per year. Look at the years the players at Wigan and Leeds came through and it's a very slow process.

Who knows if the Broncos will eventually turn out the quality of Leeds and wigan such that they can sit alongside them on the field, but it's a long long haul, and it must be easier for the Wigan and leeds kids to break into the pro ranks playing alongside top players in a winning team.

The "oh the London kids can sign up north" stuff is rubbish and born of a dislike for London Broncos from some quarters. London have struggled to sign northern players, adults who could hack moving 200 miles for a professional wage, never mind kids playing for peanuts in youth teams.

I suppose if Broncos go they'll keep the academy in line with Cumbrian and Welsh academies, but it will be put to every RL kid in London wanting a pro career that the deal is make it down here and you'll have to leave for the north.

It's ridiculous to argue this will all be OK on the basis that you just don't like London Broncos.

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Here come the one sentence responses to some (but not all) stupid comments

 

It's not much of a point to argue that London should remain a SL side because their academy has produced more SL players than a club that has never been a SL side. How would a Fev academy player play SL other than by leaving the Fev club altogether? 

by leaving the club after playing for the academy much like Louie Mc' Scars is a London product

 

But the point is the game needs players to be developed in BOTH Feathersone AND in London.

Wether in Featherstones demise their best locals will just sign at Wakefield, and wether on London Broncos demise the best RL players will give up and go to Union for want of a local professional club to follow a career at is the central point.

It's just up the road from Fev to Wakey. It's 200 miles from London to Leeds academy.

 

exactly, there are two other existing pro clubs with pro scholarships and academies that can accommodate the best talent from Fev and its surrounding areas

Featherstone entered the professional ranks in the 1920s so I don't know where you get the 100 years from.

1920s, 1910s, it is still a long freaking time for the club to still be a minor player in the grand scheme and this will not change

 

Without London in SL the players being produced by London amateur clubs would get signed by other SL clubs directly or go to Hemel, Skolars or a non SL broncos and move on to SL clubs from there. I am sure there are not as many SL players from Fev because Fev actually sign them for themselves rather than them all going to SL clubs. If London need support to suceed then fine but why should they get it in preference to any other club.?

 

This comment has already been countered suitably by another poster.

Baseball has one club from outside the USA but in the three world cups they have held, with the USA competing, Japan has won twice and the Dominican Republic the third, so I would be wary about citing baseball to support your argument because it dosn't.

 

it doesn't detract from my point that there are much larger sporting competitions than SL that are purely international or have inter-national sides in them.

 

As usual you picked the bit of a post to support your argument and ignored the rest. There would be three semi pro clubs in the London area with another 30 miles away at Oxford who would be an alternative option for players coming out of London amateur RL as well as the SL clubs from the North.

 

So some would sign directly for the London clubs and move to SL outfits if they were found to be good enough and some would sign directly for SL clubs and revert to the London semi pro game if they were cut loose from SL. This is just like the scenario in Cumbria and other areas, Oldham maybe.

 

The fate of the London amateur scene does not hinge on the fate of the Broncos.thank goodness.

 

who is talking about the survival of the London amateur scene and when in the past have northern clubs signed promising southern youngsters before.

I remain unconvinced that the burgeoning of the amateur game in London over recent years has anything other than a tenuous link with London Broncos being in Superleague.  It's not like the kids are watching the Broncos in any numbers is it?

 

we were discussing the number of youngsters graduating to SL (at any club) that have been trained through the London academies.

 

 

a mistaken multi quote click on this one

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perspective of what exactly that if a hand full of rich men propping up super league teams professional rugby league would not exist in this country. What makes a rich backer propping up featherstone rovers different from probably more than half the teams in super league, don't give me garbage about other factors weighing against fev like most of this thread because it all lies down to someone pumping money into the club just like the rest. So if someone will then they are no less deserving then teams at the top of super league.

somebody tries to make sense of the historic messes  that Rugy League is in: please don't make me go over them yet again. . It doesn't suit you and that makes it 'unjust'. Playing the victim card seems to be some kind of tradition.

 

Would you like some examples of real injustices?

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Featherstone are growing at a faster rate than some SL clubs and in some cases the SL clubs are going backwards. Just because I'm a Fev fan it doesn't cloud my judgement and I'm not saying Fev should be in SL( as its a small place). But Fev have/are doing everything that was asked of them to become an elite team so on that basis alone I don't see why they or any other club for that matter who meet the criteria can't be aloud a crack at the top flight as long as they have the financial backing to back it up and make a serious go of it.

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somebody tries to make sense of the historic messes that Rugy League is in: please don't make me go over them yet again. . It doesn't suit you and that makes it 'unjust'. Playing the victim card seems to be some kind of tradition.

Would you like some examples of real injustices?

ha ha ha utter garbage if fev can afford it like they say they can they should be put in infront of a number of clubs already in who can't.

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Actually, if you analyse BskyB's accounts (i'm a shareholder), you'll see that subscription and platform carriage charges (eg what they charge the likes of Dave for using their platform) far exceed advertising revenue.

 

This doesn't surprise me at all.  Sky+ has dented significantly the number of adverts that I endure nowadays, the only exception being the ones during live sport.

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Here come the one sentence responses to some (but not all) stupid comments

 

by leaving the club after playing for the academy much like Louie Mc' Scars is a London product

In which case you would claim that they were not a Fev product at all. Does anyone claim that Jason Robinson was a Hunslet product?

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They've only recently started the professional academy and it takes kids 10 years to go from 8 to 18 and even then the big clubs will only unearth one or two quality professionals per year. Look at the years the players at Wigan and Leeds came through and it's a very slow process.

Who knows if the Broncos will eventually turn out the quality of Leeds and wigan such that they can sit alongside them on the field, but it's a long long haul, and it must be easier for the Wigan and leeds kids to break into the pro ranks playing alongside top players in a winning team.

The "oh the London kids can sign up north" stuff is rubbish and born of a dislike for London Broncos from some quarters. London have struggled to sign northern players, adults who could hack moving 200 miles for a professional wage, never mind kids playing for peanuts in youth teams.

I suppose if Broncos go they'll keep the academy in line with Cumbrian and Welsh academies, but it will be put to every RL kid in London wanting a pro career that the deal is make it down here and you'll have to leave for the north.

It's ridiculous to argue this will all be OK on the basis that you just don't like London Broncos.

London have struggled to sign northern players because they have no money. For the same reason they struggle to retain London born and bred players.

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Well that's over half the SL relegated then.Our BOD as said we want to be a top 6 team in SL not just to make the numbers up. We also have investors waiting in the wings if we get the nod for SL. I think the RFL would be foolish to turn all that money away from the game.

Where are these players going to come from to make you a top 6 club may I ask.

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