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The Future is League

Reds to bid for Dobson and Paterson?

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Michael Dobson and Corey Paterson are contracted until 2014. Everything else is just paper talk...

Which means Rovers can command more cash through transfer fees which they won't be able to a bit further down the line.

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Which means Rovers can command more cash through transfer fees which they won't be able to a bit further down the line.

 

It is all circumstantial of course and there are many factors to consider: will we receive significant financial investment, will we offer Sandercock an extended deal, will we make the playoffs this year.

 

I hope the answer to all of these questions is a big fat yes but you just never know.

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If you don't want to know about the business side, just ignore it and watch whoever turns out for you in red and white.

But that would make me gullible and I'm not gullible. I do know about the business side, just by absorbing a lot of sport and being, you know, inquisitive. So I can't ignore it. But I shouldn't have to worry about it, or follow its lead. I grew up following Hull KR but I'm not bound by oath to do so blindly. If we sell Dobbo and/or Paterson to balance the books (2 of only 4 genuine calibre players we have I turn up to watch), then what really is the point of it all?

All threads on here really lead to one conclusion just now - Super League needs a reality check.

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But that would make me gullible and I'm not gullible. I do know about the business side, just by absorbing a lot of sport and being, you know, inquisitive. So I can't ignore it. But I shouldn't have to worry about it, or follow its lead. I grew up following Hull KR but I'm not bound by oath to do so blindly. If we sell Dobbo and/or Paterson to balance the books (2 of only 4 genuine calibre players we have I turn up to watch), then what reall

y is the point of it all?

All threads on here really lead to one conclusion just now - Super League

needs a reality check.

To be honest I think it's you who needs a reality check. You say you understand how it works because you follow sport. Then seem surprised that a cashed up teams looking to take the best players from teams struggling for cash. I'm afraid that's just how pro sport works.

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Sport in some clubs are bigger than others shocker! Every major league in football has been dominated by the same clubs for years without any detriment. Only in rugby league do fans moan about it. Having four or five out of fourteen who could be potential champions is a good ratio. Even if all the clubs were superbly ran and making a profit someone would have to come last and would be open to players moving on.

The aim has always been all clubs can spend the same so coming last would not open up the bottom clubs playing roster to raids.

Besides who wants to sign players who came last?

Unsure here but what happens in the NRL? Does the bottom club get shorn of their best talent every year?

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Brown to Widnes

 

Contracts mean nothing,

 

Holdsworth to Hull

Moon to Leeds

Smith to Wigan

Myler to Warrington

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Sa

 

The aim has always been all clubs can spend the same so coming last would not open up the bottom clubs playing roster to raids.

Besides who wants to sign players who came last?

Unsure here but what happens in the NRL? Does the bottom club get shorn of their best talent every year?

 

Salford haven't had a good side for a while but often have players wanted by bigger clubs.

 

it isn't so much that the worse sides get shorn of talent but more that certain clubs will always be more attractive than others. If I played for Parramatta and melbourne came in for me I'd be tempted as I reckon I'd have more chance of winning things. Likewise if Brisbane came in as they have a good history and play in front of huge crowds. Using football again, man utd will always be more attractive than city as the history and crowds are there. no matter the money on offer. Equal money obviously helps level the effect but the likes of wigan and leeds will always be bigger clubs than most.

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Part of me actually hopes this comes off and puts me out of my misery. I want to be either in or out - the whole hierarchical struggle of following a "sell to survive" club is just draining. Then I can go and watch NRL as one of Bill Simmons "atheists" and enjoy genuinely competitive, financially sound RL.

 

Sell to survive was the way for a hundred years until the Bosman Ruling, strangely enough, in 1995.

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But that would make me gullible and I'm not gullible. I do know about the business side, just by absorbing a lot of sport and being, you know, inquisitive. So I can't ignore it. But I shouldn't have to worry about it, or follow its lead. I grew up following Hull KR but I'm not bound by oath to do so blindly. If we sell Dobbo and/or Paterson to balance the books (2 of only 4 genuine calibre players we have I turn up to watch), then what really is the point of it all?

All threads on here really lead to one conclusion just now - Super League needs a reality check.

As relative newcomers to SL, I think you should give HKR more time - let's face it, until Hudge started piling in the cash, they were destined to remain 2nd grade.

Or don't you trust him now that the garden isn't quite so Rosey? :O

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As a fan of a pro sport team I shouldn't have to even know what a business model is.

Why shouldn't you?!

Seriously, you just moan about the game and your club. You b*tch about Leeds fans winning trophies all the time, but refuse to watch your club during the hard times. You are the type of fan the game could do without to be honest. Doom and gloom. Never able to be pleased. Spreader of the negative.

I'll join the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" group. More fans may watch our game when the negative nancies leave to go find where the grass is greener.

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Salford haven't had a good side for a while but often have players wanted by bigger clubs.

 

it isn't so much that the worse sides get shorn of talent but more that certain clubs will always be more attractive than others.

Yes sir, quite agree that all salaries being even the top players will then want to play for the trophy winning clubs.

but currently players move up because they can get more money. If all clubs spent the cap as you say quality players may move for the trophies, the next hurdle to jump would be the need to develop more quality players than we do, where the young guns pressure the older players, rather than what we have where a top player can follow a 15 year career and still be highly in demand as he approaches his 40's!

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Yes sir, quite agree that all salaries being even the top players will then want to play for the trophy winning clubs.

but currently players move up because they can get more money. If all clubs spent the cap as you say quality players may move for the trophies, the next hurdle to jump would be the need to develop more quality players than we do, where the young guns pressure the older players, rather than what we have where a top player can follow a 15 year career and still be highly in demand as he approaches his 40's!

 

Well, I suppose the first hurdle is financial stability, so I'll let you have "next hurdle", but to me it is essential to any club. My club haven't exactly performed on this front in the past, but this year our team is packed with our own "young ones" and I am really happy about this. I am proud of this team, even though we are losing most weeks. I know they got their chance because of exceptional circumstances, but they got their chance and they're doing their best and I'm enjoying it. Ideally, I want a Salford team full of Salford-developed players. (We do need a few 'outsiders', though - we'd be sunk without Gleeson and Griffin in particular at the moment).

 

I don't think I'm alone in this. Which are the two best-supported teams in RL at the moment? (Wigan and Leeds?) Which teams have the highest proportion of 'home-grown' players at the moment? (I'm not sure, but I'd guess Wigan and Leeds?) Of course, it could just be coincidence. Or not!

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I'm not gullible. I do know about the business side, just by absorbing a lot of sport and being, you know, inquisitive. So I can't ignore it. But I shouldn't have to worry about it, or follow its lead. I grew up following Hull KR but I'm not bound by oath to do so blindly. If we sell Dobbo and/or Paterson to balance the books (2 of only 4 genuine calibre players we have I turn up to watch), then what really is the point of it all?

All threads on here really lead to one conclusion just now - Super League needs a reality check.

I don't agree with your conclusion at all, but I also don't agree you should shut the door on your way out. I understand the point your making.

I started watching Hunslet at a time when our 1965 Wembley squad was breaking up. Leeds took Ramsey and Eyre to help that process. By 1973 we were bust and closing down, but the club was resurrected. Leeds took our two best players Marshall and Sanderson to hamper that process. We then struggled for credibility with the local junior scene and the best just went to the top clubs. Leeds took Heron and eventually Schofield.

Even so there were great times. 1976-1996 we were in the top division three times, and we collected some great scalps including Leeds, Saints, Widnes (in a cup game) a double over Wigan and away wins at Fev and Cas. Junior players started to sign again and we had Skerret, Nickle and Jimmy Lowes for a time before they had to take the bigger money. Jimmy to Leeds.

Post 1996 we had our "destination Superleague" period culminating in winning promotion following in the steps of Wakefield and Hull. But the rest was history and decline to 150 old men voting to keep things alive followed by an abandonment of any ambition and enslavement as Leeds "A" team.

I agree that you moaning about your club losing it's best two players is a bit rich when so many of us have had to endure that for the last several decades, but your not daft and I think you can see where this process will most likely go, and it won't be the fantasy fans idea that in the Championship you will "re-build" for Superleague, because the record of the championship is clear, one of stagnation, decline, and dependance.

It was never going to be anything but that once the best part of £20,000,000 a year was going to be given to an elite, and the rest would not only get nothing, but be barred from that Elite. Entry is now merely by Millionaire benefactor and that's the only way you actually got in, Widnes got in and the only way Featherstone will manage it.

Where then for the 8,000 HKR fans? The 7,000 CAS fans? Where did the 4,000 halifax fans go? The 3,000 Oldham fans, 2,000 Leigh fans, or 1,500 Hunslet fans?? Some to Superleague, many through the door everyone seems to want to usher you out of, and that's a big price to pay.

But customers come and go and elite professional rugby league has gained the game far more more customers than it has lost to date. That's the reality that the Superleague clubs will check. People can do their own bluddy figures but IMHO if Cas and Rovers swap over with Toulouse and Fev come 2015, or if the former two drop out the customer base of Rugby League will still be seen as higher under the current set up than it ever was pre 1996, and the SKY contract tremendous compensation for the loss of fans and clubs as independant entities.

Indeed Adam Pearson will be rubbing his hands.

If you believe Superleague should alter to accommodate your club, then can mine have the same please??

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So what's the issue here? A club may sell players so a fan wants out of the game? Seems a bit mard to me. Glad I didn't walk away from the game when Warrington had to sell Iestyn Harris and Paul Sculthorpe.

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Well, I suppose the first hurdle is financial stability, so I'll let you have "next hurdle", but to me it is essential to any club.

Ideally, I want a Salford team full of Salford-developed players. (We do need a few 'outsiders', though - we'd be sunk without Gleeson and Griffin in particular at the moment).

 

I don't think I'm alone in this. Which are the two best-supported teams in RL at the moment? (Wigan and Leeds?) Which teams have the highest proportion of 'home-grown' players at the moment? (I'm not sure, but I'd guess Wigan and Leeds?) Of course, it could just be coincidence. Or not!

No coincidence at all IMHO.

If Koukash had his way your academy would be (via his cheque book) full of top class young players pretty quickly, it's just that they'd all be Wigan and Saints lads turning up because Kooky can pay them double.

The game lacks a junior base large enough to create 14 vibrant playing rosters where the old men are under pressure and the young guns provide the competitiveness to invigorate attendances, and help protect us from defections to richer sports/leagues.

This year looking at the starting SL squads....

There were two Wakefield born lads in Superleague.

There were five Warrington born lads in Superleague.

There were seven Bradford born lads in Superleague.

There were seven Huddersfield born lads in Superleague.

There were five Manchester/Salford born lads in Superleague.

To manage to make up their squads this year they had to mainly drag in scores of overseas players, and feed off the excess of Leeds and Wigan lads.

HKR by the way had more Hull born lads in their 25 than Hull........

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So what's the issue here? A club may sell players so a fan wants out of the game? Seems a bit mard to me. Glad I didn't walk away from the game when Warrington had to sell Iestyn Harris and Paul Sculthorpe.

To be fair to Keeny the issue isn't Rovers selling two players.

I think (and keeny can let us know) the issue is his anticipated Rovers decline in on field performances as a result, the anticipated consequence of drop in crowds and the anticipation to make ends meet the club will sell again if they can e.g. Mickey Paea/Kris Welham.

The model he's probably basing this on is Cas, and again at a guess down the line he sees HKR's SL application being refused and you know where that will take the club, probably back to pre-Hudgell days and crowds around 1500.

In one Keeny?

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Been coming and would really spell the end of us as a Super League proposition if it pans out. I'd bail if we lose either or both. Having said that, they'd be my 2 priority targets if I were Dr K.

Rich and newly rich sides hovering around the carcasses of rotting clubs. Oh dear oh dear Super League, whenever will you learn?

 

I read with interest you persistent and ill informed postings recently that Wakefield, Castleford and Featherstone should consider merging despite there being no real cultural or shared identity.  Not to mention the significant gaps between the conurbation and the draw of Leeds from Castleford. 

 

I now note that you feel that the loss of a couple of players from your own club would signal the end of them in the top division of the game, and that would mean you walking away.  It's interesting that you're not suggesting that HKR merge with FC now.  Why is this?

 

Note, I'd hate to see a(nother) Hull merger, but it's essentially one conurbation and one city.

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To be fair to Keeny the issue isn't Rovers selling two players.

I think (and keeny can let us know) the issue is his anticipated Rovers decline in on field performances as a result, the anticipated consequence of drop in crowds and the anticipation to make ends meet the club will sell again if they can e.g. Mickey Paea/Kris Welham.

The model he's probably basing this on is Cas, and again at a guess down the line he sees HKR's SL application being refused and you know where that will take the club, probably back to pre-Hudgell days and crowds around 1500.

In one Keeny?

Yep - so it's up to his club to stop any rot.

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Players come and go, as do benefactors.  That's the thing that clubs and their fans need to grasp and plan for. 

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The facts as they stand:

As a Hull KR fan I would like to follow and have faith in Hull KR.

As someone who has many demands on my time and money I am fussy and selective and not interested in following a "sell to survive" team, whether this is Hull KR or anyone else.

If someone decrees a merged Hull side is the best solution I would tend to agree and follow said side in the name of progress.

Dobson and Paterson are far and away our 2 best players. With them we're a borderline play-off team, without them we're barely even SL standard.

The rest of you do the maths. Blame me for being disloyal all you want but I'm merely the voice of an inevitable fan drain if this pans out. Rovers would be lucky to get 5K next season without Dobson and Paterson.

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To be honest I think it's you who needs a reality check. You say you understand how it works because you follow sport. Then seem surprised that a cashed up teams looking to take the best players from teams struggling for cash. I'm afraid that's just how pro sport IN THE UK works.

Fixed.

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Why shouldn't you?!

Seriously, you just moan about the game and your club. You b*tch about Leeds fans winning trophies all the time, but refuse to watch your club during the hard times. You are the type of fan the game could do without to be honest. Doom and gloom. Never able to be pleased. Spreader of the negative.

I'll join the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" group. More fans may watch our game when the negative nancies leave to go find where the grass is greener.

Yes, as teams are cherry-picked of their best players more fans will flock through their gates.

Brilliant logic.

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As someone who has many demands on my time and money I am fussy and selective and not interested in following a "sell to survive" team, whether this is Hull KR or anyone else.

If someone decrees a merged Hull side is the best solution I would tend to agree and follow said side in the name of progress.

The rest of you do the maths. Blame me for being disloyal all you want.

Absolutely fair play to you and your admission you'd be interested in a merged side and would follow it is again fair play for your honesty.

Forget the loyalty rubbish. The vast majority of fans go to be entertained, and when they are not they don't go.

It shows in the crowds.

The only remaining question is this. IMHO there will not be a merger. Pearson will likely bide his time ensuring any players he fancies for Hull at HKR he has a go at. He'll also look to ensure the best juniors now pick Hull Academy where there's currently more of a guaranteed future and bigger wages.

He'll market Hull FC to the whole of Hull and if this policy looks to be getting a bit mean towards HKR and they struggle he may save them from oblivion by offering them chance to be the "A" team. I've seen this happen before BTW.

Hull FC could benefit from Rovers out of the way, if FC hit the big time again would you go??

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Bit naughty of me amending bobbruce’s post like that but the point is that I can choose not to watch sport in the UK if I don’t like the way it is structured, which I don’t.

The Yanks and Aussies do not subscribe to “sell to survive”.

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Bit naughty of me amending bobbruce’s post like that but the point is that I can choose not to watch sport in the UK if I don’t like the way it is structured, which I don’t.

The Yanks and Aussies do not subscribe to “sell to survive”.

Nor does Superleague.

If you and Cas carry on selling to survive you will both be out.

Don't keep blaming Superleague.

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