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Ed Miliband

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The Polls are currently moving against him.  Needs to buck ideas up really!  (Or have the balls to sack balls)

 

For once in your life Ed, do something in the best interests of this country. i.e. keep on doing what you are doing. Its working!

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For once in your life Ed, do something in the best interests of this country. i.e. keep on doing what you are doing. Its working!

 

Best interests? As if the Tories have the country's best interest in mind. :rolleyes:

Edited by Severus

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Best interests? As if the Tories have the country's best interest in mind. :rolleyes:

Clearly the answer is yes.

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Clearly the answer is yes.

The whole country or just an ever reducing sub set of the country?

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Clearly the answer is yes.

This country is more than a few people's bank accounts.

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Of course, maligning the views, motives, beliefs, attitudes, etc of people and parties is part of the cut and thrust of what passes for reasoned political debate on here. You are of course entitled to believe what you want, just as millions of apparently equally educated, rational and sensible people believe in the existence of God. As we know, they are wrong, of course, but just like a number of posters on here, it does not stop them believing in an unsupportable fiction.

You and probably the nationally unrepresentative majority on here want to see a left of centre, socialist even, govt and thus it is in their own interests to promote that cause through their posts. Nothing wrong with that of course - we are all supposed to be sentient adults and can make up our own minds. However, trying to frighten the children and animals with tales of malevolent Tories hiding in the wings, stealing our money, our wives and our futures, says much about the weakness of political thinking on here. Substitute the word "immigrant" for " Tory" and you'd be quite rightly apoplectic with rage at such a fiction. Think about it.

Edited by JohnM

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Of course, maligning the views, motives, beliefs, attitudes, etc of people and parties is part of the cut and thrust of what passes for reasoned political debate on here.

You've got some neck posting that considering your 'contributions' on political threads on here.

Of the main three parties, in 2010 52% voted for left leaning parties compared to 32% for the Tories so I don't know where you get the impression that I am in the minority.

Also studies show that the right are far less likely to change voting habits and do not critically evaluate policies preferring to stick with their opinions that have been I indoctrinated/formed earlier in life. There statistically significant evidence that the more educated a person is, the more likely they are to lean to the left. I am not saying that this means Tories are thickies, rather they have done a good job in convincing a lot of people to vote for them who do not consider other arguments.

Edited by Severus

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Of course, maligning the views, motives, beliefs, attitudes, etc of people and parties is part of the cut and thrust of what passes for reasoned political debate on here. You are of course entitled to believe what you want, just as millions of apparently equally educated, rational and sensible people believe in the existence of God. As we know, they are wrong, of course, but just like a number of posters on here, it does not stop them believing in an unsupportable fiction.

You and probably the nationally unrepresentative majority on here want to see a left of centre, socialist even, govt and thus it is in their own interests to promote that cause through their posts. Nothing wrong with that of course - we are all supposed to be sentient adults and can make up our own minds. However, trying to frighten the children and animals with tales of malevolent Tories hiding in the wings, stealing our money, our wives and our futures, says much about the weakness of political thinking on here. Substitute the word "immigrant" for " Tory" and you'd be quite rightly apoplectic with rage at such a fiction. Think about it.

It was a left leaning, social democrat party that enabled this country to recover from the virtual bankruptcy that WWII had caused, a war we sleepwalked into, and nearly lost at the outset, under a Tory administration.  The post war Labour government not only brought the country out of the mess of WWII but founded the Welfare State, a system that successive Tory governments have striven to diminish and if possible abolish.  The Tory party at bottom is for the 5% of the population that owns 96% of the wealth in this country.  Any benefits most of us get from the Tories are usually electoral bribes to try and ensure they get re-lected.  Anyone who votes Tory who is not part of the  elite 5% is basically a dupe.

Edited by Trojan

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It was a left leaning, social democrat party that enabled this country to recover from the virtual bankruptcy that WWII had caused, a war we sleepwalked into, and nearly lost at the outset, under a Tory administration.  The post war Labour government not only brought the country out of the mess of WWII but founded the Welfare State, a system that successive Tory governments have striven to diminish and if possible abolish.  The Tory party at bottom is for the 5% of the population that owns 96% of the wealth in this country.  Any benefits most of us get from the Tories are usually electoral bribes to try and ensure they get re-lected.  Anyone who votes Tory who is not part of the  elite 5% is basically a dupe.

 

I think that is a bit harsh. They have different priorities to you, but that doesn't make them "dupes".

 

I can't bring myself to trust the Conservative Party when it comes to the Health Service and I can't bring myself to trust the Labour Party when it comes to the economy. I realise that I am looking in vain for the Goldilocks Party, but that doesn't mean I am anything other than a voter who can't find the right party to vote for. For what it's worth, I don't think I am in a minority of one, either!

 

Right now, my distrust of the Conservatives over Health (and a few other matters, but Health is the big one) outweighs my distrust of Labour over the economy, so I will probably vote Labour, albeit with a heavy heart (and a quiet prayer to a non-existent deity). It wouldn't take a lot to shift my personal balance, though.

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Barring the very odd exception, tories are 7 likely to ever vote labour and labour voters are never going to vote tory.

It's the bit in the middle that the major parties fight over. Folk like tony xiii who are wavering between parties and undecided which appeals most OR which is least distasteful/untrustworthy.

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I think that is a bit harsh. They have different priorities to you, but that doesn't make them "dupes".

 

My friends who are dyed in the wool Tories seem to view supporting the Tory party like they would a sports team, i.e., Tory for life, voting any other way would be disloyal. They aren't hugely wealthy and by their own admission think that socialised medicine, the welfare state and employment law are good things, yet they still vote and support the Tories. When I pointed out some of the Tories policies their response was incredulous 'do you really think the Tories would be that mean?' was their response. Extrapolate that out over a sizeable portion of the population and I think you have the answer why we are in a Tory led coalition. 

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My friends who are dyed in the wool Tories seem to view supporting the Tory party like they would a sports team, i.e., Tory for life, voting any other way would be disloyal. They aren't hugely wealthy and by their own admission think that socialised medicine, the welfare state and employment law are good things, yet they still vote and support the Tories. When I pointed out some of the Tories policies their response was incredulous 'do you really think the Tories would be that mean?' was their response. Extrapolate that out over a sizeable portion of the population and I think you have the answer why we are in a Tory led coalition. 

 

Are they "dupes"? "Naive", perhaps? Whatever they are, it's the generalisation that can't be applied with any confidence. Many British voters have been set in their ways for years. I don't view them as dupes. To me, they just don't apply rational thought to their voting preferences. They are like me and my choice of RL team (and it was a conscious decision). I mean, who in their right mind, would have chosen Salford in 1977 and stuck by them until now? There's no logic. Maybe I am a dupe to stick by them under Marwan?  ;)

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:D  :D especially for the lefties on here: why you are probably wrong about almost everything.http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/oct/29/todays-key-fact-you-are-probably-wrong-about-almost-everything

 

It would be interesting to see that data against peoples voting habits. It's my theory, and it's only a theory, that the more to the right you go the further away from the real numbers you would get on the questions of immigrants, muslims and people on benefits etc. 

 

If that were the case would you accept it a proof that those of a socialist persuasion were more intelligent than those of the right? ;)

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That would be patently untrue, a flawed hypothesis, judging by a number of the lefts posts on here.

Edited by JohnM

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Yet again you are simply telling people they are wrong without any arguments to back it up.

No point doing that. Entrenched positions are mandatory on here.

Interesting , though, as the piece reveals, what people think, is not necessarily what is.

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Barring the very odd exception, tories are 7 likely to ever vote labour and labour voters are never going to vote tory.

It's the bit in the middle that the major parties fight over. Folk like tony xiii who are wavering between parties and undecided which appeals most OR which is least distasteful/untrustworthy.

Do you mean the 'what's best for me' voters and the 'what's best for society' electorate?

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Do you mean the 'what's best for me' voters and the 'what's best for society' electorate?

 

Yes, but Miliband's faction runs the Labour Party on a 'what's best for me' philosophy.

 

Hence his fear of praising Gordon Brown's efforts on the Labour Party's behalf in the Scottish Referendum.

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Are the days of relying on a core vote plus a chunk of the swinging centre gone?

 

UKIP, SNP and (to lesser degree) are all eating into that core vote.

 

Labours master plan was to count on the core vote and grab some of the central ground by looking tough on scroungers and following austerity.  That plan is now looking flawed as the SNP could make big ground in Scotland.

 

Labour to get most seats but no majority is the current fave prediction.

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If Labour get most seats but no majority I'm sure they'll form a minority government with support from the nats, the Lib/Dems and various Ulster parties.  Last time, according to Andrew Adonis's book, had he been given the chance Brown could have cobbled together a rag-tag coalition including the above, but Clegg preferred to get into bed with Dave, I think he may learn the error of this plan next May!

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 “I rather liked David Miliband and have a sneaking suspicion he may return strengthened by his time out in the real world. But this lot? The Chuka Harman Burnham Hunt Balls brigade? I can't, in all seriousness, go into a booth and put my mark on any one of them.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11196959/Maureen-Lipman-abandons-Ed-Miliband-over-Israel.html

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 “I rather liked David Miliband and have a sneaking suspicion he may return strengthened by his time out in the real world. But this lot? The Chuka Harman Burnham Hunt Balls brigade? I can't, in all seriousness, go into a booth and put my mark on any one of them.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11196959/Maureen-Lipman-abandons-Ed-Miliband-over-Israel.html

The thing is that there's no-one in Labour capable of replacing the stooges named there.  The last 18 years or so have seen it become far harder for anyone outside of the "in crowd" to get a chance at a winnable seat, it's seen that you either have to be a "name" like Del Piero or have done your apprenticeship within the central office to get a sniff these days.  Labour is in the same state now as the Tory IDS leadership phase, during IDS's tme the Labour Party just did as they saw fit with no credible opposition at all, right now even a middling Tory party should be running Labour ragged with the no-hopers in charge of Labour.  On the other side, a semi-credible Labour party would have already buried the Coalition and be sitting as kings-in-waiting for the next election given the amount of easy hits that the Coalition have served up.

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The thing is that there's no-one in Labour capable of replacing the stooges named there.  The last 18 years or so have seen it become far harder for anyone outside of the "in crowd" to get a chance at a winnable seat, it's seen that you either have to be a "name" like Del Piero or have done your apprenticeship within the central office to get a sniff these days.  Labour is in the same state now as the Tory IDS leadership phase, during IDS's tme the Labour Party just did as they saw fit with no credible opposition at all, right now even a middling Tory party should be running Labour ragged with the no-hopers in charge of Labour.  On the other side, a semi-credible Labour party would have already buried the Coalition and be sitting as kings-in-waiting for the next election given the amount of easy hits that the Coalition have served up.

Which is why so many people don't vote nowadays.

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