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Ed Miliband

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The vote to remain in the UK was hardly overwhelming....

If the SNP command anything like their support for the yes campaign labour will get walloped in may in Scotland

The SNP got to pick the question. In fairness it should have been "should Scotland leave the UK" instead it was "do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country"  forcing those who wanted to maintain the Union to campaign for a "no" vote - always difficult.

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We haven't a lot of choice really have we. I suppose we never really have. Miliband is unvoteable, Cameron is the best of a bad bunch. Crikey Johnson is favourite to be tory leader after him. Clegg and the Lib dems will go the way of the Greens. All the Parties are dismissing the UKIP at their peril. A protest both Labour and The tories have said! They'll be the third biggest party by he next election and one of the supposed big two may need them as I believe another coalition government is around the corner.

 

Why is Miliband unelectable? I'm not sure who I am going to vote for next year but if it is Labour it won't be because I think Milliband is unelectable. 

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Why is Miliband unelectable? I'm not sure who I am going to vote for next year but if it is Labour it won't be because I think Milliband is unelectable. 

 

To the general public, any party that could elect Miliband as leader is likely to be itself considered unelectable.

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To the general public, any party that could elect Miliband as leader is likely to be itself considered unelectable.

 

Why?

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I suspect we have what we have because we don't take an active interest... or participate enough.

 

If you do I apologise... if you don't stop bemoaning and get more involved - you may find that not everybody agrees with your specific point and compromise leads to slightly different outcomes but at least you got involved.

 

Again I apologise but I do find it amusing that people complain about an out of touch westminster from their armchair, so to speak.   

 

On a side note... I would say that almost all MPs including the leaders are more aware of the issues and problems that other people have, more so than we do amongst our own relatively narrow friends and colleagues.  They have constituents that bring those issues and problems to them as part of their non westminster work.   That is they have more awareness than I would and any of my contacts have. I suspect I and my contacts are no different than most people.  In other words I never think they are so out of touch as people...well the media like to portray and we like to agree with from our armchair cause thats all we do when it comes to politics.

 

Again I apologise for showing my frustration of the lack of interest by general population yet constant moaning at those that try and represent us that they don't understand us....

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Why?

 

 

A party machine with poor judgement and an apparent dominance by a faction that lacks pragmatism.

 

He's this decade's Michael Foot.

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A party machine with poor judgement and an apparent dominance by a faction that lacks pragmatism.

He's this decade's Michael Foot.

He's better than David Cameron.

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Ed comes across as awkward and has the Michael Foot talent of appearing (or being portrayed) in a bad light.

 

Cameron has a much better appearance and appears more Prime Ministerial.  We don't vote for the PM but we all know it's a factor.

 

Now it can be argued that the press have given EdM this image and I doubt his PR team have helped (The Sun incident a while ago and the backtrack). 

 

He had the chance to sack Balls a few weeks ago but by all accounts bottled it, this could of been a moment to energise his campaign and get rid of baggage. 

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A party machine with poor judgement and an apparent dominance by a faction that lacks pragmatism.

 

He's this decade's Michael Foot.

I don't think Ed Miliband is much like Michael Foot at all.

 

Foot was a conviction politician who loved the rough and tumble of the hustings, so much so that he eschewed the PR side of politics, to his ultimate disadvantage.

 

Miliband is a cerebral politician who almost seems to be frightened of his own shadow, not to mention the wider electorate.

 

I don't think he's a stupid politician by any means, but he does seem to lack a degree of self-confidence.

 

You could never have accused Michael Foot of that.

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I don't think Ed Miliband is much like Michael Foot at all.

Foot was a conviction politician who loved the rough and tumble of the hustings, so much so that he eschewed the PR side of politics, to his ultimate disadvantage.

Miliband is a cerebral politician who almost seems to be frightened of his own shadow, not to mention the wider electorate.

I don't think he's a stupid politician by any means, but he does seem to lack a degree of self-confidence.

You could never have accused Michael Foot of that.

That's a fair assessment. Perhaps the problem is we are turning into the U.S. where politicians have to look and appear a certain way.

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Labour leaders have it tough.  The only Labour leaders I recall who haven't been maltreated by the media are Wilson in his early days, and Blair.  The rest all get monstered.  Foot, a conviction politician was too unaware of what the media were doing to him.  Kinnock was part of the "dream team" with Hattersley until he became leader, then despite his courage in taking on the loony left of his party, and reforming it he was portrayed as "the Welsh Windbag"  Callaghan got poor treatment in the "winter of discontent" and Brown, despite effectively rescuing capitalism from its own excesses got dumped on too.  I'm afraid it's part of the territory for a Labour leader.  The only answer is to win the election and show the people how good you really are.  I'm sure had Cameron, when he was opposition leader, received the treatment Milliband is currently receiving from the right wing press, he probably wouldn't even have achieved largest party in 2010.  After all even with all the advantages a Tory leader gets, plus a tired unpopular government, and a financial crisis, he still couldn't win.  Primarily IMO because he comes across as a basically insincere, unpleasant man.

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......

.  After all even with all the advantages a Tory leader gets, plus a tired unpopular government, and a financial crisis, he still couldn't win.  Primarily IMO because he comes across as a basically insincere, unpleasant man.

 

Funny enough I have a different opinion. He came across as a sincere and pleasant person... especially when he talks about the NHS and how they looked after his son before his death.

 

No leader gets favorable media coverage, the media are totally cynical in their portrayal and most people form their opinion from that negative and cynical reporting.   

 

That's why everybody says that westminister and MPs are disconnected from the rest of us... without considering fully whether they are or not - they hear it so often from the media they believe it. What they mean is if they really thought about it........ because they don't agree with my own personal view they must be disconnected because if they where in my position they wouldn't see things differently.... if that came from a politician one would accuse them of arrogance that their view was the only possible view...

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Funny enough I have a different opinion. He came across as a sincere and pleasant person... especially when he talks about the NHS and how they looked after his son before his death.

 

You have got to be kidding. His use of his son's tragic death to defend his government's treatment of the NHS is deplorable. He oozes arrogance, the type you get from an Eton/Oxbridge education and membership of the Bullington club.

Edited by Severus

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You have got to be kidding. His use of his son's tragic death to defend his government's treatment of the NHS is deplorable. He oozes arrogance, the type you get from an Eton/Oxbridge education and membership of the Bullington club.

Aye he does... but George Osborne has the gold medal sewn up. My perception is one of a right arrogant ####. However, I know people who know Georgey boy. People of left leaning political stance who genuinely suggest that he's a really nice pleasant polite and considerate bloke!!!!

Now, Hazel Blears. .... now she is a treacherous selfish up her own alley kind of sort. Having had the displeasure of her company a couple of times I have to say her persona matched my perception of her perfectly.

Edited by Robin Evans

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Funny enough I have a different opinion. He came across as a sincere and pleasant person... especially when he talks about the NHS and how they looked after his son before his death.

 

 

You have to be kidding?

 

The way he talks about his son and the brilliant way that the NHS cared for him whilst systematically destroying it is disgusting.  Really disgusting.

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You have to be kidding?

 

The way he talks about his son and the brilliant way that the NHS cared for him whilst systematically destroying it is disgusting.  Really disgusting.

 

you may think I'm delusional or not as someone may suggest..... but nope I don't think he or the current government are or have destroyed the NHS.    

 

What specific policy is being used to destroy the NHS that wasn't introduced by Andy Burnham in the first place,,,,  cause we have to discount those if we think it would be safe in Burnhams and unite's hands.

 

There major issues with funding the NHS ongoing in the future and no easy solutions. A realistic debate would be good and ideally a cross party approach ideal. In the meantime I was happy that the current government chose not to cut the spending unlike Labours 12% proposed cut in funding they argued for back when the government chose to stick to level funding - Labour making a big fuss that it would be wrong not to cut the funding and they would have by 12%..  

 

Anyway personally I don't like the NHS being a political football, especially don't like simplistic slogan shouting. Would much rather have a sensible debate for sure.  Unfortunately Labour see it as their big strength and advantage over Tory and so will forever use it as that political football.. no different that any other party trying to highlight and discredit the opposition in their stronger public perception.

 

Personally I take each parties slogans and political attacks for what they are, listen to the debates in parliament, analysis as best one can what is happening from reports, media and my own experience and come to my own conclusion.  As distinct by swallowing what any, including Andy Burnham tells me... I specifically mention Andy Burnham as I just can not stand his hypocrisy when it comes to his attacks on policy being carried out today that where introduced by him in the first place.  

Edited by redjonn

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you may think I'm delusional or not as someone may suggest..... but nope I don't think he or the current government are or have destroyed the NHS.    

 

What specific policy is being used to destroy the NHS that wasn't introduced by Andy Burnham in the first place,,,,  cause we have to discount those if we think it would be safe in Burnhams and unite's hands.

 

There major issues with funding the NHS ongoing in the future and no easy solutions. A realistic debate would be good and ideally a cross party approach ideal. In the meantime I was happy that the current government chose not to cut the spending unlike Labours 12% proposed cut in funding they argued for back when the government chose to stick to level funding - Labour making a big fuss that it would be wrong not to cut the funding and they would have by 12%..  

 

Anyway personally I don't like the NHS being a political football, especially don't like simplistic slogan shouting. Would much rather have a sensible debate for sure.  Unfortunately Labour see it as their big strength and advantage over Tory and so will forever use it as that political football.. no different that any other party trying to highlight and discredit the opposition in their stronger public perception.

 

Personally I take each parties slogans and political attacks for what they are, listen to the debates in parliament, analysis as best one can what is happening from reports, media and my own experience and come to my own conclusion.  As distinct by swallowing what any, including Andy Burnham tells me... I specifically mention Andy Burnham as I just can not stand his hypocrisy when it comes to his attacks on policy being carried out today that where introduced by him in the first place.  

 

I didn't call or suggest that you were delusional.  That was somebody else.

 

Mrs the Leit has worked in the NHS her entire career, and whilst there is much truth in your comments, we have witnessed an acceleration towards privatisation at warp speed and the reduction in genuine service during this present government's tenure from a slow snail like creep.

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you may think I'm delusional or not as someone may suggest..... but nope I don't think he or the current government are or have destroyed the NHS.    

 

What specific policy is being used to destroy the NHS that wasn't introduced by Andy Burnham in the first place,,,,  cause we have to discount those if we think it would be safe in Burnhams and unite's hands.

 

There major issues with funding the NHS ongoing in the future and no easy solutions. A realistic debate would be good and ideally a cross party approach ideal. In the meantime I was happy that the current government chose not to cut the spending unlike Labours 12% proposed cut in funding they argued for back when the government chose to stick to level funding - Labour making a big fuss that it would be wrong not to cut the funding and they would have by 12%..  

 

Anyway personally I don't like the NHS being a political football, especially don't like simplistic slogan shouting. Would much rather have a sensible debate for sure.  Unfortunately Labour see it as their big strength and advantage over Tory and so will forever use it as that political football.. no different that any other party trying to highlight and discredit the opposition in their stronger public perception.

 

Personally I take each parties slogans and political attacks for what they are, listen to the debates in parliament, analysis as best one can what is happening from reports, media and my own experience and come to my own conclusion.  As distinct by swallowing what any, including Andy Burnham tells me... I specifically mention Andy Burnham as I just can not stand his hypocrisy when it comes to his attacks on policy being carried out today that where introduced by him in the first place.  

If we had a real, honest debate about the NHS then the very notion that it is unaffordable, or unsustainable, would last about 30 seconds. It couldn't be further from the truth.

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I didn't call or suggest that you were delusional.  That was somebody else.

 

Mrs the Leit has worked in the NHS her entire career, and whilst there is much truth in your comments, we have witnessed an acceleration towards privatisation at warp speed and the reduction in genuine service during this present government's tenure from a slow snail like creep.

privatisation of the NHS started (if you discount that Doctoring was privatised from day one) in the eighties. Labour have form as well

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/kailash-chand/moment-of-honesty-is-required-new-labour-began-dismantling-of-our-nhs

Edited by l'angelo mysterioso

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If we had a real, honest debate about the NHS then the very notion that it is unaffordable, or unsustainable, would last about 30 seconds. It couldn't be further from the truth.

Absolutely.  We get an absolute bargain for our NHS.  That's especially true if you compare it like-for-like in state funding of healthcare across the G7 nations and clinical outcomes.  The US pays far more per-head in state funding of healthcare than we do yet their idea of state healthcare is "Have you insurance?  If not, there's a skip for you to die in.  Of course, we'll bill your family for your use of that skip".

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Absolutely.  We get an absolute bargain for our NHS.  That's especially true if you compare it like-for-like in state funding of healthcare across the G7 nations and clinical outcomes.  The US pays far more per-head in state funding of healthcare than we do yet their idea of state healthcare is "Have you insurance?  If not, there's a skip for you to die in.  Of course, we'll bill your family for your use of that skip".

I saw US healthcare up close when my girlfriend had a snowboarding accident 2 years ago. 

 

In the ambulance the paramedic told me that the hospital knew we were coming, had already checked the insurance documents I'd handed over, knew the money was there, and would therefore absolutely go to town on us. Sure enough, we arrived to find over a dozen staff waiting for us. We even had two separate counsellors speak to us - one to make sure I wasn't falling apart with grief and the other to deal with the mrs before we checked out the next morning.

 

We kept hold of the itemised bill as a memento. Even knowing what it would be like, it was astonishing to see it all laid out in black and white.

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