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The Daddy

Bringing back promotion and relegation will set the sport back in this country several years

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Only the challenge cup was on the BBC in the early nineties, I was already watching Eddie and Stevo on my BSB Squariel long before Super League started.

Internationals? Martin Offiah? etc Lots of people knew those players but hadn't a clue about RL. It doesn't indicate RL was better then.

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Internationals? Martin Offiah? etc Lots of people knew those players but hadn't a clue about RL. It doesn't indicate RL was better then.

Didn't say RL was better, but it certainly had a higher profile.

I'll concede the point about internationals, although they are on the BBC now

Actually, thinking about it, overseas internationals were on BSB or Sky, maybe highlights were on the BBC. Home internationals were certainly on the BBC though.

That was the proper international team too

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Didn't say RL was better, but it certainly had a higher profile.

I'll concede the point about internationals, although they are on the BBC now

 

It had a higher profile yes, but by default, not because it was the go to sport of millions. That it didn't build on that or make the game a lot bigger in that era tells me that all was not quite as great as some people are claiming and that simply bringing back P&R may not be the panacea that people are claiming. (exciting as it is)

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It had a higher profile yes, but by default, not because it was the go to sport of millions. That it didn't build on that or make the game a lot bigger in that era tells me that all was not quite as great as some people are claiming and that simply bringing back P&R may not be the panacea that people are claiming. (exciting as it is)

Drifting off topic a bit, but fwiw selling up lock stock and barrell to Sky was badly timed. Significant presence (not just the waining challenge cup) should have been kept on terrestrial TV, like cricket, soccer and RU did, until we had moved to the next level.

All of course in my opinion.

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All those sports have nationwide representation as the key bargaining tool. RL did not have that then. Indeed it never will if some have their way.

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That just doesn't sit with reality though does it?

Licensing has not prevented Wakey, Bulls and Salford going belly up, nor has it saved Leigh and Barrow from themselves.

Licensing has made the sport a procession of stale friendlies.

Licensing does not generate column inches in the press, P&R does.

Nobody sponsors us, because we have a low profile, see above.

Again licensing and the sl project in general isn't supposed to stop going belly up. There are many reasons for businesses to fail: you don't even have to be incompetent for your business to fail. What sl and licensing is supposed to do is manage their affairs in a more professional way, plan properly, and have clear goals that are realistic. Your own club is apparently an example of that very thing

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Drifting off topic a bit, but fwiw selling up lock stock and barrell to Sky was badly timed. Significant presence (not just the waining challenge cup) should have been kept on terrestrial TV, like cricket, soccer and RU did, until we had moved to the next level.

All of course in my opinion.

It wasn't supposed to be a panacea

But it was the salvation of a sport on the brink and your club voted for it.

Rugby league's treatment at the hands of the bbc was nothing like that if soccer, cricket, and rugby union in just about every aspect. All of these sports have lucrative partnership with sky.

The sky deal gave rugby league a fresh chance to break away from the historic shackles that had been holding it back. That chance to a great extent has been taken, thibgs were bound to gi wgrong and have, but it also has been hampered by small minded self interest amongst other factors.

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I mean players

alex murphy, jim mills, martin offiah, jonathon davies, paul newlove, ellery hanley, need i really go on???

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But it has been doing - the clubs going bust are ones that have been poorly run, not just the ones chasing promotion

Bit like Cas and Widnes when they both chased promotion, one club came up, one club went bust - they were interchangeable depending on the result of one promotion match

Moreover there IS a route into super league, and one that is sustainable - again as Widnes have admirably proved. They earned their elevation and then could take a longer term, stable plan to secure their presence in SL

IF they had been in peril of relegation they would have spent a packet to fight it off, and may not have succeeded

Why am I saying this? It's been said a million times and borne out in history.

This game is determined to destroy itself on the altar of P&R that has never worked

 

Widnes certainly didn't earn it on the pitch, they never even reached the grand final despite having the best budget. In the last season in the championship Fev put 40 past them home and away. The license has been a disaster and isn't sport, its just about SL protecting themselves. Promotion decided mid season in a boardroom every 3 years is an absolute disgrace.

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  So do I...Except the bit about it taking a few years, think it will be a lot quicker.

I think in an ideal world everyone would like P & R, unfortunately in RL world this means a huge leap from semi pro to a full time operation in just a few weeks when pre-season is taken into account.

then don't promote the same year make them wait another season give them time to prepare and build a team.

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licensing has allowed teams like widnes to be promoted and develop whilst in super league, we are gradually building a squad that will be competetive in super league as opposed to ###### or bust. can you imagine last seasons championship grand final winners (4th place sheffield) in super league this season regularly getting 50 or 60 points put past them every week with perhaps 800 home fans, what good would that be to the development of the game?

bloody hell i agree with him................

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Again licensing and the sl project in general isn't supposed to stop going belly up. There are many reasons for businesses to fail: you don't even have to be incompetent for your business to fail. What sl and licensing is supposed to do is manage their affairs in a more professional way, plan properly, and have clear goals that are realistic. Your own club is apparently an example of that very thing

OT you say your club but you're a Fev fan aren't you?

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Widnes certainly didn't earn it on the pitch, they never even reached the grand final despite having the best budget. In the last season in the championship Fev put 40 past them home and away. The license has been a disaster and isn't sport, its just about SL protecting themselves. Promotion decided mid season in a boardroom every 3 years is an absolute disgrace.

Widnes certainly did earn it on the pitch, which promotion criteria did they not achieve.

 

.

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OT you say your club but you're a Fev fan aren't you?

Fell out with the club by all accounts

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Only the challenge cup was on the BBC in the early nineties, I was already watching Eddie and Stevo on my BSB Squariel long before Super League started.

Challenge Cup

Regal Trophy

Home Internationals (including the likes of Wigan v Australia)

 

An example of the differences to now:

Wigan were on the BBC 6 times live in 92/93

5 times in 93/94

8 times in 94/95

 

I have no records for other teams.

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alex murphy, jim mills, martin offiah, jonathon davies, paul newlove, ellery hanley, need i really go on???

So I think we're agreeing that there were loads of household names then, not so many (if any at all) now

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OT you say your club but you're a Fev fan aren't you?

No

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Fell out with the club by all accounts

Who is this 'all' you speak of? Where do they get the information to make these 'accounts'?

I most certainly haven't 'fallen out' with featherstone rovers. I just haven't any connection wuth them for my own reasons.

I still enjoy the game.

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So I think we're agreeing that there were loads of household names then, not so many (if any at all) now

I doubt whether any of these people were household names: most households aren't interested in sport especially rugby league

Then as if now most households can think of a soccer player...Rooney, and Beckham more than likely, as for union: back in the day will carling because if princess Diana, and nowadays jonny wilkinson who is now at the end if his career anyway.

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I've been watching, listening and reading with both interest and shock at proposals and calls for the return of promotion/relegation.

Bringing back p&r would be totally the wrong decision for Super League and a return to boom and bust where clubs move between the championship and SL without stability, at the time licensing was introduced there were tangible reasons why it was felt it had to be implemented, those being allowing clubs to develop and put the right structures in place without fear of relegation as time in the top flight would bring about a continued development of professionalism both on and off the field strengthening the competitiveness of the sport.

Also we wanted clubs to have the time to develop young players without looking at the quick fixes of importing aussies and kiwis and the threat of relegation hanging over everyone's heads.

In short I actually think the suggested proposals are a cop out and don't challenge head on the underlying and real issues of the sport, which is lack of sponsorship, adding value to the SL product, players moving to NRL/Union, media presence and the geographical spread of the sport at the top level so in my books the sport will continue to be underlings to the NRL and Union.

We are pandering to the lowest common denominator and trying to cut a slice of the SL TV money pie to everyone who wants a piece of the action when the initial purpose of SL was elite competition with elite players and clubs.....this will not address the problems and predict that should these proposals go through we will be back discussing the same problems within the game in a few years time.

Completely disagree

Who wants to sponsor a sport that only has 14 clubs with the rest left to rot? Who wants to sponsor a top league with meaningless games for lower teams. Who wants to invest in a club outside SL when there is absolutely no guarantee your cash investment will get you up. Who wants to watch meaningless games outside SL? Who wants to watch a newly formed club in their thousands when there is no chance of SL for a millenia?

Licensing benefits one club really - Wakey. Is it right that the needs of one club outweighs the needs of everyone else?

As a regular London fan I cannot wait for relegation to return. It will "Buck" the team up and see a return to proper games rather than the terdy friendly-like games near the season end

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We seem to have a lot of people who spend too little time in the real world. The general public want p&r, it's part of the culture in the UK, in the same way it isn't in Australia or USA. That's the same GP you have to attract to the product to replace the ones walking away.

Global sport changed with the income from Tv, compArisons before and after are silly, what is relevant is how we have done against our primary competitors, soccer and RU in that time- anyone thinking well needs their head examined, we have gone backward at pace, yet both have retained p&r

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We seem to have a lot of people who spend too little time in the real world. The general public want p&r, it's part of the culture in the UK, in the same way it isn't in Australia or USA. That's the same GP you have to attract to the product to replace the ones walking away.

Global sport changed with the income from Tv, compArisons before and after are silly, what is relevant is how we have done against our primary competitors, soccer and RU in that time- anyone thinking well needs their head examined, we have gone backward at pace, yet both have retained p&r

what he said :D

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I've been watching, listening and reading with both interest and shock at proposals and calls for the return of promotion/relegation. 

 

Bringing back p&r would be totally the wrong decision for Super League and a return to boom and bust where clubs move between the championship and SL without stability, at the time licensing was introduced there were tangible reasons why it was felt it had to be implemented, those being allowing clubs to develop and put the right structures in place without fear of relegation as time in the top flight would bring about a continued development of professionalism both on and off the field strengthening the competitiveness of the sport. 

Also we wanted clubs to have the time to develop young players without looking at the quick fixes of importing aussies and kiwis and the threat of relegation hanging over everyone's heads. 

 

In short I actually think the suggested proposals are a cop out and don't challenge head on the underlying and real issues of the sport, which is lack of sponsorship, adding value to the SL product, players moving to NRL/Union, media presence and the geographical spread of the sport at the top level so in my books the sport will continue to be underlings to the NRL and Union. 

 

We are pandering to the lowest common denominator and trying to cut a slice of the SL TV money pie to everyone who wants a piece of the action when the initial purpose of SL was elite competition with elite players and clubs.....this will not address the problems and predict that should these proposals go through we will be back discussing the same problems within the game in a few years time.

Absolutely spot on.

It's fans of your club I most feel for really. The sport just gave up lock, stock and barrel on expansion into new markets. You deserve much better, as do all of us.

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Where are we going to get all these new Fulltime players from for SL2 or will it be a mix of FT/PT players?

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