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The Daddy

Bringing back promotion and relegation will set the sport back in this country several years

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Around that time Leigh beat Barrow to win the second division, 7000 crowd and it was on BBC in the Monday sports news. Hope that helps. A few years later the Wigan promotion year got great coverage especially the Fulham games. We even had a programme featuring the play offs, RL RAW, and the early GF's to win promotion were live on terrestrial TV - forcing sky coverage due to the interest. I recall a fair bit of interest for Wakey v Cas not too long ago. I remember a Widnes v Leigh game drawing more fans than Quins v Wasps that boxing day.

Why is the salary cap not rising in line with inflation or TV money? Why is there no atmosphere in most SL games and championship ? Why do blue chip companies not want to sponsor the sport anymore ?

 

The obvious answer is because of RL fans, just to be clear of course. Its nothing to do with a rudderless sport, ashamed of its strengths and sinking in a cant do culture

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The fuss last weekend in Yorkshire soccer. Hull City promoted - all over Sky on Saturday afternoon. Huddersfield, Wednesday and Barnsley avoid relegation - all over Look North. Bradford City going to Wembley again - and one of their biggest crowds. P&R is a big draw in soccer. It could be again in RL. As has been said earlier, what we have at the moment, especially in the latter days of the season, for the bottom clubs in SL is a series of friendlies. Plus of course we have the practice of targetting certain games and not bothering about others - Hull KR are good enough to beat FC on Good Friday, but not good enough to put up a decent show against the Pies on Easter Monday - same goes for Widnes.

Yes it's difficult for a promoted club to come up to speed in SL. But then it's just as difficult for a championship club to maintain promotion form for 3- 4 seasons. Look at Fev. We've lost our coach. We may start to struggle and all the success in 2010,2011 & 2012 will be meaningless from the point of view of licensing.

Clearly we need to adopt the practice that created this excitement. How about reducing teams from 13 to 11, using a round ball, changing the goal posts....

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Clearly we need to adopt the practice that created this excitement. How about reducing teams from 13 to 11, using a round ball, changing the goal posts....

So if wigan,leeds and one or two other clubs dont want excitement why dont your clubs just go your own way and form a franchised league?

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People who believe SL signalled the demise of the game over here in the mid 90's are barking up the wrong tree.

We had a long debate on this and there's not many at all on here who do not realise that the SL deal had to be taken otherwise Union would have swamped us. Players gone, small club folding big clubs pondering switching to RU etc.

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The great relegation clashes of season after season are a myth, you get the odd one every so often, bring me a list of 5 years on a trot of great relegation clashes that produced massively above average crowds. You'll struggle to find two back to back seasons.

Wakefield and Cas was the real big one, attending it it served to underline to me that Wakefield could be a big club with the right ground, a competetive team and sound finances.

I love the big relegation clashes but in all the time I've watched RL it mainly either ends up with certain clubs losing so much we know who has gone early and their crowds actually bomb, or it comes to a crucial game when two threatened clubs have a head to head. I particularly recall Widnes.v.Cas and Salford.v.HKR. The latter had 2,000 fans over the average mainly from Rovers.

There no comparison with soccer where half a dizen clubs are threatened week after week.

P & R won't revitalise anything, but it won't harm as long as the bottom SL clubs are uncompetitive. This debate won't be won as those with the self interest are heavily buoyed by the RFL and the clubs supposedly being now heavily in favour of P & R via the proposed new set up where four up and four down can be dreamed of but in reality the games will be pro's.v.semi pro's.

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what on earth makes some people think that the UK with a smaller player base, profile and income to the NRL can sustain 20+ top line professional clubs when the Aussies can only justify 15 themselves?

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the first what?

of yourlist of two

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Lobbys post is correct,What mustn't be allowed to happen is what you are suggesting will happen .

of course it will happen, all kinds of dodgy passports will be presented to the rfl to register as many antipodeans as possible, like i said before in another thread widnes made 5 close season signings including 2 marquee signings and all of them were british.

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of course it will happen, all kinds of dodgy passports will be presented to the rfl to register as many antipodeans as possible, like i said before in another thread widnes made 5 close season signings including 2 marquee signings and all of them were british.

They don't have to be dodgy many people quite legitimately qualify: it's the law and is far more important than the needs and desires of a game

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of course it will happen, all kinds of dodgy passports will be presented to the rfl to register as many antipodeans as possible, like i said before in another thread widnes made 5 close season signings including 2 marquee signings and all of them were british.

 

Is it just me that smiles/laughs when when Widnes fans refer to Kevin Brown as a big signing?

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I'm shocked anyone really believes that P&R will do anything other than harm RL in the UK. No surprises the only morons pushing that barrow are self-interested parties who cannot see past the end of their own nose.

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I'm shocked anyone really believes that P&R will do anything other than harm RL in the UK. No surprises the only morons pushing that barrow are self-interested parties who cannot see past the end of their own nose.

And the ones against it are?

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In 1977 how much time did the BBC give to the winners of the second division in RL, how much was in the newspapers, you seem to think a minor club in a minor sport winning a minor trophy was backpage news. It wasn't.

 

Our game has always been starve of publicity, it seemed like we had a lot of 'national' news in the past because the papers had Northern editions, those articles didn't appear all over the country, there is another myth that we had national recognition because the Daily Mirror gave us a lot of space, it gave us a lot of space in the NOrther edition, the other editions had nothing.

 

The death knell for RL as a headline backpage sport wasn't SL it was the closure of the local press offices which happened 10 years or more before.

 

You can have the most exciting P&R competition you want, it won't make one jot of difference to the amount of coverage.

 

Newspapers are yesterdays medium. The poster was mentioning the coverage of the soccer promotion/relegation clashes on Sky Sports.

 

Since Sky cover RL and relegated/promoted teams would be either leaving or joining their coverage, it would be in their interest to A) cover the p and r news for their viewers and B) hype up any relegation battles they might be covering on their slate of televised games.

 

The media landscape is vastly changed since 1977. I don't think that's a relevant comparison.

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what on earth makes some people think that the UK with a smaller player base, profile and income to the NRL can sustain 20+ top line professional clubs when the Aussies can only justify 15 themselves?

 

I don;t know all that much about Aussie RL but I thought they had such a huge reservoir of junior talent that they could fill any number of teams. If the oft repeated mantra that the Aussies could field three different international teams any one of which could win the world cup then I am sure they could find the players for an expanded NRL. 

 

It seems to me that, despite the huge TV contracts, the existing clubs in the NRL, like the top SL clubs, are so greedy that they don't want to split the pie more ways and are thus resistant to to expansion even though they have persons wishing to bankroll new teams in various cities.

 

If they sit on their asses and fail to expand they will leave the new areas to the AFL and soccer, neither of which will spurn the opportunity. The NRL are making a serious mistake in not expanding in my opinion. I hope it dos't come back to haunt them.

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And the ones against it are?

 

 Morons who can;t see beyond the end of their nose.

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I've been watching, listening and reading with both interest and shock at proposals and calls for the return of promotion/relegation. 

 

Bringing back p&r would be totally the wrong decision for Super League and a return to boom and bust where clubs move between the championship and SL without stability, at the time licensing was introduced there were tangible reasons why it was felt it had to be implemented, those being allowing clubs to develop and put the right structures in place without fear of relegation as time in the top flight would bring about a continued development of professionalism both on and off the field strengthening the competitiveness of the sport. 

Also we wanted clubs to have the time to develop young players without looking at the quick fixes of importing aussies and kiwis and the threat of relegation hanging over everyone's heads. 

 

In short I actually think the suggested proposals are a cop out and don't challenge head on the underlying and real issues of the sport, which is lack of sponsorship, adding value to the SL product, players moving to NRL/Union, media presence and the geographical spread of the sport at the top level so in my books the sport will continue to be underlings to the NRL and Union. 

 

We are pandering to the lowest common denominator and trying to cut a slice of the SL TV money pie to everyone who wants a piece of the action when the initial purpose of SL was elite competition with elite players and clubs.....this will not address the problems and predict that should these proposals go through we will be back discussing the same problems within the game in a few years time.

The competition has gone stagnant, even now we are looking at teams already having nothing to play for in the league & since 1996 we've only had 4 different winners who are now in 1st, 3rd, 5th & 8th places, something needs doing and I don't mind if they nick the idea BARLA has muted if/when they introduce a new National league which will is designed to allow teams to drift back to a traditional season.

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I've been watching, listening and reading with both interest and shock at proposals and calls for the return of promotion/relegation. 

 

Bringing back p&r would be totally the wrong decision for Super League and a return to boom and bust where clubs move between the championship and SL without stability, at the time licensing was introduced there were tangible reasons why it was felt it had to be implemented, those being allowing clubs to develop and put the right structures in place without fear of relegation as time in the top flight would bring about a continued development of professionalism both on and off the field strengthening the competitiveness of the sport. 

Also we wanted clubs to have the time to develop young players without looking at the quick fixes of importing aussies and kiwis and the threat of relegation hanging over everyone's heads. 

 

In short I actually think the suggested proposals are a cop out and don't challenge head on the underlying and real issues of the sport, which is lack of sponsorship, adding value to the SL product, players moving to NRL/Union, media presence and the geographical spread of the sport at the top level so in my books the sport will continue to be underlings to the NRL and Union. 

 

We are pandering to the lowest common denominator and trying to cut a slice of the SL TV money pie to everyone who wants a piece of the action when the initial purpose of SL was elite competition with elite players and clubs.....this will not address the problems and predict that should these proposals go through we will be back discussing the same problems within the game in a few years time.

Completely disagree !!!!

For me and thousands of others who love the game, this is the best news for many many years !

The game is fast becoming stale, the Championships are dying with only 4 clubs capable of pulling in crowds of over a thousand, there is NOTHING to play for year in year out, licensing has failed in almost every aspect apart from a few nice stadiums and the rise of Widnes.

For me this change can't come quick enough and I am already looking forward to an exciting battle to avoid the bottom two of SL next year !!!!

BRING IT ON !!!!!!

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My guess is that the top clubs (financially) wouldn't mind this change as it will weaken the bottom third/half of Supeleague, and it will pave the way for a much reduced number of clubs in the competition in the future and an EVEN greater share of the Sky money for them.

 

My instinct remains that this is a bargaining tool, and opening gambit, and that something less silly will come along and be accepted that wouldn't have been accepted had it been leaked/suggested in the first instance.

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Failure is what happens when you can't win. It's when you can't sustain failure then you need to redress the system and you only redress the system if failures cannot be replaced.

 

It has never been the case that's its the same old clubs that go bust and re-group so what licencing has done is forced clubs who fail unsustainably to do so on an epic scale rather than seeing clubs demoted and replaced by a fresh perspective and demographic.

 

There are some very compelling arguments that fear of failure, followed by action to prop up failed enterprises actually devalues the system.

 

This is likely what's happening in RL in this country right now. It's switches people off.  Read Roberto Ungers theories for more insight.

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since 1996 we've only had 4 different winners who are now in 1st, 3rd, 5th & 8th places

Surely this means we have other teams pushing to win

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Is it just me that smiles/laughs when when Widnes fans refer to Kevin Brown as a big signing?

it wasn't us who did all the spouting about him signing, it was the media who called him a major coup for the chemics.

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alex murphy, jim mills, martin offiah, jonathon davies, paul newlove, ellery hanley, need i really go on???

 

I was in the South at that time.  In the 80's I had never heard of Alex Murphy, Jim Mills or Paul Newlove.

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it wasn't us who did all the spouting about him signing, it was the media who called him a major coup for the chemics.

 

 

of course it will happen, all kinds of dodgy passports will be presented to the rfl to register as many antipodeans as possible, like i said before in another thread widnes made 5 close season signings including 2 marquee signings and all of them were british.

 

 

So who were you referring to as the two marquee signings in the quote above then? 

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kevin brown and gareth hock, which marquee signings did your club make????

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I was in the South at that time.  In the 80's I had never heard of Alex Murphy, Jim Mills or Paul Newlove.

Yep - it's laughable that anybody could suggest that Paul Newlove was a well-known name in sport.

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