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Larry the Leit

Marwan Koukash - Set to ignore the salary cap!

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The fact that Hudgell has thrown money at HKR instead of building a solid base/squad and has finished consistently in the bottom half is more about poor business practice (signing ###### players and coaches) than it is about anything else. Andrew Glover hasn't spent any money at Wakefield, but yet has grown the crowds and hence the club's income significantly. Sport and business are mixed intrinsically, but brainpower is still often more than a match of cash and that's a kind of sporting success that I like.

How would Andrew Glover have got on with Wakefield Trinity if there had been a Wakefield FC just across the Calder attracting 11,000 fans??

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There was a clear sporting route, before superleague. The passage of time has done what many predicted that it would do; it's widened the gap to a chasm. Much as I've always been against licensing, I do consider that the work and effort that some clubs have gone to to comply with licensing should not be stamped down and replaced by this new nonsense proposal

The SKY money paid to SL and not CC widened the chasm, the small clubs lucky to be in SL could not compete whilst big clubs unlucky to be on a down at the time the cut was made, made it back to the big time at the small clubs expense and now that's that. A gulf of gulf of Mexico proportions.

No sporting route at all now. Only money will bridge the gap.

As for all the work clubs have gone to to comply with licensing, what I find ridiculous is that the RFL dangle this stupid carrot which the poor CC clubs will cheerfully chase as long as they are not asked to answer the big question.....

SL needs a £6,000,000 turnover, SKY and increased crowds will give a CC club £2,000,000 more....

So where are the other £millions coming from?

Nowhere as far as Eagles and Leigh are concerned.

Mr. Nahaboo at Fev, Mr. Abbott at Halifax - allegedly.

The sporting route is dead IMHO of course.....

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How would Andrew Glover have got on with Wakefield Trinity if there had been a Wakefield FC just across the Calder attracting 11,000 fans??

Just to be clear, in this scenario would Wakefield have also increased its population by about 250%?

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How would Andrew Glover have got on with Wakefield Trinity if there had been a Wakefield FC just across the Calder attracting 11,000 fans??

 

I don't know.  I'm also not convinced that you have any idea where the river calder is.

 

Such is life.

 

Just to be clear, in this scenario would Wakefield have also increased its population by about 250%?

 

See above.

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Just to be clear, in this scenario would Wakefield have also increased its population by about 250%?

The point is if you have not got it clear is that it's hard to revive a business like HKR when you have direct competition over the river.

When there is no direct competition in the city you have an advantage.

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I'm also not convinced that you have any idea where the river calder is.

I'm not convinced you have the wherewithall to debate the issue.

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I'm not convinced you have the wherewithall to debate the issue.

 

That's pretty rich.  From what I've seen of your own debating tactics it appears that your opinions vary in the wind, and serve only to needlessly prolong threads unnecessarily by raking up discredited pieces of argument so that we can "go round again" and by blindly ignoring anything that either disagrees with whatever crusade you happen to be on or accepting that on some issues other people may be far better informed than you are.

 

In relation to the hypothetical issue you raise, do you know what?  I think you may are right, I'm not convinced that I have the wherewithal to debate the intricacies of what Wakefield Trinity's position would be like if there was a soccer club "at the other side of the Calder".  The FACT is that there isn't a soccer club matching your scenario, and there hasn't been in the 140 years or so since Trinity were formed, so it's a pointless waste of energy.

 

However, according to you we already have Featherstone and Castleford to "compete" with for fans (which except for within a few frontier villages we do not), and since you can't get to grips with the counter arguments on that, I see no reason to waste energy debating with you what would happen if Manchester United relocated Old Trafford brick by brick to Horbury Junction or St Johns square.

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Some perspective on the current salary cap level in RL.

 

 

The Yorkshire Post this morning has a report on Saturday's RU Championship play off match between Newcastle Falcons and Leeds Carnegie. So second tier of English club RU in a competition which currently has no title sponsor.

 

According to the YP, Newcastle's playing budget for the season now closing was £4m and Leeds Carnegie's was £2m. In the article Hetherington does mention the 'mania' in rugby union for throwing cash around at players but nonetheless he indicates that the Carnegie budget will be the same for next season.

 

Now I know that RU clubs need bigger squads, but I am astounded that clubs in the second tier of English RU can have bigger playing budgets than SL, and that Carnegie can, that is are allowed to and can afford to, spend more than the reigning SL Champions. 

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That's pretty rich.

So is telling me I have no idea where the River Calder is.

We can exchange views or we can exchange derogatory remarks.

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Some perspective on the current salary cap level in RL.

According to the YP, Newcastle's playing budget for the season now closing was £4m and Leeds Carnegie's was £2m.I am astounded that clubs in the second tier of English RU can have bigger playing budgets than SL, and that Carnegie can, that is are allowed to and can afford to, spend more than the reigning SL Champions.

Well I don't know who bankrolls Newcastle (nor do I know where the river Calder is) but Paul Caddick may bankroll Leeds Carnegie. That these people spend millions in a second tier may be because the first tier from top to bottom is already oversubscribed by benevolent chairmen.

In our game the benevolent chairmen stop half way down Superleague.It's probably proportionately correct that a national game can throw up so many more players to buy and chairmen to buy them.

An M62 league may throw up much less resource, don't you think??.

This is Just IMHO and if the wind changes I'll let you know what I think then!

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Now I know that RU clubs need bigger squads, but I am astounded that clubs in the second tier of English RU can have bigger playing budgets than SL, and that Carnegie can, that is are allowed to and can afford to, spend more than the reigning SL Champions. 

 

I'm not sure that they can afford to, where does the money come from?  It's certainly not from the gates.

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I'm not sure that they can afford to, where does the money come from?  It's certainly not from the gates.

I understand Paul Caddick is one of the richest men in sport, he is Leeds carnegie's chairman.

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I'm not sure that they can afford to, where does the money come from?  It's certainly not from the gates.

 

There is a local moneyman at Newcastle and Caddick obviously puts money into Carnegie.

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Some perspective on the current salary cap level in RL.

 

 

The Yorkshire Post this morning has a report on Saturday's RU Championship play off match between Newcastle Falcons and Leeds Carnegie. So second tier of English club RU in a competition which currently has no title sponsor.

 

According to the YP, Newcastle's playing budget for the season now closing was £4m and Leeds Carnegie's was £2m. In the article Hetherington does mention the 'mania' in rugby union for throwing cash around at players but nonetheless he indicates that the Carnegie budget will be the same for next season.

 

Now I know that RU clubs need bigger squads, but I am astounded that clubs in the second tier of English RU can have bigger playing budgets than SL, and that Carnegie can, that is are allowed to and can afford to, spend more than the reigning SL Champions. 

Given the rate at which clubs go bust in rugby union the perspective I'm getting is that we'd do well to avoid such wreckless short-termism.

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Surely it's no coincedence in that nearly all fully professional British sports teams are either bank rolled by wealthy individuals or else not competitive?

If anything these numbers highlight exactly why SLE can't increase the cap, unless more clubs are propped up by weathly owners?

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If anything these numbers highlight exactly why SLE can't increase the cap, unless more clubs are propped up by weathly owners?

Not exactly.

Superleague has several wealthy owners who have stated they don't want to put any more money in.

Also several wealthyb owners who have stated their clubs should run without their money.

I can't think of many owners who just want to throw millions around......

Well maybe mr. Koukash and mr. Nahaboo...maybe....

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Does the salary cap include bonuses as well? Could you possibly give someone a lower salary but pay them a huge win bonus or do the bonuses have to be in the salary cap?

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Does the salary cap include bonuses as well? Could you possibly give someone a lower salary but pay them a huge win bonus or do the bonuses have to be in the salary cap?

It's all in here: http://www.therfl.co.uk/the-rfl/rules/interactive_operational_rules?section=E1

 

Makes interesting reading. For example, any player that has played at the same club for 10 years only has half their salary count towards the cap (up to a maximum of £50,000)

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Thanks for the link I will read that. I didn't realise that, I presume Leeds who have had Burrow, Sinfield and McGuire for 10 years must save a lot of money on the cap.

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Thanks for the link I will read that. I didn't realise that, I presume Leeds who have had Burrow, Sinfield and McGuire for 10 years must save a lot of money on the cap.

Even with 3 players, the maximum is £50k, which I imagine we hit.

 

I think I worked it out a while ago that Leeds get an extra £150,000* on the cap with all the exemptions

 

 

*Number plucked out of the air from my hazy memory

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Given the rate at which clubs go bust in rugby union the perspective I'm getting is that we'd do well to avoid such wreckless short-termism.

 

You give the impression that clubs in English RU going bust is a big problem. I know Wasps were in bother last year and it looks like London Welsh could be after their backer has pulled out but I can't think of any others in the top two competitions in recent times. So no more really than in RL.

 

I just find it amazing that Championship RU appears to have a higher cap than Superleague.

 

You can understand Koukash's issue, that the current cap levels will be placing some major limits on who he can recruit, even though money is no issue for the club. I presume he got involved with Salford to win things, generally you need the best to win trophies and more often than not the best cost money. It could be argued the current low cap level is a big disincentive for people from outside the sport to invest their money in RL as it places a major restriction on the assembly of a competitive team of top talent in the short term. Which is probably what is needed at Salford.

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You give the impression that clubs in English RU going bust is a big problem. I know Wasps were in bother last year and it looks like London Welsh could be after their backer has pulled out but I can't think of any others in the top two competitions in recent times. So no more really than in RL.

 

I just find it amazing that Championship RU appears to have a higher cap than Superleague.

 

You can understand Koukash's issue, that the current cap levels will be placing some major limits on who he can recruit, even though money is no issue for the club. I presume he got involved with Salford to win things, generally you need the best to win trophies and more often than not the best cost money. It could be argued the current low cap level is a big disincentive for people from outside the sport to invest their money in RL as it places a major restriction on the assembly of a competitive team of top talent in the short term. Which is probably what is needed at Salford.

The simple fact is that Rugby League has a cap that matches it's levels of income. Rugby Union has one that matches it's level of income.

 

The difference in turnover between RU clubs and RL clubs is staggering, especially when you look at the crowds.

 

As long as Union fills massive stadiums in London, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Dublin and Paris on a regular basis, and we struggle to fill Wigan, Hull, Huddersfield and Leigh, then they will always be richer.

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