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joe elliot

No red card for punching

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If you want to watch a fight go and watch ... I don't know ... a fight.

The NRL might not be throwing red cards around for fighting but I can't actually remember the last time I saw a player in Australia be stupid enough to start a proper bout of biff. (Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I haven't seen it recently).

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 Spot on, Ablett knees him in the head on at least two occasions during the tackle.

 

Very similar to the Farrell/Poore incident in many respects.  I thought Farrell pushed things a good deal further than Ablett, but there was definite and easily visible physical provocation.  Better refereeing could have dealt with both issues before they escalated.

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I think where a couple of players lose their head and get a bit over-excited then a yellow card is fair enough. This is normally what happens in Origin. Wardle wasn't in a face to face fight, he just attacked Ablett (who is one of the dirtiest players in SL) but neither of the Leeds players punched back. Why should they have to take this thuggish behaviour?

 

Incidentally, the last time I saw a nasty fight in Origin, the player was in fact sent off - Brett White 2009.

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The NRL were pretty quick to outlaw the shoulder charge in favour or safety over entertainment. So I don't buy into the 'if the Aussies aren't doing it' train of thought.

I reckon they had it right to go for safety over violence with the shoulder charge and that a Red for punching is in the same vein. The game doesn't need excessive violence and wilful damage of players, outside the laws of the game, to be entertaining. You shouldn't need to advertise players trying knock each other out to sell the sport, that's what boxing did and it has suffered a slow burning death from mainstream media because of it.

 

And players simply need to get over the niggle and play on, otherwise teams will exploit your short fuse as a weakness and put you off your game time after time.

Wait for the chance and get your own back. Niggle is a skill like many others in the game. It doesn't have to be dirty, but it can be mighty effective if done well.

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If you want to watch a fight go and watch ... I don't know ... a fight.

The NRL might not be throwing red cards around for fighting but I can't actually remember the last time I saw a player in Australia be stupid enough to start a proper bout of biff. (Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I haven't seen it recently).

You aint been watching this weekend then

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Wardle deserved his red card, I've no complaints about that really, as soon as it happened I knew it would be a sending off

That said Ablett did knee him and niggle him and the touch judge missed it utterly and the penalty should have gone to the giants before Wardle took matters into his own fists

Additionally in the context of this season McGuire should have walked for leaping onto Crabtrees throat in the first half, Kyle L should have walked for clothes lining Robinson later on (given Robinson was sent off v Catalans for standing in the way of a dummy runner who then went down like a dead swan)

McGuire should have been binned for his attack on Cudjoe as well

But hey, I'll take the win

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Well I watched it, twice in fact, and I didn't see any knees going in. I did see Ablett butt his head into Wardle's chest as he played the ball. There was then an exchange of views and some pushing, concluding with Wardle throwing some punches.

 

I don't think Wardle has any grounds for complaint. He lost his discipline and he should not have. Leeds were clearly trying to niggle Huddersfield and they only succeeded with this one incident. FWIW, I think Ablett should have seen yellow for the provocation. (Head butting is just as illegal as punching, but it wasn't head to head.)

 

The kneeing wasn't visible until they replayed it on the red button as part of the post-match discussion panel. Live it looked fine, and they didn't replay it live either.

 

It was similar to Radford - Bailey the other year, where Bailey elbowed him in the head repeatedly, watching it live it looked fine, but when replayed you can see why Radford reacted. Well it was like that, apart from there was absolutely no doubt as to the fact Ablett was kneeing Wardle in his face intentionally, he did it three times too.

 

Everyone who caught the after match stuff on 301 will concur with what I'm saying. Ablett should be suspended if you ask me, brought the game into disrepute. Kneeing people like that is never on, let alone 3 times in a row.

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If you want to watch a fight go and watch ... I don't know ... a fight.

The NRL might not be throwing red cards around for fighting but I can't actually remember the last time I saw a player in Australia be stupid enough to start a proper bout of biff. (Not saying it doesn't happen, just that I haven't seen it recently).

 

Burgess - Foran the other day, no send off. Mcguire and Allgood at the weekend, no send off.

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I'd would have the rule:

Red- A punch which is on an individual who is in no state or position to defend themselves.

Yellow - An unprovoked punch in a game which isn't heated at all.

Yellow - A second directly provoked punch in a match.

Penalty - Any directly provoked first punch.

Penalty - A unprovoked punch in a heated game.

A directly provoked punch is one which was led from the opposition provoking you from any method from verbal actions to physical.

I've watched the game since I was very young. I've always enjoyed a bit of a bust up in a game. Do I want to do it myself? No. I understand why it happens I feel most do. I don't enjoy fighting or watching it, I can't watch boxing for more than 2 rounds without getting bored. IMO it doesn't put the sport in a bad light, people understand why it happens.

Sending people off for punching won't get it out of our game. People don't think of the consequences when they do it. They do it because its part of our DNA.

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I think where a couple of players lose their head and get a bit over-excited then a yellow card is fair enough. This is normally what happens in Origin. Wardle wasn't in a face to face fight, he just attacked Ablett (who is one of the dirtiest players in SL) but neither of the Leeds players punched back. Why should they have to take this thuggish behaviour?

 

Incidentally, the last time I saw a nasty fight in Origin, the player was in fact sent off - Brett White 2009.

 

Brett White stayed on the field, he wasn't even sin binned for the fight with White and nor should he have been. It was Waterhouse who was sent from the field for coming 3rd man in.

 

And that incident is a stretch because most people agree Waterhouse didn't deserve sending, that decision was daft. It was a token effort from the referee in the hopes of cooling down the Queensland team... which didn't even work. The refs lost control of the game, they were intimidated and started marching people left, right and centre. If they'd showed some composure two more fights might not have happened.

 

And there's been fights just as bad if not worse since. Jennings ran in what, 30 metres off his wing? Superman punched a bloke in the head and only got a sin bin, which most people were outraged over and thought as excessive! what about LOD dropping a player on his head, then getting up and headbutting and punching Dave Taylor a few times? Much worse than what Brett White did, don't even think he got a sin bin. Every year there's a fight equivelant to the one we saw on the weekend in origin and they get on with it. This week there was an almost replica incident with the Broncos McGuire against one of the Eels player, no red card.

 

 

The NRL were pretty quick to outlaw the shoulder charge in favour or safety over entertainment. So I don't buy into the 'if the Aussies aren't doing it' train of thought.

I reckon they had it right to go for safety over violence with the shoulder charge and that a Red for punching is in the same vein. The game doesn't need excessive violence and wilful damage of players, outside the laws of the game, to be entertaining. You shouldn't need to advertise players trying knock each other out to sell the sport, that's what boxing did and it has suffered a slow burning death from mainstream media because of it.

 

And players simply need to get over the niggle and play on, otherwise teams will exploit your short fuse as a weakness and put you off your game time after time.

Wait for the chance and get your own back. Niggle is a skill like many others in the game. It doesn't have to be dirty, but it can be mighty effective if done well.

 

Boxing has suffered a slow burning death because it's a ###### product not worth watching. You don't need the thumbs up from rags and mummys to have a successfull sport, you only have to look at the rise and rise and rise and rise of MMA to see that.

 

The point is there's no evidence that a bit of biff hurts the sport, none what soever. All the evidence runs contrary to it.

 

If people personally don't like it, that's a fair opinion to have. If you have children and it turns you off introducing them to the sport, that's just as valid. It's completely bogus however to say it hurts the game. That's not true and anyone saying so is discrediting themselves.

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You go online and search rugby for this months results and what's the most popular video? The Burgess fight with Matai and this fight from yesterday in rugby

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2WWV-gfpZ4

 

If there's a moral of ethical argument to be made against rugby then by all means, it should be made and had. But it's dishonesty of the highest order to present fighting as something that turns people away from the game and hinders popularity. Non-fans love nothing more than seeing that side of the game and the viewing figures, on television or online, prove it.

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This whole area is a can of worms. Maguire threw a similar amount of punches 2 mins earlier and his were pretty ineffective similar to Wardle's. I accepted Wardle's offence was slightly worse but when is a punch enough to get you sent off and when isn't it????????

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This whole area is a can of worms. Maguire threw a similar amount of punches 2 mins earlier and his were pretty ineffective similar to Wardle's. I accepted Wardle's offence was slightly worse but when is a punch enough to get you sent off and when isn't it????????

i think there were some differences. Firstly the ref saw the provocation from Cudjoe, secondly Cudjoe also threw a half decent punch.

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Fair points but does the Cudjoe punch diminish the Maguire punches? Like I say it is a minefield.

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The kneeing wasn't visible until they replayed it on the red button as part of the post-match discussion panel. Live it looked fine, and they didn't replay it live either.

 

It was similar to Radford - Bailey the other year, where Bailey elbowed him in the head repeatedly, watching it live it looked fine, but when replayed you can see why Radford reacted. Well it was like that, apart from there was absolutely no doubt as to the fact Ablett was kneeing Wardle in his face intentionally, he did it three times too.

 

Everyone who caught the after match stuff on 301 will concur with what I'm saying. Ablett should be suspended if you ask me, brought the game into disrepute. Kneeing people like that is never on, let alone 3 times in a row.

 

Thanks Chris. I didn't watch it on the red button, I replayed it on iPlayer and I couldn't see the kneeing, but I am happy to take your word for it. He definitely stuck his head forcefully into Wardle's chest as he played the ball (a tactic I've seen a number of players use) and he was obviously trying get a reaction and throw Hudds off their game. He almost succeeded. I hope it does get picked up by the review committee, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Fair points but does the Cudjoe punch diminish the Maguire punches? Like I say it is a minefield.

Not necessarily, but I think it does make it different to one player punching another player in the head 5 times with no retaliation. I think the fact that as far as the officials were concerned there was no serious provocation made it a serious offence. I didn't watch the red button show, so I haven't seen what Ablett did wrong either although it does sound like he did something from comments here.

 

One final point - players getting sent off for punching is not new in this country. I remember i the early-mid 90's at a game at Wheldon Road where Bruce McGuire 'punched' Tawera Nikau. I highlighted the word punched as he skimmed Nikau's chin. Nikau went down like a sack of spuds to get the player sent off and was succesful in this. McGuire was sent off.

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Thanks Chris. I didn't watch it on the red button, I replayed it on iPlayer and I couldn't see the kneeing, but I am happy to take your word for it. He definitely stuck his head forcefully into Wardle's chest as he played the ball (a tactic I've seen a number of players use) and he was obviously trying get a reaction and throw Hudds off their game. He almost succeeded. I hope it does get picked up by the review committee, but I'm not holding my breath.

It was a good pick up by the lads in the BBC studio. Unfortunately you can't get the post-match stuff on iPlayer (I don't think)

 

I've got a sharp eye and usually pick up on niggle and I didn't even notice it until after the game. I'd have thought the ref would have spotted it though because it was pretty obvious stuff judging by the replay.

 

Might show up on Youtube this week, who knows.

 

It is sort of funny that you can get punished more severely for knowing how to throw a punch, or throwing a couple. Reminds me of Manu Tuilagi in union who got banned for about half a year - I exagerate - for throwing a massive haymaker that was caught on super slow motion

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Reminds me of Manu Tuilagi in union who got banned for about half a year - I exagerate - for throwing a massive haymaker that was caught on super slow motion

On CAshton.

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I'd would have the rule:

Red- A punch which is on an individual who is in no state or position to defend themselves.

Yellow - An unprovoked punch in a game which isn't heated at all.

Yellow - A second directly provoked punch in a match.

Penalty - Any directly provoked first punch.

Penalty - A unprovoked punch in a heated game.

A directly provoked punch is one which was led from the opposition provoking you from any method from verbal actions to physical.

I've watched the game since I was very young. I've always enjoyed a bit of a bust up in a game. Do I want to do it myself? No. I understand why it happens I feel most do. I don't enjoy fighting or watching it, I can't watch boxing for more than 2 rounds without getting bored. IMO it doesn't put the sport in a bad light, people understand why it happens.

Sending people off for punching won't get it out of our game. People don't think of the consequences when they do it. They do it because its part of our DNA.

I quite like this as an approach. No-one wants to see thuggery or mindless violence, but a good punch-up definitely adds to the spectacle. Who can say they didn't enjoy the Farrell/Scully 'sh***house' scrap, or JP dishing out retribution to Willie Mason, or the titanic Scully/McCracken bout? These are among some of my fondest RL viewing moments.

 

And kids love that sort of almost cartoon-like 'safe' type of fighting anyway - I'd expect that they'd be much more likely to enjoy it than be upset by it.

 

So by all means clamp down on the cynical pre-meditated thuggery (of which Ablett is, ironically, one of the prime exponents), but show a bit more understanding for the 'crime passionelle' of the heat-of-the-moment bit of fisticuffs.

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Wardle deserved to walk imo - If you can't sit someone on their back-side after 4 or 5 punches then you shouldn't throw em!  B)

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Just watched it back, Ablett didn't want any of it one he realised Wardle want going to back down, once Delaney knocked Wardle to the floor and a few if the Leeds player came along he started posturing. No doubt Bailey will have been at the back pulling one of the smaller players away.

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Somebody has suggested a yellow card for an unprovoked punch.  Staggering.

 

Man's game, y'see.  Can't expect men to play with skill and determination when there's the opportunity to hit someone who isn't looking.

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Just watched it back, Ablett didn't want any of it one he realised Wardle want going to back down, once Delaney knocked Wardle to the floor and a few if the Leeds player came along he started posturing. No doubt Bailey will have been at the back pulling one of the smaller players away.

easy to type that,keep going,keyboard warrior.

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