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Super League League Reconstruction

Super League Format   129 members have voted

  1. 1. Which opition/format for Super league do you want from 2015 onwards?

    • Option 1 - Super League reverts to a 12-team competition (from 14) and a 10 or 12-team Championship, with one club promoted and relegated each year.
      48
    • Option 2 - A two division Super League with each division comprising of 10 teams.
      19
    • Opition 3 - Two divisions of 12 in Super League with teams playing each other one to provide 11 fixtures before spliting into 3 groups of 8 in mi-season then playing each other home & away to provide 14 more Matches.
      62

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442 posts in this topic

Are they though? Or are they just panicking because certain people keep telling them that RL is in trouble? Certain people that have more sway than the average fan that is.

Super league boring, fans are dwindling.

Funny that fev are only one of 4 teams who who's attendances have improved.

Game needs a change. The should force through option 3 like they did super league all those yeas ago

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Super league boring, fans are dwindling.

Its boring because you say so? Right

Fans dwindling? If its so boring why did attendances manage to improve over the years?

Its strange how critics are suddenly ignoring all the progress made in recent times like improved crowds and viewing figures yet at the first sign of a blip jump on it to use it as an illustration that its rubbish anyway.

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From my own point of view all I want for Fev is the opportunity to get to the top level of the sport via performance on the pitch which in my opinion is how it should be done. If the finance and cap situation can be sorted for the middle tier then I don't see why Rovers or any other Championship club cannot compete with the lower end SL clubs and indeed overtake them. To me that's an exciting prospect.

I see what you're saying about the CC clubs who have worked so hard and maybe there's a place awaiting Fev right now in the current SL format, but my prime concern is what's best for the good of the game and I don't believe this licensing system is. The sport has become stale and option three seems to provide excitement and intensity for all clubs, all season long.

This is where you and I differ. Your aim seems to be to have teams enter SL and compete with the teams at the bottom of that competition.

 

My aim is to create a genuinely elite top-flight competition. I want a league where every team can compete with one another, that on any given day can win games and even win championships. That's the only way RL is going to be able to progress and keep up with the Aussies (and other sports) over the next ten-twenty years. That's the only way we're going to be able to attract top-end sponsorship and broadcasting deals. That's the only way we're going to attract the media attention we deserve. And if we do it properly then we'll be able to generate enough resources (players, finances, sponsors, etc, etc) to increase the number of teams in that top-flight competition. But it has to happen in that order.

 

And I say all of this as a fan of a club (London Broncos) who are so horrendously run that I can find very little reason to justify including them in a 12 team competition.

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From my own point of view all I want for Fev is the opportunity to get to the top level of the sport via performance on the pitch which in my opinion is how it should be done. If the finance and cap situation can be sorted for the middle tier then I don't see why Rovers or any other Championship club cannot compete with the lower end SL clubs and indeed overtake them. To me that's an exciting prospect.

I see what you're saying about the CC clubs who have worked so hard and maybe there's a place awaiting Fev right now in the current SL format, but my prime concern is what's best for the good of the game and I don't believe this licensing system is. The sport has become stale and option three seems to provide excitement and intensity for all clubs, all season long.

 

This won't give Featherstone anything like that opportunity.  The top segment will have grown away from the watered down contrived second tier in the time it would take Rovers or any current championship club to grow into topping that league.

 

In truth I think the attitude of many Featherstone fans to this proposal betrays their true belief about their club.  It cannot compete with the top clubs, so by getting to compete against the middle ground they're happy and would be appeased.  When the calls come for the funding of those finishing towards the bottom of the superleague are heard, we'll have what in effect?  A bigger championship and fewer clubs in the real superleague.

 

14 teams, with P&R. Bring it on.

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Where would they be had they not been promoted?

Scrubbing around the top half of CC on 1500-2000 crowds like fev and Fax I suppose....

Where will they be if they get relegated next year?

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Are they though? Or are they just panicking because certain people keep telling them that RL is in trouble? Certain people that have more sway than the average fan that is.

The accountants for instance.

Maybe the accountants reports have led to SL chairmen "standing down" and maybe the accountants reports can't square a CC clubs finances stretching to a £6,000,000 turnover SKY money or not.

For me the financial gulf is no longer between clubs 14 (bottom of SL)and 15 (top of CC).

More like between clubs 8 and 9....

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Scrubbing around the top half of CC on 1500-2000 crowds like fev and Fax I suppose....

Where will they be if they get relegated next year?

Yes, so them being promoted was a good thing then. If they get relegated they will be in a far better position from which to build.

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the attitude of many of the fev fans is they want their chance at returning to the top , agreed at the mo we are far away from the elite few in the S/L but so are the bottom teams in the S/L .

they have had years to try and get there whilst we have faced a closed shop, the new proposals give us an opportunity to compete against the bottom of the S/L and if successful then move to the next level , given an even playing field there is no reason why we cant do it but at the very least we ,along with 3 or 4 others in the championship deserve the chance or the hope of one day getting there

option 3 gives us that and surely when the second part kicks in the 2nd tier will be very competative and that can only be a good thing for the game . investors are starting to come forward into the less fashionable teams (us and salford) and they have to be given hope that their cash will result in a shot of getting up there with the big boys , again has to be good for the game that they are coming forward

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Go on DSK, lay the teams on me. I am interested.

Bradford

Bristol *

Calder (Wakefield, Castleford & Featherstone)

Catalan

Cheshire (Warrington & Widnes)

Cumbria (Barrow, Whitehaven & Workington, likely playing out of Carlisle)

Edinburgh *

Huddersfield/Halifax

Kingston-upon-Hull (Hull KR & Hull FC)

Leeds

London Broncos

London Skolars *

Salford

St Helens

Toulouse *

Wigan

* = Future expansion team to join only in, say, 2016

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Huddersfield/Halifax isn't either/or, btw. Club serves both cities, both names in the title.

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the attitude of many of the fev fans is they want their chance at returning to the top , agreed at the mo we are far away from the elite few in the S/L but so are the bottom teams in the S/L .

they have had years to try and get there whilst we have faced a closed shop, the new proposals give us an opportunity to compete against the bottom of the S/L and if successful then move to the next level , given an even playing field there is no reason why we cant do it but at the very least we ,along with 3 or 4 others in the championship deserve the chance or the hope of one day getting there

option 3 gives us that and surely when the second part kicks in the 2nd tier will be very competative and that can only be a good thing for the game . investors are starting to come forward into the less fashionable teams (us and salford) and they have to be given hope that their cash will result in a shot of getting up there with the big boys , again has to be good for the game that they are coming forward

 

Nah, they just present you with another closed shop.

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BradfordBristol *Calder (Wakefield, Castleford & Featherstone)CatalanCheshire (Warrington & Widnes)Cumbria (Barrow, Whitehaven & Workington, likely playing out of Carlisle)Edinburgh *Huddersfield/HalifaxKingston-upon-Hull (Hull KR & Hull FC)LeedsLondon BroncosLondon Skolars *SalfordSt HelensToulouse *Wigan* = Future expansion team to join only in, say, 2016

Just like the mergers between Huddersfield and sheffield, hull and gateshead.

Joke

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12 team franchised SL (with mergers) and 4 targeted expansion clubs to make 16 and come in line with NRL from, say, 2016.

That this isn't even being discussed is somewhere between stupidity and cowardice IMHO.

Super League needs strong clubs. Period.

It doesn't matter whether they are foundation-less 'outpost' clubs or village teams from Lancashire/Yorkshire, we can't afford to accommodate teams in our flagship competition who can't punch their weight.

IMO the only viable expansion club out there right now is Toulouse.

As a sport we probably have the bandwidth to carry 12 elite clubs right now. As a supporter of some form of P&R, I'm keen to see us develop a way of bringing a significant number of the Championship clubs up to a level where this is practical and desirable.

It seems that somewhere between the pie in the sky dreams of the 'flatcappers' and the 'fervent expansionists' there might just be a middle ground that offers a sensible roadmap

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Just like the mergers between Huddersfield and sheffield, hull and gateshead.

Joke

No, like the mergers between St George Dragons & Illawarra Steelers and Western Suburbs & Balmain Tigers.

The examples you speak of were not mergers but enforced takeovers.

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No, like the mergers between St George Dragons & Illawarra Steelers and Western Suburbs & Balmain Tigers.

The examples you speak of were not mergers but enforced takeovers.

 

You were given many explanations around why the merger in the mythical calder region would not work, and still you persist.  

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Yes, so Cas and HKR being promoted was a good thing then. If they get relegated they will be in a far better position from which to build.

Mr. Sadler was clear about what could happen if Cas are relegated. He suggested that all directors loans could be called in and the ground sold off cheap to finance this. Castleford could become another Oldham.

Larry said the other day Cas's problem is allegedly directors want their money back.

HKR in the championship built nothing, they dropped to the championship in 1994 where they ended the season on 1900 gates. Nine years of "building" saw them on 1500 gates.

It took Messrs Crossland and Hudgell to buy the club back into the big time.

I cannot find any record of any club outside the top flight building up their business to any real position of strength without generous directors gifts.

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Larry - if after the first season the new 12 teams is the top tier are tier 1 plus the top 4 from tier 2 , then its not a closed shop

and i cant believe that the nonsense of the mergers is being brought up again - the proposals by dead shot ken are laughable bordering on insanity

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But I have thought it through, just look at the dwindling attendances throughout the pro game. Fans are becoming bored and that's why the people who are running the sport are taking these radical steps to change direction.

With the utmost respect assuming "fans are becoming bored" which you have no evidence for, and further assuming the greedy SL clubs you so often castigate are so in agreement with you, have seen the light and are prepared to break up Superleague for you to enter it ASAP, really isn't logical thinking in any shape of form, but don't take offence Mr. M. your a great optimist.

Looking at it via events, the BBC did a close up north piece telling us Superleague was unsustainable and running up heavy debts. The reply on here was "oh it doesn't matter as long as the rich chairmen keep gifting the clubs money".

But there goes another assumption that the rich men are all gifting clubs money.

Besides that further events have included chairmen at HKR, Cas, Widnes stepping down and the chairman at London is tipped to pack up. That's terrible news for these clubs and fatal news if those chairmen want as much money back as the clubs have assets to fund.

Now to Mr. Mark Campbell who welcomes the proposed changes with glee. He states "clubs in SL are selling their players because there's nothing to play for" really?

All of a sudden he no longer wants to be in a 14 club closed shop Superleague because there's "nothing to play for". There's something else that doesn't add up. If Rovers are so cash rich with Mr. Nahaboos pledge of full salary cap year on year (Griff wanted to know will this be gifted or loaned against the ground? do you know??) then they should be fighting to get the RFL to keep their promise and promote Rovers straight to Superleague for 2015 because unlike the half dozen busted flushes at the bottom end of the competition they can afford to compete.

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Super League needs strong clubs. Period.

It doesn't matter whether they are foundation-less 'outpost' clubs or village teams from Lancashire/Yorkshire, we can't afford to accommodate teams in our flagship competition who can't punch their weight.

IMO the only viable expansion club out there right now is Toulouse.

As a sport we probably have the bandwidth to carry 12 elite clubs right now.

Totally agree with that there's more chairmen stepping down than standing up for a go at SL.

It's an expensive business.

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With the utmost respect assuming "fans are becoming bored" which you have no evidence for, and further assuming the greedy SL clubs you so often castigate are so in agreement with you, have seen the light and are prepared to break up Superleague for you to enter it ASAP, really isn't logical thinking in any shape of form, but don't take offence Mr. M. your a great optimist.Looking at it via events, the BBC did a close up north piece telling us Superleague was unsustainable and running up heavy debts. The reply on here was "oh it doesn't matter as long as the rich chairmen keep gifting the clubs money".But there goes another assumption that the rich men are all gifting clubs money.Besides that further events have included chairmen at HKR, Cas, Widnes stepping down and the chairman at London is tipped to pack up. That's terrible news for these clubs and fatal news if those chairmen want as much money back as the clubs have assets to fund.Now to Mr. Mark Campbell who welcomes the proposed changes with glee. He states "clubs in SL are selling their players because there's nothing to play for" really?All of a sudden he no longer wants to be in a 14 club closed shop Superleague because there's "nothing to play for". There's something else that doesn't add up. If Rovers are so cash rich with Mr. Nahaboos pledge of full salary cap year on year (Griff wanted to know will this be gifted or loaned against the ground? do you know??) then they should be fighting to get the RFL to keep their promise and promote Rovers straight to Superleague for 2015 because unlike the half dozen busted flushes at the bottom end of the competition they can afford to compete.

Why are gates at Cas, Bradford, Huddersfield, Salford, London, HKR etc on the slide? The game has become stale. Even SKY has given its blessing to the proposed changes. I wish you could meet Mark Campbell. As you say and as I said in a reply above to Larry, it would be easy for Fev to vote for the status quo and be gifted a place in SL. Mark sees the bigger picture for the game ie an intense level of competition that involves all clubs all season long with a clear pathway. If that means Fev have then to play their way into the top echelon then so be it. That's how it should be.

By the way, where have I castigated SL clubs in this debate?

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Bradford

Bristol *

Calder (Wakefield, Castleford & Featherstone)

Catalan

Cheshire (Warrington & Widnes)

Cumbria (Barrow, Whitehaven & Workington, likely playing out of Carlisle)

Edinburgh *

Huddersfield/Halifax

Kingston-upon-Hull (Hull KR & Hull FC)

Leeds

London Broncos

London Skolars *

Salford

St Helens

Toulouse *

Wigan

* = Future expansion team to join only in, say, 2016

 

While I see the point there (apart from it being unaffordable at present) I do think nowadays you wouldn't really want to put Warrington and Widnes into a merger when Warrinton has a good sized population and is now a bigger club (which got an A licence last time).  Especially when you keep Wigan and St Helens separate when they are as close to each other, as are St Helens and Widnes which based on current perfomrance and recent ground sharing I would suggest is a more acceptable merger.

 

I'll put my spoon away now but I think for mergers to work you almost need to have every club in a merger otherwise you do get people feeling their area is being looked down on.  The alternative is to make the bold decision and pick only one of the existing clubs (eg Wakefield, Warrington, Workington, Huddersfield and Hull FC in your mergers) and say they are the SL club.  Better to annoy all but one of the clubs than all of them...

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Why are gates at Cas, Bradford, Huddersfield, Salford, London, HKR etc on the slide? The game has become stale. Even SKY has given its blessing to the proposed changes. I wish you could meet Mark Campbell. As you say and as I said in a reply above to Larry, it would be easy for Fev to vote for the status quo and be gifted a place in SL. Mark sees the bigger picture for the game ie an intense level of competition that involves all clubs all season long with a clear pathway. If that means Fev have then to play their way into the top echelon then so be it. That's how it should be.

By the way, where have I castigated SL clubs in this debate?

 

Terry, I'm not sure whether you're aware or not but there's one hell of an economic downturn on at the moment.  Food/fuel inflation is way above wage inflation, and disposable incomes are being squeezed considerably.  I'd say that this offers a good starting point as to why perhaps crowds at some clubs are down.  They're well up at Wakefield, and they're reported as being up at Featherstone too, and yet both play in "stale" competitions.

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Interesting to see that after the initial surge into option 1 and 2,    Option 3 is now persuading people more and more.

 

Because it's a new style of system you can understand those quick to make up their minds casting it aside.  But it's not actually as complicated as it sounds and seams to fit a lot of peoples interests.

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Why are gates at Cas, Bradford, Huddersfield, Salford, London, HKR etc on the slide?

By the way, where have I castigated SL clubs in this debate?

Cas - because the club sells it's best players and loses lots of games.

Bradford - because they went downhill and then went bust

Salford - because they lost their investor and sold their better players on

London - because they can't get a decent side and lose all the time

HKR because they have started selling their better players and the investor has pulled any further investment.

These are the real reasons, not because SL has become "boring".

You have castigated SL clubs for resisting P & R many times haven't you?

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It's not actually as complicated as it sounds and seams to fit a lot of peoples interests.

I think you have something there. The option may not be best for the game but as long as it's best for 13 out of 24 clubs the "ayes" have it......

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