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Super League League Reconstruction

Super League Format   129 members have voted

  1. 1. Which opition/format for Super league do you want from 2015 onwards?

    • Option 1 - Super League reverts to a 12-team competition (from 14) and a 10 or 12-team Championship, with one club promoted and relegated each year.
      48
    • Option 2 - A two division Super League with each division comprising of 10 teams.
      19
    • Opition 3 - Two divisions of 12 in Super League with teams playing each other one to provide 11 fixtures before spliting into 3 groups of 8 in mi-season then playing each other home & away to provide 14 more Matches.
      62

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442 posts in this topic

Yes keep the licence system its brilliant, clubs going bust still, clubs still signing average overseas players, clubs moving into new flashy mainly rented stadiums they can't afford, standard not getting anywhere close to NRL. Uncompetitive games, lower league clubs cast adrift until every 3 years when they promote pretty much who they like. The licence system despite all the reasons that were originally given was brought in by self interested clubs so that they could pretty much remain at the top for eternity.

 

RL is the laughing stock of UK sport, if you can call it a sport anymore with how little things are settled on the pitch. It there was 14 strong exceptional all conquering clubs up there I could understand the arrogant elitist attitude shown but the Richard Lewis ###### kissers on here but its not the case, its so far from the case. Things have to change, whatever that may be for the good of the game at all levels and a big part of that its to make things more competitive and a clear pathway on the pitch. That's what sport is about, dreams can be achieved on the pitch and not just in a boardroom.

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Yes keep the licence system its brilliant, clubs going bust still, clubs still signing average overseas players, clubs moving into new flashy mainly rented stadiums they can't afford, standard not getting anywhere close to NRL.

Those things are not the fault of the licensing system.

Those problems you identify would still have occured under a continuation of P & R.

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Yes keep the licence system its brilliant, clubs going bust still, clubs still signing average overseas players, clubs moving into new flashy mainly rented stadiums they can't afford, standard not getting anywhere close to NRL. Uncompetitive games, lower league clubs cast adrift until every 3 years when they promote pretty much who they like. The licence system despite all the reasons that were originally given was brought in by self interested clubs so that they could pretty much remain at the top for eternity.

 

RL is the laughing stock of UK sport, if you can call it a sport anymore with how little things are settled on the pitch. It there was 14 strong exceptional all conquering clubs up there I could understand the arrogant elitist attitude shown but the Richard Lewis ###### kissers on here but its not the case, its so far from the case. Things have to change, whatever that may be for the good of the game at all levels and a big part of that its to make things more competitive and a clear pathway on the pitch. That's what sport is about, dreams can be achieved on the pitch and not just in a boardroom.

Are we playing RL fan bingo? 'Cos I call 'house'.

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Terry, I'm not sure whether you're aware or not but there's one hell of an economic downturn on at the moment.  Food/fuel inflation is way above wage inflation, and disposable incomes are being squeezed considerably.  I'd say that this offers a good starting point as to why perhaps crowds at some clubs are down.  They're well up at Wakefield, and they're reported as being up at Featherstone too, and yet both play in "stale" competitions.

But why is the economic downturn bypassing the people of Wakey, Fev, Wigan, Leeds, Hull? That's not the reason.

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But why is the economic downturn bypassing the people of Wakey, Fev, Wigan, Leeds, Hull? That's not the reason.

It's not. 

 

With the exception of the Saints game - all Wigan home games have seen a decrease year on year.

 

Hull have had minor increases in only 2 of their games.

 

Leeds have had 1 increase with drops in all the others.

 

Stats taken from rugby league project - they weren't 100% up to date they haven't had the last couple of weeks in, but make the point.

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Cas - because the club sells it's best players and loses lots of games.Bradford - because they went downhill and then went bustSalford - because they lost their investor and sold their better players onLondon - because they can't get a decent side and lose all the timeHKR because they have started selling their better players and the investor has pulled any further investment.These are the real reasons, not because SL has become "boring".You have castigated SL clubs for resisting P & R many times haven't you?

Why is Cas having to sell its best players?

Why did Bradford go bust?

Why did John Wilkinson get fed up?

Why can't London put a decent side on the pitch?

Why has Hudgell pulled the plug?

One reason answers all.... Revenue from Gates were dropping alarmingly. So what's the reason for that I wonder??? Why aren't the fans coming???

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It's not. 

 

With the exception of the Saints game - all Wigan home games have seen a decrease year on year.

 

Hull have had minor increases in only 2 of their games.

 

Leeds have had 1 increase with drops in all the others.

 

Stats taken from rugby league project - they weren't 100% up to date they haven't had the last couple of weeks in, but make the point.

Thanks for that Dave, I stand corrected but they're all still pulling in big crowds. It would be interesting to measure the ratio of their decline against such as Bradford, Salford, Cas etc and even Huddersfield who are currently flying, form wise.

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Thanks for that Dave, I stand corrected but they're all still pulling in big crowds. It would be interesting to measure the ratio of their decline against such as Bradford, Salford, Cas etc and even Huddersfield who are currently flying, form wise.

i think the problem is that there are so many variables we could look at all sorts of things - including weather.

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Bradford

Bristol *

Calder (Wakefield, Castleford & Featherstone)

Catalan

Cheshire (Warrington & Widnes)

Cumbria (Barrow, Whitehaven & Workington, likely playing out of Carlisle)

Edinburgh *

Huddersfield/Halifax

Kingston-upon-Hull (Hull KR & Hull FC)

Leeds

London Broncos

London Skolars *

Salford

St Helens

Toulouse *

Wigan

* = Future expansion team to join only in, say, 2016

Seriously?

London Skolars (bottom two in KPC1, tier 2)

Bristol (top of the bottom league in tier 3)

Edinburgh (champions of the Scottish league, tier 4).

Surprised there's no mention of a Welsh team.

And that's before the mergers!

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But why is the economic downturn bypassing the people of Wakey, Fev, Wigan, Leeds, Hull? That's not the reason.

 

I think that Wakefield and Featherstone have marketed themselves very well in the last few years my old pal.  Wakefield under Glover have done more marketing than in the last thirty years.  People were tired of shifty old Ted, they now have hope.

 

Rovers have hope too.

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Bradford

Bristol *

Calder (Wakefield, Castleford & Featherstone)

Catalan

Cheshire (Warrington & Widnes)

Cumbria (Barrow, Whitehaven & Workington, likely playing out of Carlisle)

Edinburgh *

Huddersfield/Halifax

Kingston-upon-Hull (Hull KR & Hull FC)

Leeds

London Broncos

London Skolars *

Salford

St Helens

Toulouse *

Wigan

* = Future expansion team to join only in, say, 2016

This just isn't going to happen is it. You need to be a tad realistic.

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But why is the economic downturn bypassing the people of Wakey, Fev, Wigan, Leeds, Hull? That's not the reason.

Wakey are doing ok on the back of cheap tickets and a double glazing salesman lol

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looks like the Warrington coach has done a u turn from his tirade earlier.

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looks like the Warrington coach has done a u turn from his tirade earlier.

Why is that Doghead, what's he saying now?

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Why is Cas having to sell its best players?

Why did Bradford go bust?

Why did John Wilkinson get fed up?

Why can't London put a decent side on the pitch?

Why has Hudgell pulled the plug?

One reason answers all

Don't be so simplistic. You know that what gives you 15,000 crowds is winning SL all the time and what gives you 150 is losing all the time and being perceived by your target audience to be serial losers.

The trick is to create a league in which all clubs can be winners, all clubs can win games and none of the clubs are so clapped out or hard up that their fans walk away en masse.

You came up with this "Super league is boring" stuff.

I then watched Wire.v.Hull tonight and my god it was brilliant.

Terry, your not going to get far with your argument mate....

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Why is that Doghead, what's he saying now?

That Superlegue needs to be an intense competitive league and if that means a 10 team league so be it.

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It may escape your notice but the English Rugby Union Premiership works on 12 clubs on a consistent basis, and it has not led to the game "disappearing up it's own backside".

Just to be clear, outside the Premiership fixtures, the English union clubs play 4 matches in the pool stages of the Anglo-Welsh cup and 6 matches in the pool stages of the Heineken or Amlin cups. So they do not have the problem of needing more teams to play at a higher intensity as they will face at least two non-Premiership teams both home and away during the season. And with a minimum of 32 matches each year before playoffs and knockout rounds in cups the season is probably too long to extend the Premiership anyway.

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Don't be so simplistic. You know that what gives you 15,000 crowds is winning SL all the time and what gives you 150 is losing all the time and being perceived by your target audience to be serial losers.The trick is to create a league in which all clubs can be winners, all clubs can win games and none of the clubs are so clapped out or hard up that their fans walk away en masse.You came up with this "Super league is boring" stuff.I then watched Wire.v.Hull tonight and my god it was brilliant.Terry, your not going to get far with your argument mate....

Not going to get far with my argument? Really? Seems the clubs at all levels of the pro game think differently. I'm just repeating what they have said re the proposed reforms. The game has become stale Parky.

Tonight's game played by two of the best supported clubs was a cracker, I agree with you but such contests are too few and far between and limited in the main to the hand full of clubs worthy of the 'Super' tag

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:D

 

Can you imagine the impact on the TRL servers if they went for that?! Absolutely insane, and well worth a read...

Just to be clear, did you check out how division 2 works as well?

The top team overall is automatically promoted, but to decide the promotion playoffs the season is divided into thirds with separate league tables. The winners of each of these thirds go into the promotion playoffs along with the winner of the division 1 relegation playoff. If a team wins multiple thirds of gets promoted automatically then the runners-up on the overall table take up the spare places.

But then Belgium is famous for strong beers.

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Don't be so simplistic. You know that what gives you 15,000 crowds is winning SL all the time and what gives you 150 is losing all the time and being perceived by your target audience to be serial losers.

The trick is to create a league in which all clubs can be winners, all clubs can win games and none of the clubs are so clapped out or hard up that their fans walk away en masse.

You came up with this "Super league is boring" stuff.

I then watched Wire.v.Hull tonight and my god it was brilliant.

Terry, your not going to get far with your argument mate....

 

 

 

Those games are few and far between though mate. surly you have just made a case for the option 3 proposal.  This would create more games like tonights almost every week

 

2 leagues of 12 play each other once and then split into 3 more equally matched leagues.

 

thus creating three leagues of more competative matches.

 

Even in the first 11 games theres everything to play for. Im sure in the 11th game in SL there will be 3-4 teams all with a chance of fiishing 7th or 8th, therefor generating more interest than super league has generated for years.

 

The second tier will be no different, 2 SL league teams initially dropping down into an already competative championship will make for a very exiting first 11 games with all teams going for the top 4. Every game will have meaning with no space for a slip up or complacency.  When it does split into 8 teams and the top 4 are joined by SL bottom 4  then theres potential for a fantatic SL 2 and a much more competative SL1 (which im sure everyone wants)

 

Its a fact that fans like to watch a winning team, Im sure salford fans would love to see their team topping SL2 and regaining their place in Super league, then actually starting the next season with a bit of momentum rather than getting hammered week in week out.  Crowds at fev would defo go up due to more interest from the home fans and no longer having an away fallowing of 25 come to POR

 

its been mentioned on here about the improvement in Wakefields crowds,  well maybe its because they finished last season on a high and it generated a bit of interest for the stay away fans.  Option 3 could do the same for some of the lower SL clubs

 

Why any fan, coach or director of the top teams in SL would oppose such plans is beyond me,

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Those games are few and far between though mate. surly you have just made a case for the option 3 proposal.  This would create more games like tonightes almost every week

 

2 leagues of 12 play each other once and then split into 3 more equally matched leagues.

 

thus creating three leagues of more competative matches.

 

even in the first 11 games theres everything to play for. Im sure in the 11th game in SL there wil be 3-4 teams all with a chance of fiished 7th or 8th, therefor generating more interest than super league has generated for years.

 

the second tier will be no different 2 SL league teams initially dropping down into an already competative championship will make for a very exiting first 11 games all teams goin g for the top 4,  every game will have meaning with no space for a slip up or complacency.  Whe it does split into 8 teams and the top 4 ajoined by SL bottom 4 you then potential for a fantatic SL 2 and a much more competative SL1 (which im sure everyone wants)

 

Is a fact that fans like to watch a winning team Im sure salford fans would love to see their team topping SL2 and regaining their place in Super league, and actually starting the next season with a bit of momentum rather than getting hammered week in week out.  Crowds at fev would defo go up due to more interest from the home fans and no longer having an away fallowing of 25 come to POR

 

Why any fan of the top teams in SL would oppose such plans is beyond me,

Please explain to me how the middle tier is going to be evenly matched. The four clubs dropping down will have 1.2million in central funding. The four clubs coming up will have 180,000 in central funding. So those clubs are over a million behind even before a ball is kicked. Any 'investor' putting money in will have to throw a million quid into the club just to match the other clubs.

 

We'll undoubtedly end up with four professional clubs playing four semi-pro clubs. In one off matches that gap may be bridgeable, but over a 14 game season it will be too far. The four teams coming down will be the same four teams going back up.

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Please explain to me how the middle tier is going to be evenly matched. The four clubs dropping down will have 1.2million in central funding. The four clubs coming up will have 180,000 in central funding. So those clubs are over a million behind even before a ball is kicked. Any 'investor' putting money in will have to throw a million quid into the club just to match the other clubs.

We'll undoubtedly end up with four professional clubs playing four semi-pro clubs. In one off matches that gap may be bridgeable, but over a 14 game season it will be too far. The four teams coming down will be the same four teams going back up.

I understand this problem is acknowledged by the RFL and is under discussion. Don't ask me how they'll come up with a solution but that's the aim I'm told

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Please explain to me how the middle tier is going to be evenly matched. The four clubs dropping down will have 1.2million in central funding. The four clubs coming up will have 180,000 in central funding. So those clubs are over a million behind even before a ball is kicked. Any 'investor' putting money in will have to throw a million quid into the club just to match the other clubs.

 

We'll undoubtedly end up with four professional clubs playing four semi-pro clubs. In one off matches that gap may be bridgeable, but over a 14 game season it will be too far. The four teams coming down will be the same four teams going back up.

 

I cant speak for the other clubs, but  at the fev rovers forum last week we were told If this was to happen Fev would go full time so thats a start.  Also note Featherstone have no debt and own their own ground, is very well run and nothing is contracted out.  every thing from beer to the ridiculas 5op extra for cheese on a burger :)  goes into featherstones bank.  No rent to pay.  so an increase in crowds is all extra revenue.  I dont believe that the full 1.2 million the lower super league clubs recieve goes completely on paying better quality players, the state of some their finances it defo shouldn't.  No club in SL should rely on that cash.

 

The fact that fev would be full time woud go a long way to helping them cope with the intensity of playing 14 competative games.  As John bastin siad other night, Fev already have some great players capable of playing SL, going full time will take them to the next level.

 

Too many people including martyn sadler commenting without knowing the facts,  who's to say Halifax, sheffied an batley wont have such plans for going full time too.

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Those games are few and far between though mate. surly you have just made a case for the option 3 proposal.  This would create more games like tonights almost every week

 

2 leagues of 12 play each other once and then split into 3 more equally matched leagues.

 

thus creating three leagues of more competative matches.

I like your style, it's like Terry's, very optimistic.

With respect to both of you you have made pure assumptions it will work.

You assume SL clubs with money will compete evenly with CC clubs with much less money, and then on returning to SL will compete with 8 clubs with even more money.

The fixture set up is in theory a cracker, in practice it will pitch clubs against eac other who have squads of very different abilities.

The top eight clubs will have all the best players

The next four will have pro squads but without much quality

the next four will have semi pro squads.

I don't think you and Terry have considered this....

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