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juliancaine

Adrian morley

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And I wonder if Featherstone will get dragged into the great Warrington debate now that their heir apparent is from Wire....you know his "parent club" I'd just love to see some of those who comment on here say these things to his face, but then when they had the chance the didn't turn up.

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I think ultimately gary chambers will end up back at his "parent club" warrington wolves, he might as well have been called warrington wolves reserve team coach the way things have gone.

I thought you didnt care anymore? You are becoming just the same as the Trolls from other clubs. At least Phillh has stopped posting tripe now he's found a new club to go to. Cant you do the same?

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Well, well well ,mouth almighty greengrass is bursting his blood vessels again.On my last count i think his season ticket as been returned four times ,it must be on a long piece of elastic. You go on about watching the lions for 25 years, i have been watching them for 65 years and if i had another 65 years i wwould still go on watching them because they are MY TEAM. Ifthis means warts and all then so be it.When i look at a situation i don't just scratch the surface i delve deeper before shouting my mouth off. e.g agecroft. The man who you are slagging off is the only one trying to bring it about,wheres the help from Salford council.thats going to Salford reds.Another £600.000 last week 0n top of the millions alreadygiven them. Mr Kidd must be tearing his hair out.On d/r i'm not a lover of it but where would we be at the moment without it.We have injured Hulme, Burke, Watson, Hawkyard ,Bridge laithwaite,and now possibly Ritchie Hawkyard with the size of the squad we have D/R is a god send Yes we need a bigger squad consisting of championship quality but they don't grow on trees and on average crowds of 400-450 there is no way we can afford them without someone dipping into his pocket. I wonder who that someone is Greengrass? Instead of you spitting your dummy out you should be supporting your team,that is if you are a true fan of the lions, firstly by attending matches secondly by spreading by word of mouth that Swinton are still here and intend to stay alive to bring rugby tothe people of Swinton and Pendlebury into the future. Stopping watching the lions can only bring about the demise of our great club is this whet you really want?. it may not be to our liking whats going on but we are still here to see things change and fight another day stop going and it will be another nail in the coffin of a club with a great tradition, so whats it going to be help the lions to survive or watch them disappear into the past, i kn ow where my allegence will be.LONG LIVE THE LIONS

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I thought you didnt care anymore? You are becoming just the same as the Trolls from other clubs. At least Phillh has stopped posting tripe now he's found a new club to go to. Cant you do the same?

 

Thanks for the glowing endorsement.  A nice demonstration too of the attitude towards its potential customers adopted by successive management regimes at Swinton Lions, the success of which is reflected in the support base reaching its current all-time-low numbers.

 

There is only one way for Swinton Lions firstly to survive and secondly to grow in the medium to longer term; a fit-for-purpose new ground within the locality backed with a lot of hard work off-the-pitch.

 

Partnering with Warrington is not the answer.  It addresses none of the factors you stated are holding the club back (unless that is, you believe the future ought to be focussed on attracting Warrington supporters to take on watching the Lions as a second string).  I'm far from convinced it has even helped to inprove on-the-field performance, either - your assertions on that cannot be proven either way.  At best Partnering with Warrington has been done in such a manner that its allowed John Kidd to save a few quid and Paul to live his dream of rubbing shoulders with the Super League "elite".  It has not taken Swinton Lions forwards any.  Whatsmore, if it continues in this vein there will be no basis for Swinton Lions to ever get any better on the playing side, if the primary function is for Swinton Lions to be used as a player development tool for Warrington.  Lucky Warrington!  400 people watching their reserves who are being given opportunity to play at Championship level - and its clear they can dictate who plays and when - from their point of view its a fantastic arrangement.

 

Hunslet have not done the same thing as Swinton Lions! Only one championship club has gone so far as handing out 6 sham year-long contracts to players from their partner club as a cynical means of subverting the limit of 5 Dual Registered and Loaned players, then merrily danced to the tune of these players actually still belonging to someone else!  Only one championship club has allowed the coach and players from their partner club to refer to it in terms of being an "A" team, or a "feeder club" and given not a single word in defence!

 

Is there really much point in the club continuing, if the goal is to be a feeder club or A team to Warrington?  If that's not the case, where's the rebukes from Swinton Lions club management to the recent widely publicised quotes from Adrian Morley and Tony Smith?

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Phil you obviously still don't get it!!!!

None of us are over the moon with the set up. None of us believe its the long term future for us.

We all want a new ground etc etc....

You are not unique. Neither is your oft repeated insight into our club

Unfortunately unlike you we cant dual reg ourselves aa fans with Leigh. We are Swinton fans or nowt.

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I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Alright I'm sorry.

I apologise profusely to everyone for waking the Krakken. I thought he'd gone!

I'm also sorry to you Phillh as you were probably enjoying your week and you had put the memory of deserting your club behind you and concentrated on your recollections of Miss Barton!

Unfortunately during this time you have not thought of anything new to say. It's all the same. We need a new ground. WE KNOW. Not gonna get one if we don't have a club though are we. D/R isn't the best option for clubs. WE KNOW. One the gate money we were getting BEFORE we entered into partnership with Warrington we were never going to afford a fantastic squad. That's why players left for more money. Hunts let fans have stated publicly that they would accept ANY help from Leeds to survive. They use what they need. Do you know what players Leeds offer. NO! The club have not spoken out over these issues. WOAH! I AGREE. But then again, I haven't bought a programme for years. Have you even read one recently to find out?

I actually agree with some of the things you say Phillh, Im sure some other do too, but I don't agree with the fact that you profess to KNOW everything rather than the fact you are surmising, guessing or opinionating like most everyone else on here. You seem to just have the same issues time and again. As I've said before, you talk like a true politician, never answering a direct question but rather pose a different question to deflect the fact you neither know the answer or be caught up and express an opinion which can be referred to later.

The difference between you and most of the other people on here is that you are not a fighter mate. Yes you've stuck around for a number of years, like the rest of us, but you haven't got the stomach to stay in the fight till the bitter end if it comes to it if it isn't going your way.

I will watch the last Swinton match my friend, be it the clubs or mine. I won't turn turtle. Never!

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Oh, and as for asking Adrian Morley about his comments, if you had been there on Sunday you could have asked him. After acknowledging the support he received from the fans he immediately came over to them to sign autographs for the kids and have an, all be it brief, chat with the crowd, such as it was!

You see it's all about one persons perceptions on a situation. He has his, you have yours, but neither my actually be correct!

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There is only one way for Swinton Lions firstly to survive and secondly to grow in the medium to longer term; a fit-for-purpose new ground within the locality backed with a lot of hard work off-the-pitch.

 

Utterly and totally agree on this critical point. Roll on the return home, it can't come soon enough

 

:onthequiet:

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I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Alright I'm sorry.

I apologise profusely to everyone for waking the Krakken. I thought he'd gone!

I'm also sorry to you Phillh as you were probably enjoying your week and you had put the memory of deserting your club behind you and concentrated on your recollections of Miss Barton!

Unfortunately during this time you have not thought of anything new to say. It's all the same. We need a new ground. WE KNOW. Not gonna get one if we don't have a club though are we. D/R isn't the best option for clubs. WE KNOW. One the gate money we were getting BEFORE we entered into partnership with Warrington we were never going to afford a fantastic squad. That's why players left for more money. Hunts let fans have stated publicly that they would accept ANY help from Leeds to survive. They use what they need. Do you know what players Leeds offer. NO! The club have not spoken out over these issues. WOAH! I AGREE. But then again, I haven't bought a programme for years. Have you even read one recently to find out?

I actually agree with some of the things you say Phillh, Im sure some other do too, but I don't agree with the fact that you profess to KNOW everything rather than the fact you are surmising, guessing or opinionating like most everyone else on here. You seem to just have the same issues time and again. As I've said before, you talk like a true politician, never answering a direct question but rather pose a different question to deflect the fact you neither know the answer or be caught up and express an opinion which can be referred to later.

The difference between you and most of the other people on here is that you are not a fighter mate. Yes you've stuck around for a number of years, like the rest of us, but you haven't got the stomach to stay in the fight till the bitter end if it comes to it if it isn't going your way.

I will watch the last Swinton match my friend, be it the clubs or mine. I won't turn turtle. Never!

 

Struggling to understand how backing submission to a Super League club, to the extent that Swinton Lions is being openly referred to as being their "A team / second team / feeder team" can in any way be equated to "being a fighter".

 

What are the things that ought to be fought against?

 

Personally I would start with Salford City Council and the need for both a new ground and partnerships off-the-field in terms of community work. What are the specific barriers to progress?  We aren't being told and supporters are being deliberately kept out of the loop -  so, there's no scope to join any fight on that topic at the moment.

 

Perhaps throw in a fight against non-RL factors - such as the domination of football.

 

And crucialy I believe the RFL should be on the hit list too, in terms of its over indulgence of Super League clubs and at times over fixation with geographical expansion at the expense of the semi pro game especially in the traditional heartlands.  Lack of promotion and relegation to and from Super League, the undermining of ambition for those outside Super League being key issues.

 

However, by sacrificing itself as far as possible on the alter of Partnering, and kowtowing to Warrington, what the current management at Swinton Lions has done is actually roll over to exactly what the short sighted RFL and self interested Super League clubs have wanted!  Where would the Championship end up if every club within it had behaved in the same manner as Swinton Lions this season? Nothing more than a reserve league!

 

If they were looking to fight, the stance would've been along the lines of:

 

 "Partnering???  No thanks!  If SL clubs want to scrap the Under 23s for their own cost cutting purposes, let it be them rather than Championship clubs pay the proper price: Release this generation of young players and we'll take them on, but on our own terms.  Then if any prove to be late developers and show ability to cut it in SL and you want them back, you'll have to fork out a transfer fee!"

 

As it is, Swinton Lions has done more than any other club outside Super League to help those in the top tier to have their cake and eat it!  No fighting spirit there, just blatant moral-less opportunism! 

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Struggling to understand how backing submission to a Super League club, to the extent that Swinton Lions is being openly referred to as being their "A team / second team / feeder team" can in any way be equated to "being a fighter".

 

What are the things that ought to be fought against?

 

Personally I would start with Salford City Council and the need for both a new ground and partnerships off-the-field in terms of community work. What are the specific barriers to progress?  We aren't being told and supporters are being deliberately kept out of the loop -  so, there's no scope to join any fight on that topic at the moment.

 

Perhaps throw in a fight against non-RL factors - such as the domination of football.

 

And crucialy I believe the RFL should be on the hit list too, in terms of its over indulgence of Super League clubs and at times over fixation with geographical expansion at the expense of the semi pro game especially in the traditional heartlands.  Lack of promotion and relegation to and from Super League, the undermining of ambition for those outside Super League being key issues.

 

However, by sacrificing itself as far as possible on the alter of Partnering, and kowtowing to Warrington, what the current management at Swinton Lions has done is actually roll over to exactly what the short sighted RFL and self interested Super League clubs have wanted!  Where would the Championship end up if every club within it had behaved in the same manner as Swinton Lions this season? Nothing more than a reserve league!

 

If they were looking to fight, the stance would've been along the lines of:

 

 "Partnering???  No thanks!  If SL clubs want to scrap the Under 23s for their own cost cutting purposes, let it be them rather than Championship clubs pay the proper price: Release this generation of young players and we'll take them on, but on our own terms.  Then if any prove to be late developers and show ability to cut it in SL and you want them back, you'll have to fork out a transfer fee!"

 

As it is, Swinton Lions has done more than any other club outside Super League to help those in the top tier to have their cake and eat it!  No fighting spirit there, just blatant moral-less opportunism! 

I for once find my self agreeing with part of your post there Phil H, particularly the comments about allowing the players to leave the SL clubs and sign for Championship clubs with a view to a transfer fee if they are required back.

However If I was an agent for a young player and was advising him I would firstly tell him to only sign a twelve month deal and secondly much as is the case now have a get out clause built in in the event a SL club comes knocking.

 

As sad as it is the RL care only about SL and the top five or six teams at that. Therefore it leaves the lower clubs scrapping over players and results in the taking of loan from other clubs who can afford large squads or in the case this year the D/R system and as you will have seen yesterday your new love Leigh have signed D/R since they now have as little cash as Swinton and can't afford to recruit.

 

It is a sad reflection on the decision makers at RL headquarters and one which in my opinion they knew would have to be adopted by Championship clubs since in reality we all know that in the lower leagues money isn't awash.

 

Continued criticism of the Swinton board is fine unless you know that they had the finances to take a different stance, the probability is they don't and until either a very generous fan chucks a wad of cash or another backer comes in then you cut your cloth accordingly. Those who have chose to stay away will no doubt have done so for their own reasons but in doing so they are assisting in possibly sending the Lions back to Championship 1 or even worse.

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Glenngary - we are entitled to our opinions and yes this is the final time I am saying it.  As for almighty mouth greengrass, you wanna watch your mouth and the way you toalk to people because you could end up in trouble cause of it. 

 

I could not give a how long you have been supporting them, I am stopping watching them because I have had a enough.  I am not the only one, I know at least 20 people who have stopped going because of the current regime.

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Utterly and totally agree on this critical point. Roll on the return home, it can't come soon enough

 

:onthequiet:

 

I agree with you both totally, but it isn't going to happen unless new backers/owners are found as it is plainly obvious the current regime can't even fund a full first team squad and have to rely on warrington wolves for players etc let alone a new ground. If there was even a remote chance of a ground in m27 where are the plans/outline planning permissions , I guess they are non existant  otherwise we would surely have seen them by now???. :sclerosis:

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More unpleasant exchanges.

Lets put our money where are mouths are and do a fan buy out?

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Yes very sad to see all the unpleasantness! Hopefully some positive news on Agecroft will go some way to healing the rift between us all.

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The rift is only an attitude difference in my opinion

We all want the same thing...its what we do in the meantime and how we treat the club or even more simply speak about the club that is creating conflict.

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As sad as it is the RL care only about SL and the top five or six teams at that. Therefore it leaves the lower clubs scrapping over players and results in the taking of loan from other clubs who can afford large squads or in the case this year the D/R system and as you will have seen yesterday your new love Leigh have signed D/R since they now have as little cash as Swinton and can't afford to recruit.

 

It is a sad reflection on the decision makers at RL headquarters and one which in my opinion they knew would have to be adopted by Championship clubs since in reality we all know that in the lower leagues money isn't awash.

 

Our 'betters', the RFL, the ones who run (down) our once glorious sport. See below the 'Gang of Five' who rule the roost at RFL HQ. (Taken from Wikipedia)

 

 

The RFL board consists of the following

 

These current rulers of our sport certainly don't look like the types of folk who once managed our game do they?

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I'm sure John Kidd himself would acknowledge that mistakes have been made along the way, but one fact remains and that is I don't see anyone else queuing up to take the club on. John and Paul Kidd are both on record as admitting that the long term future of the club stands and falls on the delivery of a new stadium. So i have no doubt that John is working tirelessly towards that end, although maybe regular updates would be welcome. I believe they deserve our support at this critical time.

And given the potential restructuring of the game as reported, it's imperative that we stay in this division. If that means taking advantage of current nonsense DR regulations then so be it. None of us like it and the RFL will have to look at it again if only because under the proposed restructuring you might have dual-registered clubs playing in the same division! But in the meantime...

So support the team and the club is my view. What's the alternative? Walk away? Believe me I've thought about it but how can I when it's in the blood?

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I'm sure John Kidd himself would acknowledge that mistakes have been made along the way, but one fact remains and that is I don't see anyone else queuing up to take the club on. John and Paul Kidd are both on record as admitting that the long term future of the club stands and falls on the delivery of a new stadium. So i have no doubt that John is working tirelessly towards that end, although maybe regular updates would be welcome. I believe they deserve our support at this critical time.

And given the potential restructuring of the game as reported, it's imperative that we stay in this division. If that means taking advantage of current nonsense DR regulations then so be it. None of us like it and the RFL will have to look at it again if only because under the proposed restructuring you might have dual-registered clubs playing in the same division! But in the meantime...

So support the team and the club is my view. What's the alternative? Walk away? Believe me I've thought about it but how can I when it's in the blood?

Exactly right Steve.

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