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Bedford Roughyed

Cameron out of touch

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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4933620/Conservatives-revolt-against-Cameron.html

At least 35 angry party chairmen signed a letter warning he is out of touch and will cost them the next election.

 

Though all the polls suggest that Cameron is closer to public opinion on this.  Cameron tried to bring his party towards the centre, yet they seem to want to jump right, away from any election hopes?

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Are politicians in touch with anything?

 

Their expenses claim forms?

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Cameron is actually more in touch with the electorate as a whole than he is with the swivel-eyed loons of the conservative party itself.  What the constituency party activists forget is that their type of organisation is increasingly irrelevant in this electronic world. Party leaders now appeal directly to the electorate and short circuit the loons. Why should just 177,000 Conservative party members decide  what is good for all Conservative voters?

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Cameron is actually more in touch with the electorate as a whole than he is with the swivel-eyed loons of the conservative party itself.  What the constituency party activists forget is that their type of organisation is increasingly irrelevant in this electronic world. Party leaders now appeal directly to the electorate and short circuit the loons. Why should just 177,000 Conservative party members decide  what is good for all Conservative voters?

 

Presumably they take the view that if you want a say you should pay the sub. I allowed myself to be driven out of the Labour party by left wing loonies in the early eighties.  They were fanatics, they knew all the rules and all the wrinkles of how to get stuff through meetings. TBF they did a hell of a lot of the work at election time too, but obviously they had a motive, they wanted Labour to be a Trotksyist party.  What they didn't seem to realise was that most people wouldn't vote for such a party. You can have all the ideals in the world but if you can't get elected you're wasting your time.  TBH reckon Blair took this attittude too far. Had John Smith lived perhaps we'd have seen a better outcome for Labour long term.  If the Tories continue down this line then the ultimate result will be the mirror image of what happened to Labour in the eighties.  The right of centre vote split and the lunatics in charge of the assylum.  They should look at the 1983 election result and quail. Having said all that I don't believe Cameron is the man to do it. I believe he is lazy and doesn't master his briefs.  I think he lacks the backbone.  William Hague for me is the only man in the cabinet with any real bottom, just where he stands on the EU issue is hard to tell because of collective responsibility.  For all our sakes should Cameron fall before an election defeat I hope they don't elect Gove, who would not only take us out of Europe but probably split the Union into the bargain.

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 For all our sakes should Cameron fall before an election defeat I hope they don't elect Gove, who would not only take us out of Europe but probably split the Union into the bargain.

 

I've seen some suggestions of Phillip Hammond as a leadership candidate... he makes EdM look exciting!

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My constituency of South Suffolk is so in-grained Tory that you could put George Galloway in a blue Tory rosette and he'd still win without needing to campaign. That's what the swivel eyed loons are banking on as they know they have a guaranteed core vote in many areas.

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Another example of the Tories just not getting it.  If you were to ask a widespread group of people under 30 from all cultures across the country what their views on gay marriage were, the vast majority would wonder what all the fuss was about.

 

Quote: "The letter to Mr Cameron was organised by the Grassroots Conservative group, whose chairman, Bob Woollard, said: ‘This dilution and unravelling of marriage has demotivated many ordinary loyal Conservative Party members and has undermined their years of hard work for something they believed in. It makes winning the next election virtually impossible.’"


Yep, it'll certainly help convince people that the Tories are stuck in the 1950s and have shown they're still the Tory party of 1997 that got thumped at the election.

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uote: "The letter to Mr Cameron was organised by the Grassroots Conservative group, whose chairman, Bob Woollard, said: ‘This dilution and unravelling of marriage has demotivated many ordinary loyal Conservative Party members and has undermined their years of hard work for something they believed in. It makes winning the next election virtually impossible.’"

 

I just don't get this viewpoint. How does letting two people who love each other marry dilute, unravel or in any other way affect marriage as a concept or someones individual marriage? Its like saying someone else cannot eat a burger because you are on a diet. Probably a topic for another thread but this is just one of the reasons why I'm not a conservative.

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My brother-in-law has resigned from the Conservative Party on this issue.

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There has been an observable tension between the authoritarian/paternal/traditional conservatives and the liberal/libertarian right for some time. It has now come to the fore and could well tear the Tories apart. I'll be crying (tears of joy) all the way to the polling station!

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Presumably they take the view that if you want a say you should pay the sub. I allowed myself to be driven out of the Labour party by left wing loonies in the early eighties.  They were fanatics, they knew all the rules and all the wrinkles of how to get stuff through meetings. TBF they did a hell of a lot of the work at election time too, but obviously they had a motive, they wanted Labour to be a Trotksyist party.  What they didn't seem to realise was that most people wouldn't vote for such a party. You can have all the ideals in the world but if you can't get elected you're wasting your time.  TBH reckon Blair took this attittude too far. Had John Smith lived perhaps we'd have seen a better outcome for Labour long term.  If the Tories continue down this line then the ultimate result will be the mirror image of what happened to Labour in the eighties.  The right of centre vote split and the lunatics in charge of the assylum.  They should look at the 1983 election result and quail. Having said all that I don't believe Cameron is the man to do it. I believe he is lazy and doesn't master his briefs.  I think he lacks the backbone.  William Hague for me is the only man in the cabinet with any real bottom, just where he stands on the EU issue is hard to tell because of collective responsibility.  For all our sakes should Cameron fall before an election defeat I hope they don't elect Gove, who would not only take us out of Europe but probably split the Union into the bargain.

To be fair to loonies the argument that "There is no point beating the Tories if you have to become the Tories in order to do so" is a good one.

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There has been an observable tension between the authoritarian/paternal/traditional conservatives and the liberal/libertarian right for some time. It has now come to the fore and could well tear the Tories apart. I'll be crying (tears of joy) all the way to the polling station!

 

It really should be a doddle for Labour to win the next election. I'm waiting to see how they are going to blow it. Right now, they just don't fill me with any confidence.

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Another example of the Tories just not getting it.  If you were to ask a widespread group of people under 30 from all cultures across the country what their views on gay marriage were, the vast majority would wonder what all the fuss was about.

 

Quote: "The letter to Mr Cameron was organised by the Grassroots Conservative group, whose chairman, Bob Woollard, said: ‘This dilution and unravelling of marriage has demotivated many ordinary loyal Conservative Party members and has undermined their years of hard work for something they believed in. It makes winning the next election virtually impossible.’"

Yep, it'll certainly help convince people that the Tories are stuck in the 1950s and have shown they're still the Tory party of 1997 that got thumped at the election.

 

It isn't helping the Tories (or indeed a lot of people who are vocally opposed to this issue), that they are implying the biggest people whose lives will be changed by this change in law being voted through is them! I don't have a lot of sympathy with Cameron that often, but on this issue I do.

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It really should be a doddle for Labour to win the next election. I'm waiting to see how they are going to blow it. Right now, they just don't fill me with any confidence.

 

Can't disagree with that assessment I'm afraid. Of Labour's front bench I can only think of Andy Bunham with any spark of personality and credibility. I'm sure there are some very capable back-benchers, our local chap for instance, but the likes of Harriet Harmon, Ed Balls & his Mrs, the Eagle twins etc leave me cold.

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Can't disagree with that assessment I'm afraid. Of Labour's front bench I can only think of Andy Bunham with any spark of personality and credibility. I'm sure there are some very capable back-benchers, our local chap for instance, but the likes of Harriet Harmon, Ed Balls & his Mrs, the Eagle twins etc leave me cold.

 

Maybe you need to refine your assessment criteria.

:D

 

http://www.sexymp.co.uk/index.php?gender=F

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Sky News is on in the background and there's a "swivel eyed loon" on now who is a Tory Councillor and today he's decided to become UKIP along with another 4 Tories on his council, Merton, I believe.  He holds a perfect note though: "ME, ME, ME, ME, ME"


Personally, if I were Cameron, I'd be taking the whole issue by the balls and telling the rebels to either start falling in line or f*** off to UKIP or whoever else will have them, reminding them that if they do then they'll be responsible for at least another decade of Labour government.  That said, the swivel-eyed loons may just do that as they think they're in the right with the public behind them demanding that gays stay single and Europe should just go away; gay Europeans just make their eyes swivel even more.

For me, this is the problem with negative politics, always against things, never really for them.  It's hard to inspire loyalty on a stable platform when people are used to being hyped to be angry about today's pet topic.

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Rather than Cameron just being out of touch, are all politicians and even party members out of touch with the wider public opinion?

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Sky News is on in the background and there's a "swivel eyed loon" on now who is a Tory Councillor and today he's decided to become UKIP along with another 4 Tories on his council, Merton, I believe.  He holds a perfect note though: "ME, ME, ME, ME, ME"

Personally, if I were Cameron, I'd be taking the whole issue by the balls and telling the rebels to either start falling in line or f*** off to UKIP or whoever else will have them, reminding them that if they do then they'll be responsible for at least another decade of Labour government.  That said, the swivel-eyed loons may just do that as they think they're in the right with the public behind them demanding that gays stay single and Europe should just go away; gay Europeans just make their eyes swivel even more.

For me, this is the problem with negative politics, always against things, never really for them.  It's hard to inspire loyalty on a stable platform when people are used to being hyped to be angry about today's pet topic.

 

This is what a true leader would do. If he did it now, there is time for the Conservative Party to select new candidates before the next election and come out fighting. I don't think such a reorganised party would lose the election. (But I could be wrong)

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Rather than Cameron just being out of touch, are all politicians and even party members out of touch with the wider public opinion?

There has always been some degree of disconnect but the last two decades have seen it become excessively large.  The days of Labour MPs coming in from trades and trades union and Tories coming in from management/ownership have gone to a large extent, there's a career path of a politics centred degree followed by becoming an aide and hoping you impress the central party of similarly minded people.  It's an exception when you get someone appointed from outside this path these days.

 

After the last election, someone posted stats showing that there are more MPs than ever who have no local ties to their constituency with a large number having no county ties, never mind constituency ties.

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I think there's another thing that Cameron, the senior Tories, Tory MPs and local swivel-eyed loons fail to recognise:  They did not win the last general election, they're only in power because they convinced the Lib Dems to join in with a coalition government.  The only conclusive outcome from the last election was that Labour lost it but no other party was convincing enough to persuade the public to vote for them to take the baton of power from the rotting corpse of the Brown government.


If they'd played nicely until the next election then they may have convinced enough neutrals that they could be trusted with sole power again but instead the toddlers have seized control of the car and are wildly driving to a massive car crash.

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@ckn

 

I think you are reading too much into the results. The Tories got 36.1% of the vote, this contrasts with Labour who got 35.2% of the vote in 2005.

 

The fact that Labour had an overall majority and the Tories didn't says a lot about the electoral system but very little about the parties' appeal to swing voters. 

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@ckn

 

I think you are reading too much into the results. The Tories got 36.1% of the vote, this contrasts with Labour who got 35.2% of the vote in 2005.

 

The fact that Labour had an overall majority and the Tories didn't says a lot about the electoral system but very little about the parties' appeal to swing voters. 

A lot of that is recognised in my comments about a rotting corpse Labour government...

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There has always been some degree of disconnect but the last two decades have seen it become excessively large. The days of Labour MPs coming in from trades and trades union and Tories coming in from management/ownership have gone to a large extent, there's a career path of a politics centred degree followed by becoming an aide and hoping you impress the central party of similarly minded people. It's an exception when you get someone appointed from outside this path these days.

After the last election, someone posted stats showing that there are more MPs than ever who have no local ties to their constituency with a large number having no county ties, never mind constituency ties.

Good points I'd like to see politicians that come from outside the political bubble. Few at the top have ever had a job outside of this though there are a few lawyers. It may make a dent in the general apathy toward politics in general.

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