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John Drake

25/05/13 - Hull FC v Hull Kingston Rovers - KO 16:30

Who will win?   12 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Hull FC
      7
    • Hull Kingston Rovers
      4
    • Draw
      1

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205 posts in this topic

To be fair, Eden had been dropped for the last two games but with Gleeson, Welham and Hodgson missing Hall had to play centre.

The reason Hull KR lost this game was the injury to Lovegrove on 60 minutes. Lovegrove and Paea had the Hull pack in their pocket until that point. They were already playing the game with 16 men after George was injured on three minutes and looked tired as crucial calls went against them at the end denying them possession.

Not sure you could pin it all on that moment but we weren't sorry to see Lovegrove go off. He's developed from being an average centre to becoming a very good forward.

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I don't see where all this surprise at Ganson's error comes from. Although I actually think he has been one of our better officials in terms of game control and consistency of decision making over the last decade, his one major flaw has been his propensity for a gaffe in a high profile / pressure situation. Nothing sinister about it.

Agree.  And (ready to be shot down here) I'm starting to feel sorry for the bloke.  He's given pretty much all of his adult life to the game, has been one  of the better officials but has been prone to drop a massive clanger every now & then.  He may well pay a very heavy price for this - maybe rightly so. But for all those expecting perfection from the officials 100% of the time, you're bound to be disappointed. Everyone makes mistakes - big, small, embarrassing & unfortunate. It will always happen.  We need to find ways of minimising the mistakes, but you'll never eradicate them completely.

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I don't see where all this surprise at Ganson's error comes from. Although I actually think he has been one of our better officials in terms of game control and consistency of decision making over the last decade, his one major flaw has been his propensity for a gaffe in a high profile / pressure situation. Nothing sinister about it.

Whilst Ganson does have this tendency, this was a very different situation mainly because he had a few chances to look at it rather than a quickfire decision that he can't go back on. I agree it wasn't sinister though.

Personally I think the referee should be able to watch it from the pitch and be in contact with the VR, either that or a secondary official that can be in discussion with them. All it would have taken is somebody to ask whether he was looking at the right man.

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So what do you think happened?

What do you think the RFL should do to explain the situation?

And what do you think should happen as a result?

I hope these answers are as well thought out as your criticism...

I think that, despite the use of video replay technology, the game had to suffer yet another inexplicably poor decision - a decision that was so inexplicably poor and unjustifiable that a neutral observer could be forgiven for coming the the conclusion (perhaps erroneously) that something fishy might be afoot.

The RFL should publish any available evidence that explains how the video referee arrived at his decision - they should be only too happy to do this as it would remove any doubt as to how this unfortunate situation occurred and perhaps throw up suggestions regarding how a repeat might be avoided in the future.

The decision was so poor that it brings into question the appointment of the official concerned to the position of Referees Coach. Perhaps more than one pair of eyes in the video booth and a broadcast of their discussions might be a good idea for the future.

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I think that, despite the use of video replay technology, the game had to suffer yet another inexplicably poor decision - a decision that was so inexplicably poor and unjustifiable that a neutral observer could be forgiven for coming the the conclusion (perhaps erroneously) that something fishy might be afoot.

But you've not actually answered the question: what do you think actually happened?

All you've said is it was poor, unjustified and there could be something up with it.

Why do you think he made such a poor decision (since you don't like the "tracked the wrong player" comment)?

The RFL should publish any available evidence that explains how the video referee arrived at his decision - they should be only too happy to do this as it would remove any doubt as to how this unfortunate situation occurred and perhaps throw up suggestions regarding how a repeat might be avoided in the future.

What if the only evidence is speaking to Steve Ganson, which is what has happened and been published publicly?

The decision was so poor that it brings into question the appointment of the official concerned to the position of Referees Coach. Perhaps more than one pair of eyes in the video booth and a broadcast of their discussions might be a good idea for the future.

I'm sure these things will be being discussed as we speak. No decision should be made within a day or two.

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Some of the comments are laughable how they can call the RFL incompetent remember this is from a club who didn't even realize after it was too late the there new stand was the wrong colour.

Or that the king of Tonga would sort out Willie's passport.

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Personally I reckon Bitofaboogie has some very valid points, This is not about who won the game, or evening things up for last year, It's not about Greg Edens poor play, or the rivalry between the two Hull clubs, the bragging rights though totally understandable mean nothing to many people outside that city. It's not about any of that at all, It's about a completely ludicrous decision given by the referees coach ( as i understand his position to be ).

I don't know why he gave that decision, probably never will. We are told he tracked the wrong player and anyone who chooses to believe that well good luck to them, Like Bitofaboogie i prefer not to have my intelligence insulted, All i will say is that after watching that video 3 or 4 times he tracked the wrong player, then he is in the wrong job anyway.

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But you've not actually answered the question: what do you think actually happened?

All you've said is it was poor, unjustified and there could be something up with it.

Why do you think he made such a poor decision (since you don't like the "tracked the wrong player" comment)?

What if the only evidence is speaking to Steve Ganson, which is what has happened and been published publicly?

I'm sure these things will be being discussed as we speak. No decision should be made within a day or two.

I have answered the question. Perhaps it is that I have just not said what you wanted to hear? I have no idea what actually happened, it is that of which I am trying to get to the bottom. As for tracking the wrong player (whatever that means) don't you think that the video ref should be tracking every player involved (whatever that means)? 

 

If Ganson's word is the only evidence then this could go no further - you couldn't expect him to incriminate himself.

 

These things need to be sorted sooner rather than later - in my opinion they have been going on for far too long already. 

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I think Giwildgo is right in that Ganson has always been liable to drop a clanger, but the reason he does that is as true as VR as for when he was a referee: he's a smug little chap who instinctively believes he is always right. And rather than check and get simple decisions spot on, he has always thought it better to award a try quickly than faffing around consulting anyone or checking the video properly.

In a sport with a VR system (while it is an imperfect system), that lack of attention to detail is and never has been good enough.

May I ask what the Sky team / forum's opinion on the Yeaman try was, please? From my seat it looked short.

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I think Giwildgo is right in that Ganson has always been liable to drop a clanger, but the reason he does that is as true as VR as for when he was a referee: he's a smug little chap who instinctively believes he is always right. And rather than check and get simple decisions spot on, he has always thought it better to award a try quickly than faffing around consulting anyone or checking the video properly.In a sport with a VR system (while it is an imperfect system), that lack of attention to detail is and never has been good enough.May I ask what the Sky team / forum's opinion on the Yeaman try was, please? From my seat it looked short.

Ganson had plenty of looks at the replay if my memory serves me right. It wasn't a quick one look over then award the try. I agree about the Yeaman " try" though.

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The Yeaman try was clearly on the line. Grounded short initially then rolled onto the line.

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I think Giwildgo is right in that Ganson has always been liable to drop a clanger, but the reason he does that is as true as VR as for when he was a referee: he's a smug little chap who instinctively believes he is always right. And rather than check and get simple decisions spot on, he has always thought it better to award a try quickly than faffing around consulting anyone or checking the video properly.

In a sport with a VR system (while it is an imperfect system), that lack of attention to detail is and never has been good enough.

May I ask what the Sky team / forum's opinion on the Yeaman try was, please? From my seat it looked short.

 

There can be no doubt that Ganson has always been the type of referee who thinks that everyone has turned up and payed to see him perform and it is right to criticise him for this undesirable trait, however with this particular foul up there are more important factors to take into consideration, the most obvious being that this was, after all a VR decision.

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The Yeaman try was clearly on the line. Grounded short initially then rolled onto the line.

It was a try, as Stuart Cummings explained very well for those who were listening (or wanted to). 

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ganson admits he got it wrong - no sherlock ! we all know that . but explain why you got it wrong and no "i tracked the wrong player" garbage , because if thats the case you are clearly lying or extremely incompetant . in either case its time for gardening leave

there is no logical explanation for this mistake , it would be more credible and acceptable if you said "sorry boys had a brainstorm and pressed the wrong button" 

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ganson admits he got it wrong - no ###### sherlock ! we all know that .

Yet you'd be booting off if he just stayed quiet about it.

He can't win, can he?

but explain why you got it wrong and no "i tracked the wrong player" garbage

So explain why, and when you do make sure it's something really juicy otherwise I'm not interested?

The reason "why" is because he "tracked the wrong player". Whether you believe that or not doesn't negate the fact he's given an explanation as to why it happened!

He can't win, can he?

because if thats the case you are clearly lying or extremely incompetant .

This is the real issue, and people can't be blamed for coming to this conclusion, unfortunately for him! I think only a cynic would think the first (and there are a lot of them in RL, including yourself apparently). I believe him, I just don't think it's acceptable as an excuse!

in either case its time for gardening leave

there is no logical explanation for this mistake , it would be more credible and acceptable if you said "sorry boys had a brainstorm and pressed the wrong button"

So you've earlier demanded an explanation, despite getting one, accused him of lying, and now want him to only give you your version of what is an acceptable explanation (which in turn would be a lie)? Don't you see the complete hypocrisy in your suggestion?

Can't win, can he?

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Yet you'd be booting off if he just stayed quiet about it.

He can't win, can he?

So explain why, and when you do make sure it's something really juicy otherwise I'm not interested?

The reason "why" is because he "tracked the wrong player". Whether you believe that or not doesn't negate the fact he's given an explanation as to why it happened!

He can't win, can he?

This is the real issue, and people can't be blamed for coming to this conclusion, unfortunately for him! I think only a cynic would think the first (and there are a lot of them in RL, including yourself apparently). I believe him, I just don't think it's acceptable as an excuse!

So you've earlier demanded an explanation, despite getting one, accused him of lying, and now want him to only give you your version of what is an acceptable explanation (which in turn would be a lie)? Don't you see the complete hypocrisy in your suggestion?

Can't win, can he?

he could win by not making the mistake in the first place really 

and i arent being cynical - we arent talking about a ref on the field making a mistake when getting one look at at , we watched him rolling the tape back and forth on 4/5 occassions and it was clear to everyone that both the players on the halfway line were clearly offside so im sorry but it isnt acceptable that he tracked the wrong player , he even checked a couple of times to see whether the full back had touched it - that would have put them all onside so wouldent even matter who was tracked

whilst you beleive his version you also point that its unacceptable - i agree and im astounded that someone so experienced could make such an error , thats why i dont beleive it and think his excuse doesent really hold water as it would be incompetence of the highest order leaving his position untenable 

i arent suggesting he lies , im asking for the truth as i dont think anyone really can accept his version , as i said if he had come out with the wrong button theory it would have been more believable 

i know the result helped your side , maybe thats why your judgement seems clouded . i was a neutral on the game so say it as i see it and im usually a big supporter of the ref and constantly back them up on other forums where they get slated , but this incident is indefensible . with the technology we have ,we are light years in front of football with regards to right/wrong decisions but its not much use if mistakes like this are made

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and regarding the yeamen try - very hard call IMO but i thought he got it right 

looked to me like the ball was initially short but then rolled in the same movement and just touched the line 

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it was clear to everyone that both the players on the halfway line were clearly offside

Just to be clear, although Ellis was offside at the kick, it is close as to whether he was played onside by Houghton during the chase.

As to the replays, thanks to hindle we can all see exactly what Ganson saw to make his decision. First the full play, presumably this was where he somehow picked out the wrong player. He then took two different angles on the kick itself to check the onside, so my guess is he had picked out Lynch, who was onside, which these views would have confirmed. He then takes one final view of the whole play, which as he already thought he had checked offside he would have been looking at the recovery to make sure there were no errors, before checking the grounding.

So the ideas he had 4 or 5 looks is not true and though it is still difficult to see how he tracked the wrong player initially, it is not beyond reasonable that having made that mistake it would not have been picked up on the other replays. Sometimes errors come down to really simple mistakes and obvious things being overlooked but we doubt them even though there is no better explanation simply because we do not want to believe they could have happened.

And if he had said "I pressed the wrong button" we would all know that to be a blatant lie because the big screen is only used to inform the fans. The decision is first given to the referee verbally so if the wrong messages was shown it would be immediately apparent, the referee would not get clarification, not award the try, the fans will scream and boo, and the message on the big screen will be corrected.

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at 51 sec he slows it right down and both players on the halfway line are clearly offside - its impossible for an amatuer to be tracking the wrong man never mind a refs instructor - im sorry but there is no excuse whatsoever 

its either rubbish he is spouting to cover up his real reason or its incompetence of the highest level .

either one its totally unacceptable 

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Why didn't the referee pick up the forward pass under the posts just before KR's 2nd try or the forward pass for their 3rd?

at 51 sec he slows it right down and both players on the halfway line are clearly offside - its impossible for an amatuer to be tracking the wrong man never mind a refs instructor - im sorry but there is no excuse whatsoever 

its either rubbish he is spouting to cover up his real reason or its incompetence of the highest level .

either one its totally unacceptable 

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I had a cracking weekend, but for the result of course. :)

 

well we agree on one of the two things mate  :tongue: ooooh hang on I've only gone and done it again I am a prat and a sad individual for having a bit of banter on here apparently ! :ph34r:

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Gwylym Lloyd to Neil Hudgell... "Do you think this incident will galvanise you?"

 

Hudgell "Well, we're not going to feel sorry for ourselves..."

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