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The Daddy

Is anyone in favour of a national stadium for rugby league?

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Jonty has it spot on with his suggestion for a National Rugby League Centre.

 

IIRC there was a similar plan for Red Hall but it wasn't big enough, hence the football (not RL) pitches on the land out the back. No idea how much you'd get for selling that site but it would go some way towards Jonty's masterplan. Throw in some Lottery funding (every other sport seems to have a publicly-funded high performance centre of some sort) and we're getting there.

 

I don't think it's owned by the RFL, but that they have it on a cheap rental from Leeds council.

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Seem to think that the agreement at Wembley is for one flagship game per year (unspecified which) that is also a Club Wembley event, but the agreement may or may not have been renegotiated since for all we know - bear in mind it was probably pre-Richard Lewis and a very different RFL that was involved.

 

Internationals and other flagship events don't really need a national stadium. Go down the cricket route and put these out to tender. We've seen how successful this can be with the buy in from local authorities that the RLWC 2013 has had. You then can ultimately work towards a situation where much of the operational costs of test matches etc. have been covered before a ball has been passed via local authority investment. You then also have the local mailing and marketing clout of the authority to promote the event and get bums on seats.

Tendering is a good idea in theory.  The problem we have is that 'World Cup' is a good brand almost regardless of sport.  Could we *really* sell a Four Nations - given that we make up tournaments every five minutes and then discard them, but also because it's really not going to have such mass appeal.

 

As a genuine question: the ICC Champions Trophy is rocking into this country next month.  Did counties bid particularly hard to host the matches?

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We could have as many events as we could muster. The point is that money would be staying in the game as opposed to going to soccer clubs.

Does anyone have a rough idea of the money spent hiring other sports stadia every season?

A lot less than the cost of building and running a huge Wembley of the North.

The money wouldn't be staying in the game at all. It's be going to banks, councils, electric companies, builders etc etc.

Think of it this way - if you needed a van to move some stuff three or four days a year, would you buy one or hire one ?

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Tendering is a good idea in theory.  The problem we have is that 'World Cup' is a good brand almost regardless of sport.  Could we *really* sell a Four Nations - given that we make up tournaments every five minutes and then discard them, but also because it's really not going to have such mass appeal.

 

As a genuine question: the ICC Champions Trophy is rocking into this country next month.  Did counties bid particularly hard to host the matches?

I don't know about the Champions Trophy, but some counties have had problems with the tendering of Test matches. It's turned into something of a bun fight and on several occasions, having been awarded a game, counties have then handed it back once they realise they can't make the sums work.

 

In RL terms I think it could work. Having Hull, WIgan, Leeds, Huddersfield, etc fighting it out for games is certainly conceivable. You could also imagine municipal-owned stadia in other areas looking for a piece of it. I'm thinking of Coventry for starters.

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I don't know about the Champions Trophy, but some counties have had problems with the tendering of Test matches. It's turned into something of a bun fight and on several occasions, having been awarded a game, counties have then handed it back once they realise they can't make the sums work.

 

Yep, Headingley won't have done too well out of their test match this year through no fault of their own.

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I just remembered, there were plans announced sometime last year for a centre of excellence to be built in Bradford, on the site of the old Wyke school.

 

Link

 

While obviously not a stadium, it's a step forward.

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Yep, Headingley won't have done too well out of their test match this year through no fault of their own.

 

They're covered by insurance for any payouts because of rain.  The price they bid meant that they had to charge a minimum of £40 per ticket though.  They lost out on the next two Ashes tours though because they didn't bid enough.

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They're covered by insurance for any payouts because of rain.  The price they bid meant that they had to charge a minimum of £40 per ticket though.  They lost out on the next two Ashes tours though because they didn't bid enough.

 

Fair enough.  The final day's crowd was probably lower than a Leeds Tykes game.

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Tendering is a good idea in theory.  The problem we have is that 'World Cup' is a good brand almost regardless of sport.  Could we *really* sell a Four Nations - given that we make up tournaments every five minutes and then discard them, but also because it's really not going to have such mass appeal.

 

As a genuine question: the ICC Champions Trophy is rocking into this country next month.  Did counties bid particularly hard to host the matches?

Not sure about the Champions Trophy, but the tendering process operates for full Test matches, albeit with a medium/long-term contract with the venue, hence why YCCC needed investment in Headingley a few years back so the ground could bid.

 

I think the scale of a Four Nations event could be attractive, especially if the RFL still look at venues in the 25,000-40,000 range - cities big enough to have large unitary authorities and a regional profile, but small enough to be interested in an international event that has a knock on impact on the local economy. The challenge would be having the long-term planning for internationals, and all to often these appear to be back-of-the-fag packet affairs with the venue publicised months - or even weeks - beforehand. There'd need to be a two-three year lead in time as a minimum.

 

Imagine the RFL had this offer for 2016:

 

Four Nations tournament:

 

Grade one fixtures: England v Australia; England v New Zealand; England v AN Other; Final

Grade two fixtures:Australia v New Zealand (AN Other team fixtures dependent on the fourth nation)

 

Set minimum standards; launch a bid document off the back of the 2013 world cup. You'll get the usual suspects apply in the heartlands, but not necessarily a bad thing - make them earn the fixture.

 

Look for local investment in provision of facilities, community staff/programme leading up to and supporting the event legacy, match with RFL Whole Sport Plan funding

 

Unfortunately having the RLIF set out a fixtures schedule as far ahead as 2016 is as mad as an alien space bat.

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Sorry there is only one true rugby league city and thats Cod Head land. 

 

The rest of us are simply large towns with a RL majority. Small cities with a RL majority or Large cities with a large RL supporting base/team. 

Wakefield is a larger city than Hull, it's solely Rugby League, is the biggest city in the UK without football league representation, has 5 pro Rugby League clubs either within its Borough or under its WF postcode (Wakefield, Castleford, Featherstone, Dewsbury & Batley).

Wakefield pretty much much sits dead centre of the UK almost equidistant from East & West coastlines as well as North & South, it's the perfect Rugby League City for a National Stadium.

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Unfortunately having the RLIF set out a fixtures schedule as far ahead as 2016 is as mad as an alien space bat.

 

A major issue in my opinion. Your suggestion is simple in my opinion and should be done but if the RLIF can't organise dates for tournaments etc, there is no point even attempting to organise anything.

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Not sure about the Champions Trophy, but the tendering process operates for full Test matches, albeit with a medium/long-term contract with the venue, hence why YCCC needed investment in Headingley a few years back so the ground could bid.

 

I think the scale of a Four Nations event could be attractive, especially if the RFL still look at venues in the 25,000-40,000 range - cities big enough to have large unitary authorities and a regional profile, but small enough to be interested in an international event that has a knock on impact on the local economy. The challenge would be having the long-term planning for internationals, and all to often these appear to be back-of-the-fag packet affairs with the venue publicised months - or even weeks - beforehand. There'd need to be a two-three year lead in time as a minimum.

 

Imagine the RFL had this offer for 2016:

 

Four Nations tournament:

 

Grade one fixtures: England v Australia; England v New Zealand; England v AN Other; Final

Grade two fixtures:Australia v New Zealand (AN Other team fixtures dependent on the fourth nation)

 

Set minimum standards; launch a bid document off the back of the 2013 world cup. You'll get the usual suspects apply in the heartlands, but not necessarily a bad thing - make them earn the fixture.

 

Look for local investment in provision of facilities, community staff/programme leading up to and supporting the event legacy, match with RFL Whole Sport Plan funding

 

Unfortunately having the RLIF set out a fixtures schedule as far ahead as 2016 is as mad as an alien space bat.

I'm answering my own question about the ICC doodad and going to assume some kind of bidding must have happened because it's only taking place at 3 grounds: Cardiff, Birmingham and the Oval.

 

The rest of your post makes perfect sense.

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Wakefield is a larger city than Hull, it's solely Rugby League, is the biggest city in the UK without football league representation, has 5 pro Rugby League clubs either within its Borough or under its WF postcode (Wakefield, Castleford, Featherstone, Dewsbury & Batley).

Wakefield pretty much much sits dead centre of the UK almost equidistant from East & West coastlines as well as North & South, it's the perfect Rugby League City for a National Stadium.

 

Given how much trouble Trinity have had finding a suitable site for stadium within Wakefield then I'd say it's a complete non-starter.  You've used the MDC plus the postcode as boundaries to support your argument, and I think that's disingenuous as Castleford/Featherstone/Pontefract are distinctly seperated from Wakefield, perhaps even more so than Dewsbury/Batley which are under another authority anyway. 

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Oh good.

 

We can now have that discussion about what a proper rugby league town/district/village/street looks like.

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Oh good.

 

We can now have that discussion about what a proper rugby league town/district/village/street looks like.

We'll have to get through the 'Calder Valley' guff first.

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Oh good.

 

We can now have that discussion about what a proper rugby league town/district/village/street looks like.

It'll descend into stadium shapes at some point soon...

 

General note:  Please try to keep on topic rather than simply rehashing playground arguments about "my town is a better rugby town than yours"

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Given how much trouble Trinity have had finding a suitable site for stadium within Wakefield then I'd say it's a complete non-starter.  You've used the MDC plus the postcode as boundaries to support your argument, and I think that's disingenuous as Castleford/Featherstone/Pontefract are distinctly seperated from Wakefield, perhaps even more so than Dewsbury/Batley which are under another authority anyway. 

If the money's there the site found for Wakefields stadium is suitable and the existing plans include provision for expansion. The only reason it was difficult to find a site was money, the perfect place is Denby Dale Rd near Pugneys where YCCC were once going to move to. That wasn't financially feasible for Wakefoeld because the lands owned by Peel and they want top dollar for it, a National Governing body looking to build a landmark stadium would be more appealing to Peel and have more money for the project.

I quoted only facts re Wakefield as a city, a location, a borough and a post code area why is that a problem?

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It'll descend into stadium shapes at some point soon...

 

General note:  Please try to keep on topic rather than simply rehashing playground arguments about "my town is a better rugby town than yours"

Why is the location of a potential new National stadium not on topic

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Why is the location of a potential new National stadium not on topic

The question was around whether a national stadium should be built rather than where.  Also, you could build the thing anywhere 10 miles either side of the M62 and you'd probably get the same attendances.  As long as it's built in the heartlands somewhere, top-end road and rail infrastructures are more important than how puritan the supporters are.

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Wakefield is a larger city than Hull, it's solely Rugby League, is the biggest city in the UK without football league representation, has 5 pro Rugby League clubs either within its Borough or under its WF postcode (Wakefield, Castleford, Featherstone, Dewsbury & Batley).

Wakefield pretty much much sits dead centre of the UK almost equidistant from East & West coastlines as well as North & South, it's the perfect Rugby League City for a National Stadium.

I think Wakefield and its hinterland are pretty well represented in the football league via leeds united.

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I was discussing this with my wife recently.  If I was a billionaire, or even a very many millionaire, I'd build this and let the RFL use it for free. 

 

RL folk probably wouldn't like it though.

 

I'm not going to that new stadium, me.  Tonka's a billionaire not a proper RL fan, the stadium's too far from Hull/Wigan/wherever for us to get there for the game, it's not in Yorkshire, it's not in Lancashire, the kick off times are wrong, he's pandering to SKY/the Big Four (whoever they are), RL is f*cked anyway without P&R or proper internationals, the stadium is too cavernous, it's not big enough, ticket pricing is all wrong, the staff at the ground were rude and I was searched on the way in, I'm not paying £2.50 for a pie, there's no atmosphere, it's in the middle of nowhere, bring back GB, Lancs v Yorks War of the Roses. 

 

Christ I don't think I'm going to bother.

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I think Wakefield and its hinterland are pretty well represented in the football league via leeds united.

Leeds has nothing to do with Wakefield

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I think Wakefield and its hinterland are pretty well represented in the football league via leeds united.

 

Yeah, some mates from when I was at uni are from Wakefield and they are massive Leeds Utd fans but don't follow the rugby at all.  All football and cricket to them.

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A lot less than the cost of building and running a huge Wembley of the North.

The money wouldn't be staying in the game at all. It's be going to banks, councils, electric companies, builders etc etc.

Think of it this way - if you needed a van to move some stuff three or four days a year, would you buy one or hire one ?

If i knew I needed a van several times a year for the next 50 years, then I'd seriously consider buying one. I'd then look to see whether my family and friends needed to use it and help offset the cost.

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If i knew I needed a van several times a year for the next 50 years, then I'd seriously consider buying one. I'd then look to see whether my family and friends needed to use it and help offset the cost.

We're not talking about a van. A van will sit outside your house and cost you nothing when you aren't using it (except for Road Tax that we don't call Road Tax any more). We're talking about a huge stadium that needs constant maintenance.

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