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Bedford Roughyed

Badger Cull starts on Saturday

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I say cull any living creature who lives north of the watford gap:)))))

CM

Is that you giving away UKIP's electoral strategy?

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I agree with Wolford that unless you have a good knowledge of rural affairs then its not good enough to be against the cull on the basis that they are perceived to be cute (which they are not) and fury. I'm undecided on whether the cull is a good idea and whether it will solve the TB problem. There is evidence on both sides of the argument to support their respective claims.

 

So if you do have a good knowledge of rural affairs then you can be against the cull on the basis they are cute?  ;)

 

Seriously, any decision to cull should be made on the basis of science. Around these parts, and in the absence of any natural predators, deer are regularly culled in substantial numbers. Granted the proposal for dealing with badgers is for different reasons - the health of agricultural livestock rather than the overall health of the targeted species - but such a widespread slaughter should only be undertaken if there is no alternative. 

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such a widespread slaughter should only be undertaken if there is no alternative. 

 

I could do with a shaving brush.

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How long before we start on other species.  The red kite say - reintroduced and now thriving just north of Leeds, and apparently swooping down early mornings on leftover burgers and pizzas in Leeds city centre, presumably if they are too successful they'll be deemed a pest and culled.

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How long before we start on other species.  The red kite say - reintroduced and now thriving just north of Leeds, and apparently swooping down early mornings on leftover burgers and pizzas in Leeds city centre, presumably if they are too successful they'll be deemed a pest and culled.

 

 

Damn things like nothing better than picking off a tired racing pigeon.

 

They even attack small dogs.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/petshealth/9228685/Red-Kite-tries-to-fly-off-with-handbag-sized-Pomeranian-toy-dog.html

 

The cull can't come quick enough for me.

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How long before we start on other species.  The red kite say - reintroduced and now thriving just north of Leeds, and apparently swooping down early mornings on leftover burgers and pizzas in Leeds city centre, presumably if they are too successful they'll be deemed a pest and culled.

 

Not quite the same thing, unless  they are proven to be swooping down on cattle and spreading bovine TB, I guess.  

 

and then this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6547973.stm  Bovine TB 'can spread in humans'

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How long before we start on other species.  The red kite say - reintroduced and now thriving just north of Leeds, and apparently swooping down early mornings on leftover burgers and pizzas in Leeds city centre, presumably if they are too successful they'll be deemed a pest and culled.

 

Kites lived in town and city centres in the past in this country. They are scavengers and they are very easy to kill, as they fly slowly. They were eradicated from most of Britain in the past, presumably because they were seen as pests.

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So if you do have a good knowledge of rural affairs then you can be against the cull on the basis they are cute?  ;)

 

Seriously, any decision to cull should be made on the basis of science. Around these parts, and in the absence of any natural predators, deer are regularly culled in substantial numbers. Granted the proposal for dealing with badgers is for different reasons - the health of agricultural livestock rather than the overall health of the targeted species - but such a widespread slaughter should only be undertaken if there is no alternative. 

 

Deer are being culled in quite a lot of the country currently, particularly species such as muntjac. Most of this, outside of Scotland, is done on the quiet. It is estimated, but hard to prove, that there are more deer in this country now, than at any time since the middle ages.

 

BTW, many deer carry TB.

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Most of the scientists that are reported to have researched this, question the efficacy of culling, owing to factors, such as the movement of animals into the territories in which the creatures have been culled. Most recommend vaccination and great care with the movement of cattle, which is seen as a significant factor in the spread of infection. Some farmers regard being very careful about cattle feed being accessible to any other creatures as important in reducing the risk of TB. Other factors such as getting rid of hedgerows and walls, and creating large fields have helped the spread of TB  in herds.

 

AAT Many cats have the bovine form of TB.

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Most of the scientists that are reported to have researched this, question the efficacy of culling, owing to factors, such as the movement of animals into the territories in which the creatures have been culled. Most recommend vaccination and great care with the movement of cattle, which is seen as a significant factor in the spread of infection. Some farmers regard being very careful about cattle feed being accessible to any other creatures as important in reducing the risk of TB. Other factors such as getting rid of hedgerows and walls, and creating large fields have helped the spread of TB  in herds.

 

AAT Many cats have the bovine form of TB.

 

are you quite sure of this?  It's not another Dr. Andrew Wakefield moment is it? Humans can and do catch TB from infected cattle

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Deer are being culled in quite a lot of the country currently, particularly species such as muntjac. Most of this, outside of Scotland, is done on the quiet. It is estimated, but hard to prove, that there are more deer in this country now, than at any time since the middle ages.

 

BTW, many deer carry TB.

 

I can believe that, they seem to be everywhere!

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Why don't we see venison more readily available in butchers/supermarkets? I know it's fairly easy to get venison but not to the extent of beef, pork etc.

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are you quite sure of this?  It's not another Dr. Andrew Wakefield moment is it? Humans can and do catch TB from infected cattle

 

Certainly when I was a kid the silver top milk used to say "tuberculin tested" on the silver foil.

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are you quite sure of this?  It's not another Dr. Andrew Wakefield moment is it? Humans can and do catch TB from infected cattle

 

No, I have never had a Dr Wakefield moment. Yes, I am sure and it has been the subject of academic reports for many years. The reports don't make for light reading though.

 

Needless to say this is not a simple matter. There are other criticisms of culls, including the fact that they are very expensive for the benefit obtained and they don't deal with other factors in the case of TB, such as poor farming and animal transport practices.

 

If you spend a bit of time researching the incidence and nature  of illness and infection in farm animals you may well come across information that surprises you, or maybe turns your stomach, depending on your sensitivities, eg concerning the amount of pus in milk............ Enjoy, as they say these days.... :ph34r:

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 Many cats have the bovine form of TB.

 

Now we are talking.

;):ph34r:

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plenty of dead badgers here in Lincs. they seem to be suicidal, hurling themselves in front of cars and trucks at night. There are clearly issues with the effectiveness of culling, hence the pilot schemes - which themselves have issues. Nevertheless , the evidence from Ireland points to probable success, as has already been pointed out. There is no right answer, not until an effective vaccine comes along.

 

There was a programme on R4 the other week in which some boffin explained that badger culling improves the situation in the short term but caused all the badgers to move about in response to the changes in their territories, making the problem worse in the long term.

 

Something like that anyway.

 

Personally, I'm not sure why this is an emotive issue.   It either works or it doesn't.  So do it or not.

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By and large, townies should accept that they don't understand the country and should stay out of rural concerns.

 

After all, the farming industry does a wonderful job of being sustainable and profitable.

 

Just a thought - maybe you should listen to "townies" because

 

1. They are your customers

2. Some of them are quite clever

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I knocked a badger over once on the A64 (complete accident). It was pretty scary, it went with a right crunch

 

Top comment.

 

Is it bad that I laughed?

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The key question is surely whether badger tastes as good as horse.

 

Difficult to know.   I had a very cheap beef and onion pie last week and it was fine but it didn't say if it was horse or badger.

 

Or human...

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After all, the farming industry does a wonderful job of being sustainable and profitable.

 

Just a thought - maybe you should listen to "townies" because

 

1. They are your customers

2. Some of them are quite clever

 

1. I'm not in the farming business, I just come from a rural area.

2. So are the chaps at Defra .... er, no, oh God, come to think of it, the Defra Environmental team is just a bunch of useless EC Quislings. :sclerosis:

 

I think maybe you're right.

:D

 

 

We'll have to ask Shami Chakrarbarti; she always knows what's best for us on everything. It's just a shame she's generally too shy to put her views forward.

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 cute (which they are not) and fury.

TBF if someone was trying to kill me I'd be pretty annoyed too.

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No, I have never had a Dr Wakefield moment. Yes, I am sure and it has been the subject of academic reports for many years. The reports don't make for light reading though.

 

Needless to say this is not a simple matter. There are other criticisms of culls, including the fact that they are very expensive for the benefit obtained and they don't deal with other factors in the case of TB, such as poor farming and animal transport practices.

 

If you spend a bit of time researching the incidence and nature  of illness and infection in farm animals you may well come across information that surprises you, or maybe turns your stomach, depending on your sensitivities, eg concerning the amount of pus in milk............ Enjoy, as they say these days.... :ph34r:

 

not suggesting you had. I was referring to the stance of the anti-cull arguers. 

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not suggesting you had. I was referring to the stance of the anti-cull arguers. 

 

 

I know. The analogy doesn't really work,as many of the opponents of culling support vaccination. The debate has been going on for many years with a lot of lobbying from the anti-cull side and the representatives of the farmers. A lot of the delay is about MPs and the government not being able to satisfy the vociferous lobbyists, so repeatedly kicking it into the long grass. Politicians know that people in this country get very exercised to do with many issues concerning animals and animal welfare. Something needs to be done about TB in cattle of course and it must be desperately sad for farmers to have their herds slaughtered. Agreeing what the action needs to be, is what the debate is about. I expect there will be some of the familiar intimidation methods employed by animal rights extremists used against the people involved in the cull and their families in coming months.

 

There are a lot of badgers (Meles meles) about these days and badger baiting still goes on. I see badgers quite a bit and they visit my garden; they can make quite a mess through their digging for worms. I'd guess that if you eat one it would have a pretty earthy flavour, given their diet. Badgers are a member of the mustelidae family of mammals, or weasels, as they are more generally known. There are a small number of ginger badgers. That's probably more than anyone wanted to know about badgers, so I'll leave it there.

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I know. The analogy doesn't really work,as many of the opponents of culling support vaccination. The debate has been going on for many years with a lot of lobbying from the anti-cull side and the representatives of the farmers. A lot of the delay is about MPs and the government not being able to satisfy the vociferous lobbyists, so repeatedly kicking it into the long grass. Politicians know that people in this country get very exercised to do with many issues concerning animals and animal welfare. Something needs to be done about TB in cattle of course and it must be desperately sad for farmers to have their herds slaughtered. Agreeing what the action needs to be, is what the debate is about. I expect there will be some of the familiar intimidation methods employed by animal rights extremists used against the people involved in the cull and their families in coming months.

 

There are a lot of badgers (Meles meles) about these days and badger baiting still goes on. I see badgers quite a bit and they visit my garden; they can make quite a mess through their digging for worms. I'd guess that if you eat one it would have a pretty earthy flavour, given their diet. Badgers are a member of the mustelidae family of mammals, or weasels, as they are more generally known. There are a small number of ginger badgers. That's probably more than anyone wanted to know about badgers, so I'll leave it there.

 

you've done it now!  the ginger badger liberation front will be up in arms!  In referring to Andrew Wakefileed I was thinking of how something apparently scientifically researched but flawed lured some into inaction that had negative consequnces down the line.

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