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Leigh Centurions

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You have been away too long Lobby.

 5000 is prudent, 7000 is achievable

7,000 is the figure that Castleford can't survive on, 7,500 is the figure that HKR cannot survive on and they did spend full cap for several years.

I suggest if you want to get real check out Widnes's crowds.

When both clubs were in SL they got 6,800 against Leigh's 4,700.

Widnes's crowds last year did not get back to that figure, they got 6,000.

As you say Lobby has been away too long. I suspect Leigh would have a stadium effect and would get 4500-6000 at best.

Problem is they do not qualify for SL as they have no money, are at time 1,000 short on the fans criteria of 2,500 and they don't have a youth development system, they are part of Wigans aren't they?

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7,000 is the figure that Castleford can't survive on, 7,500 is the figure that HKR cannot survive on and they did spend full cap for several years.

I suggest if you want to get real check out Widnes's crowds.

When both clubs were in SL they got 6,800 against Leigh's 4,700.

Widnes's crowds last year did not get back to that figure, they got 6,000.

As you say Lobby has been away too long. I suspect Leigh would have a stadium effect and would get 4500-6000 at best.

Problem is they do not qualify for SL as they have no money, are at time 1,000 short on the fans criteria of 2,500 and they don't have a youth development system, they are part of Wigans aren't they

You can add Wakefield, London, probably Toulouse,Huddersfield and Salford to the list of teams who can't average 7,000 and need the help of an investor to survive in SL.

 

This leaves a fragile Bradford, Catalans, Hull, Leeds, Saints, Warrington and Wigan who do average above that magic 7,000 and propsper in SL. that's a 7 ( seven ) team league.

 

Does it not suggest to you, because it does to me, that the slary cap should be lowered to the point where clubs averaging in the 7,000 area can be a viable, functioning entity in SL ? Even to the most aredent reductionista out there a 7 team league is not big enough.

 

If this is done leigh, Halifax, Featherstone and all the current SL teams who do not average 7,000 can step to the party and the league can be bigger and more stable to the benefit of all the game and not be confined to the top 7.

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Salary cap should be raised not lowered, historical debt can strangle clubs especially if they are operating in stadia that suck cash to meet standards

Glad you know about the cash situation now parky and as you agree 5000 is prudent 7000 achievable

In a licence run today we walk in

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Salary cap should be raised not lowered, historical debt can strangle clubs especially if they are operating in stadia that suck cash to meet standards

Glad you know about the cash situation now parky and as you agree 5000 is prudent 7000 achievable

In a licence run today we walk in

Do you have an official position or place of authority/influence at your club?

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Glad you know about the cash situation now parky and as you agree 5000 is prudent 7000 achievable

In a licence run today we walk in

I'd love to agree with everyone who has hopes and wishes for their club but I prefer to look to debate reality.

If Leigh's business plan without a rich man putting wads in will work on 6,000 crowds say, then please set out how that will work because the answer could save a lot of SL clubs money and improve the league.

You may also be able to answer how Leigh will have a credible player production system as well, that will be hard to do on Wigans' doorstep and hard given VW's view of the lack of players in and around Leigh for Easts and miners juniors?

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ha ha ha.....

The clubs who achieved large growth with new stadia were big clubs not a small town club.

What crowds do Widnes get in their smart new stadia? 4,600 against Les Cats.

What crowd did the mighty Fartown turn up at their wonderful stadia? 5,000??

Winning matches primarily draws the fans

You also assume the 4700 who witnessed Leigh collapse in 2005 are all going to come back. As you can see above despite Leigh being a very successful CC club and having a great stadia crowds have been steadily dropping.

But of course that us due to P & R I know.

 

Firstly do you consider Huddersfield to be a good sized town on RL terms.? If so how do you explain their low crowds given stadium, winning team, population base all being positives. things are not always as simple as they seem.

 

Perpignan on a similar population for instance draws a bigger crowd. Maybe it's the soccer team in Huddersfield which skews the Giants attendances ?

 

When Leigh were last in SL did the surrounding teams, Saints, Wigan, Warrington and yes Widnes, have the attendnances they have today. I think they are larger now. Therefore if Leigh were to return to SL, I would expect the following re their attendances

 

1. The citizens of Leigh would turn out in somewhat greater numbers to support their team in SL as opposed to the Championships

 

2. The derby games against those big Lancs SL outfits would probably hit the 6 to 7, 000 level. this should bring up their overall average. Even the games against some big Yorks teams might also pull in bigger crowds, Leeds and Hull come to mind, if theye were in the top section of the league as they usually are.

 

Whether such crowds would be enough to sustain a SL club would also depend on other factors such as slary cap, sponsors, investors etc as is the case with all but the big 6 or so top teams.

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We have people playing the sport in sufficient quantities within a small radius to establish a system within a year, we will not be of the Wigan saints wire standard and probably never will be, but that can be said for most current SL clubs

To answer Langelo I am the £81m lottery winner

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I think they are larger now. Therefore if Leigh were to return to SL, I would expect the following re their attendances, The citizens of Leigh would turn out in somewhat greater numbers to support their team in SL as opposed to the Championships

Cut the wishful thinking and back that up.

Show me how much Salfords crowds have been boosted by being close to Saints, Wigan and Wire?

Don't forget they averaged 5,000 last year.

Show me how Widnes have fared since they were invited to "turn out in somewhat greater numbers for SL".

As VW said the Catalans crowd last week (no away support) revealed a 4,500 fan base.

Go on then??

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We have people playing the sport in sufficient quantities within a small radius to establish a system within a year, we will not be of the Wigan saints wire standard and probably never will be.

Scraping up 25 kids a year from Easts/Miners and players the other Lancashire clubs didn't want, to say you have a player production line is disingenuous, as is the excuse that other SL clubs are poor at this. On this basis they should not be in SL anyway.

Fair play to your admission you won;t be able to compete with the curent SL academies. That will however leave you building your SL teams from cast offs. You won;t build a crowd coming bottom all the time. Salford and Widnes didn't.

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We have people playing the sport in sufficient quantities within a small radius to establish a system within a year, we will not be of the Wigan saints wire standard and probably never will be, but that can be said for most current SL clubs

To answer Langelo I am the £81m lottery winner

That doesn't answer me at all

Si you have no intention if striving towards matching Wigan or Warrington

Dies this mean your ambition is just to make up the numbers? Even the clubs who are doing that at the moment are working towards something better than that

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That doesn't answer me at all

Si you have no intention if striving towards matching Wigan or Warrington

Dies this mean your ambition is just to make up the numbers? Even the clubs who are doing that at the moment are working towards something better than that

Are they really? Or are you believing the sound bytes

The best kids will always migrate to the best clubs, this means the best clubs will always have the best academies. To compete to have the best academy's you must first become a top 6 club

I would welcome the day we have 12 clubs pulling in 15000 gates with superb and evenly matched academies. If ever that day arrived my club would not be feasting at the top table but neither would most current SL clubs and I would be delighted that our sport had started to reach its potential

I live in a real world and believe you deal with the current before entering fairyland

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Cut the wishful thinking and back that up.

Show me how much Salfords crowds have been boosted by being close to Saints, Wigan and Wire?

Don't forget they averaged 5,000 last year.

Show me how Widnes have fared since they were invited to "turn out in somewhat greater numbers for SL".

As VW said the Catalans crowd last week (no away support) revealed a 4,500 fan base.

Go on then??

 

 

I am not going to do any in depth analysis but on elevation/promotion to SL from a lower tier, I cannot think of one team, including Leigh, who did not have bigger attendances than in their previous lower division season. If you can find such an instance, i will stand corrected. in other words, you back up your statement.

 

I think and, once again, i am not going to delve deply into statistics, that year after year Salford got their bigger attendances when playing near SL neighbours in the likwes of Wigan, Warrington and Saints. If you think that is wrong put up or shut up.

 

I will guarantee you that if all Salford's fixtures had been against London, Catalans, Castleford and Wakefield their attendances would have averaged considerably less than they have done when the big Lancs SL teams have been on the fixture list.

 

Widnes attendances have increased year on year since their return to SL at the last licencing period. They did not draw better crowds in the Championship than they do now and to cite the Catalans game is disingenous. One of the main points of my thread re Leigh's attendances was that their crowds would benefit from derby games against other SL opposition. Even you could not class a fixture against Catalans as a derby game.

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Are they really? Or are you believing the sound bytes

The best kids will always migrate to the best clubs, this means the best clubs will always have the best academies. To compete to have the best academy's you must first become a top 6 club

I would welcome the day we have 12 clubs pulling in 15000 gates with superb and evenly matched academies. If ever that day arrived my club would not be feasting at the top table but neither would most current SL clubs and I would be delighted that our sport had started to reach its potential

I live in a real world and believe you deal with the current before entering fairyland

No I don't believe in sounds or bytes

I do believe that you enter a competition then you should strive to excel in it rather than see mediocrity as your goal

I doubt whether the mediocre clubs in SL at the moment are happy with that situation

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No I don't believe in sounds or bytes

I do believe that you enter a competition then you should strive to excel in it rather than see mediocrity as your goal

I doubt whether the mediocre clubs in SL at the moment are happy with that situation

 

I think they are very happy with that situation owd cockle, otherwise they would increase the cap and welcome straight p&r.

Let the sheeite sink and the cream rise

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No I don't believe in sounds or bytes

I do believe that you enter a competition then you should strive to excel in it rather than see mediocrity as your goal

I doubt whether the mediocre clubs in SL at the moment are happy with that situation

Then you shod be against licensing as this encourages mediocrity at the bottom of SL and the second division. Remember Widnes being promoted under licensing as a mediocre team who half arsed their way through the division after winning the NR cup

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Then you shod be against licensing as this encourages mediocrity at the bottom of SL and the second division. Remember Widnes being promoted under licensing as a mediocre team who half arsed their way through the division after winning the NR cup

There was plenty of mediocrity and worse during the days of p and r your club being a classic example

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There was plenty of mediocrity and worse during the days of p and r your club being a classic example

At least there were glory days. Remember 81/82 for Leigh, 82-83 for Fev.....,,

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I am not going to do any in depth analysis i am not going to delve deply into statistics,

You don't need to.

The simple figures I gave you show your wrong and the big clubs don't boost the smaller clubs crowds in the wishful thinking way you want to think they do.

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At least there were glory days. Remember 81/82 for Leigh, 82-83 for Fev.....,,

Featherstone were lucky to escape relegation that year: so we had a cup run and all those juicy relegation battles attendances averaged 2,600

How does that and Leigh's brief brush with glory stack up against the rest? What was the cumulative effect on the centurions of being the most notorious yo yo club in the game ?

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I think leigh had 3/4 10000 gates that year

testimony to the away following of your near neighbours.

on the whole how did your club fare under the 20 odd years of auto prom and reg? Presumably it flourished as a sporting organisation under a system you approve of.

 

I'm still interested to know what you mean bout Hilton Park' 'unsuitability for big gates' being an element in the club's historic poor attendances.

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I think leigh had 3/4 10000 gates that year

They had two in the cup.

None in the league.

Even Hunslet had a 10,000 plus cup gate around that time........

The league crowds were 4-5000

But as the season progressed and Leigh kept on winning then finished on a 6,000 average.

That was many years ago.

The best comparisons for Leigh aren't two generations ago, it's probably Widnes's crowds IMHO

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We have people playing the sport in sufficient quantities within a small radius to establish a system within a year, we will not be of the Wigan saints wire standard and probably never will be, but that can be said for most current SL clubs

To answer Langelo I am the £81m lottery winner

no you're not! The winner is from soddin rawmarsh .... and it's not me!!!

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You don't need to.

The simple figures I gave you show your wrong and the big clubs don't boost the smaller clubs crowds in the wishful thinking way you want to think they do.

 

Are you telling me that leigh V Wigan will not draw a bigger crowd than Leigh V Keighley. Are you telling Widnes v saints or V Warrington will n ot draw bigger crowds than Widnes V Barrow or Widnes v Dewsbury.

 

Are telling me that Salford V Wigan will not draw a bigger crowd than Salford v swinton and that's a derby game.

 

As, usual,if any poster is pushing the prospects of a power tier club against a SL outfit, you will indulge in wishful thinking to the nth dgree.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you ,as usual, are the one indulging in wishful thinking.

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