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flyingking

Toulouse think they will hear about Superleague decision soon

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but more revenue from gate money? it's up to red hall to sell the game much better than they do at present and start by gettting a competition sponsor on board.....the administrators of our game are miles behind union at attracting revenue.

It's up to clubs to market themselves.

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The chances of London in any of their incarnations being dropped out of SL are so low that they're nearly non-existent.  Regardless of what some people want, and call their wishes "rumours", London is too strategically important to abandon.  While London is in existence in a franchised SL, it's an England-wide sport; drop them and it becomes a northern sport again with a couple of French exile clubs.

 

As much as I'd like to see a top-flight Toulouse, they bring nothing to the table.  Sky don't care about French TV, lose an English club and they'll see less value for money.  French TV, as mentioned above, just don't care enough to pay money, they might be convinced to pay for the two French "derby" games but that's it.  Sky have shown that they'll happily walk away from things if a sport tries to blackmail them into paying more for less, RU have noticed that this year when their premiership final was only shown on ESPN where it was unadvertised by the dying channel with no chances of neutral fans even knowing it was on.

 

I'd love to see France strong in RL but the only way they'll ever do it is to create their own league rather than expect to displace English sides in SL as they develop more pro-ready teams, first Catalans, now Toulouse, then you get to the other clubs that are starting to demand attention.  Either that or follow the RU example where the countries that can't stand up their own pro league mix together, Italy, Wales, Ireland and Scotland in that Celtic League (or whatever it's called this year).  SL has given French RL a vital and critical crutch to get started with Catalans, time maybe for them to stand on their own feet if they're strong enough.

This

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how about including toulouse and featherstone and making it a 16 team competition like the nrl????? or is that too simple for wood and rimmer to comprehend?????

 

I'd rather have P&R to be honest

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how about including toulouse and featherstone and making it a 16 team competition like the nrl????? or is that too simple for wood and rimmer to comprehend?????

Apparently stretching resources by expanding a league that is already struggling financially is too simple for the administrators to comprehend?

Or perhaps they just didn't even think about it seeing as it's not a viable option!

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SL has given French RL a vital and critical crutch to get started with Catalans, time maybe for them to stand on their own feet if they're strong enough.

Well I'm sure a league of two would do wonder for the French game...

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I'd rather have P&R to be honest

A 16 team league with Toulouse and Fev/Leigh/Sheffield/Fax AND 2up/down P&R (French clubs exempt) would be awreet wi me. Then expand to 18 by 2020 with two extra French teams.

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A 16 team league with Toulouse and Fev/Leigh/Sheffield/Fax AND 2up/down P&R (French clubs exempt) would be awreet wi me. Then expand to 18 by 2020 with two extra French teams.

Then watch all the teams going into admin for having little money coming in...

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Then watch all the teams going into admin for having little money coming in...

I understand what you are saying but if clubs cut their cloth this wont happen. Everyone will be in the same boat

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I understand what you are saying but if clubs cut their cloth this wont happen. Everyone will be in the same boat

Some clubs don't need to cut their cloth, they'll spend the full cap anyway; others will revert to a mix of full and part-time players.

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Sky are the only bidders for the contract so they pay what they feel like paying. And that's the minimum that allows for a full-time competition. So the exact make-up of the league doesn't matter very much as long as (advertising revenue)>(minimum to keep full time league).

 

And yes advertising revenue might be higher if we had a successful London side but it isn't i they are on their ###### all the time.  

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We seem to have no strategy at all within RL. Catalans model is different to Toulouse's. Any new club should enter via Championship 1 no matter where they are from.

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I just don't get what the benefit to SL is.

 

Toulouse will not add value to the Sky contract, Sky do not operate in France. Can't see them being too pleased. 

 

Toulouse's fans will not travel in numbers to the UK, depressing crowd numbers further.  Can't see club chairmen being too pleased.

 

Toulouse won't attract sponsorship to the game in general, two different markets and two different languages.

 

Toulouse aren't an expansion club, like Catalan they are "M62 Francais"

 

 

Someone help me out and detail what they bring to the table.

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I just don't get what the benefit to SL is.

 

Toulouse will not add value to the Sky contract, Sky do not operate in France. Can't see them being too pleased. 

 

Toulouse's fans will not travel in numbers to the UK, depressing crowd numbers further.  Can't see club chairmen being too pleased.

 

Toulouse won't attract sponsorship to the game in general, two different markets and two different languages.

 

Toulouse aren't an expansion club, like Catalan they are "M62 Francais"

 

 

Someone help me out and detail what they bring to the table.

There is the potential for a new source of income via a French TV deal.

 

There is the potential for a new source of income via sponsors (union's Euro comps bring in cross-nation sponsors).

 

There is the potential for another competitive team, which SL is sadly lacking.

 

There is the potential for another competitive international team for England to play against.

 

Just off the top of my head. 

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Toulouse aren't an expansion club, like Catalan they are "M62 Francais"

But that's why Catalans worked. Should we only have expansion clubs that fail?

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There is the potential for a new source of income via a French TV deal.

 

There is the potential for a new source of income via sponsors (union's Euro comps bring in cross-nation sponsors).

 

There is the potential for another competitive team, which SL is sadly lacking.

 

There is the potential for another competitive international team for England to play against.

 

Just off the top of my head. 

 

Thanks for that, I get that there is potential for a French TV deal, but I worry that what we gain there might be lost when Sky re-negotiate, they're not going to sell any dishes in Toulouse and might lose a few at home.

 

I hope you're right about cross border sponsorship, personally I can't see it in the near future.

 

I agree that a new competitive team is needed in SL, wherever it may come from.

 

I also see that it will over time strengthen the French national team, which can only be a good thing.

 

 

I'm not against Toulouse (or any other European team) joining SL per se. Just worried that the perceived benefits might be drowned out by what I think are real risks associated with the move.

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But that's why Catalans worked. Should we only have expansion clubs that fail?

 

No not in the slightest, I'm trying to get my head around what they bring to the table, versus what could be lost to the table by including them.

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No not in the slightest, I'm trying to get my head around what they bring to the table, versus what could be lost to the table by including them.

Not very much initially but potentially a great deal. I know this is said of London as well but they have had their chance to deliver on their potential and failed. Toulouse have yet to fail.

 

But I don't get the French M62 thing. Catalans are a pro side but there was no pro side in Perpignon - that's expansion. There is no pro side in Toulouse either. What we do have is a lot of the things that will help a pro side survive - and yet seemingly you are against these things.

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Ok first post guys so go easy on me but this thread led me to signing up !

For clarity, the argument about another French club reducing RL Sky Broadcasting Rights is a moot point.

Sky pay £x per year for x number of games. Sky have built in to their contract that the league must contain a certain minimum number of teams, I seem to recall the minimum is 12 from recollection, however, the geographical positioning of those teams is not specified.

The key driver for Sky's broadcoasting rights value is competitive games = increased viewing figures = subscriptions = better programming sponsorship. Sky want a product that is ultimately revenue generating for them. If the pool of English clubs from which Sky can pick from reduces by 1, it is unlikely to have any bearing on the underlying value (of the broadcasting agreement) unless Toulouse are a complete "turkey on the field" and everybody switches off. In this scenario, Toulouse are likely to be less attractive and Sky would pick alternative games (not featuing Toulouse) in future weeks.

The only bearing which another French club would have on the Sky agreement would be if a French TV network demanded (and were granted) pan-European exclusivity on the two French clubs matches. In practice, this is unlikely to happen given the scalability of RL (which is small) therefore in practice Sky would use their cameras and vica versa for highlights, live games (i.e. simulcast, which is common in Austrailia particularly for AFL).

This is how broadcoasting works for percieved smaller sports like ours.

If Toulouse genuinely have the money, sponsors, TV, potential crowds / supporters, then the RFL are responsible for making sure they undertake extensive due diligence on them to prove it (or have a financial guarantee in place if they dont). This means a proper process not a farsical sham like we have seen with the Crusaders.

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Thanks for that, I get that there is potential for a French TV deal, but I worry that what we gain there might be lost when Sky re-negotiate, they're not going to sell any dishes in Toulouse and might lose a few at home.

 

I hope you're right about cross border sponsorship, personally I can't see it in the near future.

 

I agree that a new competitive team is needed in SL, wherever it may come from.

 

I also see that it will over time strengthen the French national team, which can only be a good thing.

 

 

I'm not against Toulouse (or any other European team) joining SL per se. Just worried that the perceived benefits might be drowned out by what I think are real risks associated with the move.

I'm intrigued here, because I'd be interested to know what you think the risks are. For me, France is something we absolutely have to make progress with.

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Also, it's a perception issue.  Try selling the credibility of rugby league if it's entrenched in the north with a couple of French clubs.  It's an open goal for anyone who wants to have a go at us.

Just to be clear, we are a sport that has to invent a team to be able to play an international, in a 15,00 capacity stadium which is still more than the fixture has ever attracted, but at least no one can mock us because we have a token presence playing the worst football in the league in front of next to nobody.

You can just as easily knock the game because of the current state of the Broncos every bit as much as you could if they were not in Super League.

But any sport which makes decisions on the basis of trying to prevent people have a go at it deserves to be mocked, although it would only be short lived because it would have no chance of surviving.

Also, everything else you said was wrong too.

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I just don't understand how the league will be perceived as an M62 sport any more than it already is if Toulouse replace London. There will still be two clubs outside the M62.

The Broncos are failing as a SL club. It's there for all to see.

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If Toulouse genuinely have the money, sponsors, TV, potential crowds / supporters, then the RFL are responsible for making sure they undertake extensive due diligence on them to prove it (or have a financial guarantee in place if they dont). This means a proper process not a farsical sham like we have seen with the Crusaders.

Welcome to the board but I don't welcome you singling out Crusaders.

How about the license given to Bradford Bulls??

How about the license given to Castleford??

These clubs didn't have the resources to compete yet got a licence, so why do Toulouse have to pass a much sterner test??

Is it cos they is French?

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I'm intrigued here, because I'd be interested to know what you think the risks are. For me, France is something we absolutely have to make progress with.

There are no risks any greater than accepting clubs like Cas, Quins, Widnes, Salford and Wakefield who were all graded third rate each with a "C" license. Indeed "B" rated Bradford went belly up, and salford collapsed. It's OK to "take risks" with M62 clubs but you can't trust Johnny Foreigner.

If new SL clubs outside the heartlands are impossible to create, then naturally Toulouse as a french heartland club are pretty much an automatic pick, especially to revive proper international RL.

If they did go bust trying to be an SL club then they can join a long list of clubs who have done the same, only they won't, because clubs outside the M62 are erm "different"

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Welcome to the board but I don't welcome you singling out Crusaders.

How about the license given to Bradford Bulls??

How about the license given to Castleford??

These clubs didn't have the resources to compete yet got a licence, so why do Toulouse have to pass a much sterner test??

Is it cos they is French?

I think much of it is them saying in that article that if they get a "yes" then they'll invest whereas the current Championship clubs have to get their affairs in order first.

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