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French RL Elite One at crisis point

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See, this is what I worry about with Toulouse. The Marie (?) will supposedly be big funders for Toulouse in SL. But is there a contract, a guaranteed level of funding for x years? Otherwise who can say that the next Mayor won't pull the plug or somesuch?

Who can say Neil Hudgell, Jack Fulton or Jack Wilkinson will not pull the plug on funding mid license.

ME - because they did, so again why should Toulouse have to contractually provide funding and M62 clubs get in on a (clearly empty) promise??

Is it cos they is Frenchies?

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The idea is to put toulouse in SL to improve something. I think this is between a) the general image of the game, B) to bring in multinational sponsorship and c) improve the french game. I think I covered it there. To bring them in will likely mean sacrificing another team from SL. If Toulouse come in on a bunch of promises and then bail, none of this will be acheived, but we will have upset thousands(?) of fans from the 'heartlands'. I would like Toulouse to be in SL, but I think that if anything, the requirements should be more stringent as it will be at the expense of a club that has been part of English RL for many years.

 

Also I think that the failure of a 'forced' expansion team is more detrimental to RL than an M62 club. It reeks of desperation to those on the outside looking in. Maybe you are right though - maybe the RL should insist on contractual obligations for all teams purporting to be financially viable due to donations.

 

Nonetheless, can you clarify a couple of things for me - do NH, JF and JW all have financial considerations in their respective clubs? If so, stopping funding/selling up has a direct financial impact on them. They have already pumped plenty of their own money into the clubs. They clearly didn't get into it for a laugh. However, if the Marie decides to stop funding the RL team at the expense of (lets say) the local handball team, what impact does that have on the decision makers there?

 

As such, I don't think that comparing private funding to public funding is comparing apples with apples, is it?

 

Finally, I hope your last question is tongue in cheek - it's pretty offensive if you ask me.

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1. The idea is to put toulouse in SL to improve something. To bring them in will likely mean sacrificing another team from SL. I would like Toulouse to be in SL, but I think that if anything, the requirements should be more stringent as it will be at the expense of a club that has been part of English RL for many years.

 

2. I don't think that comparing private funding to public funding is comparing apples with apples, is it?

 

3. Finally, I hope your last question is tongue in cheek - it's pretty offensive if you ask me.

1.You forget good sir that it is an European Super league and is not designed for heartland clubs and traditional fans.

I'm as cheesed off with the people who made a mess of Paris, Gatehead and Crusaders as made a mess of Oldham, Halifax and Workington.

2. Clubs can fund their businesses the normal way or be propped up. IMHO props are props whether open or blind side

3. Firmly tongue in cheek, but just ask for an edit and public apolgy if you have the slightest of doubt.

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Maybe, but my point is that every semi-pro rugby league club in England is supported by a network of amateur clubs.  In France it would appear that Albi as a City is represented by one semi-pro club and no other amateur clubs.  If it were ever to make the grade (and I'm using it at an theoretical example as I have no grasp on how big they are these days) and have SL ambitions, it's supporting network will be the other semi-pro clubs rather than a local network of junior clubs providing a conveyer belt of young players.

 

Again, I may be wrong, but my impression of both Toulouse and Albi is that they are one club cities, and that in French RL there is no real equivalent of the Pennine League, the Yorkshire League, the Cumbrian League, NL3, conferences etc.  

you are quite right sir - the problem with english sorry, british fans is that they invariably fail to understand that France is not England and the whole demography, way of life and social structure etc etc is different, not better or worse, just different

Albi area does have an equivalent structure with clubs like Villefranche d'Albi, Lescure Valderies & Réalmont plus others in the lower league acting as feeder clubs and Toulouse have the Broncos, Ramonville, Sauveterre & St Gaudens plus others as feeder clubs from the lower leagues

The population density in these areas is relatively sparse compared to the congested english rl heartlands - you can't compare the two just take each  case individually

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No problemo. I'll be less mard next time.

It's not about keeping it for the heartlands. I'm not from the heartlands and nor do I live there so it'd benefit me for there to be good expansion. However, I fear that more expansion clubs falling makes us look even worse than the m62 clubs. Unfortunately the latter appears to be the status quo whereas the former actually tales the game further backwards

1.You forget good sir that it is an European Super league and is not designed for heartland clubs and traditional fans.

I'm as cheesed off with the people who made a mess of Paris, Gatehead and Crusaders as made a mess of Oldham, Halifax and Workington.

2. Clubs can fund their businesses the normal way or be propped up. IMHO props are props whether open or blind side

3. Firmly tongue in cheek, but just ask for an edit and public apolgy if you have the slightest of doubt.

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See, this is what I worry about with Toulouse. The Marie (?) will supposedly be big funders for Toulouse in SL. But is there a contract, a guaranteed level of funding for x years? Otherwise who can say that the next Mayor won't pull the plug or somesuch?

Funding for the ESL won't be coming from the city council - they own the Stade Arnauné so it is their decision to refurbish the stadium or not. They obviously want some confirmation that they are not wasting taxpayers money for nowt so they are awaiting the ESL decision, which is quite understandable. Their remit is to renovate the stadium in order to take 10K speccies, no more and no less. Any other funding will come from local and international sponsorship, tv deal with the Catalans and club iniatives to raise money. The Mairie can't 'pull the plug' except if TO13 are unable to pay the rent, one would assume.

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It's not about keeping it for the heartlands. I'm not from the heartlands and nor do I live there so it'd benefit me for there to be good expansion. However, I fear that more expansion clubs falling makes us look even worse than the m62 clubs. Unfortunately the latter appears to be the status quo whereas the former actually tales the game further backwards

I'm not sure of your point. We have had Paris fail, Sheffield fail, Gateshead fail, Celtic Crusaders fail, London are set to fail.

At the end of the day those in the game and those interested in the game will feel a sense of failure and see these things as a blow. The tens of millions of people not interested in the game, not watching or listening to our troubles won't care a hoot, and wouldn't even know "expansion" is failing so I am at a loss to see how these things are a disadvantage to the game.

There is an argument that we should not put certain clubs on telly because their half empty grounds "makes us look bad". Again I don't see how this matters, at least not anywhere as much as making the right decisions for the game.

You talk about the "heartlands" and "expansion". Rugby League has been about both northern england and southern france since the 1930's, the two countries played test matches and competed in the World Cup many times, the European Super League is not expanding into new places for the game by admitting Catalans who succeeded because the game was already established in southern France. Likewise Toulouse isn't "expansion" and the conditions for failure that existed in places like wales and the north east are not the conditions Toulouse will enter under.

Indeed in 1996 Toulouse were planned as being original entrants to the Superleague, they're a traditional club who have been waiting/knocking on the door for 17 years, just like Featherstone Rovers, and I am of the strong opinion we should recognise this and stop making unfair distinctions, especially where Toulouse can enter if they deposit a few million with the RFL, whilst Faisal Nahaboo can promise to bankroll Featherstone.

Both are very keen to come into SL and give it new life. Beggars can't be choosers.

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Well Pia have gone. Only rugby league at Stade Ambert next season will be I understand the Pia Baroudeurs who play in N1. Carcassonne have picked up skipper Max Greseque & prop Ben Vaeau & talk of French internationai wing Clement Soubayras. Cyril Stacul to Lezignan & other former Dragons Andrew & Kane Bentley to Toulouse the latter will spend the off season at Dewsbury. Its a pity this pair didn't put their hands up earlier when Toulouse were in the Championship; they could have made a difference.Still better late than never.

Fed President Zalduendo has indicated that they will not run with an Elite 1 of just eight travellers; they talking now of two pools of 6 or 8 starting in September. Look like first group will be Carcassonne, Lezignan, Limoux, Avignon, St Esteve & Toulouse & second with Villeneuve, Palau & four others yet to be announced. Could be from Tonneins, Baho, Lyon, Albi, Cavaillon, St Gaudens. May be they're looking at each pool playing home & away and then just one game against each of the other pool giving possible 16 games. It gives the comp a wider foot print much needed but not sure whether the gap between the two will be too big.

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Ah, fair enough. I seem to recall other posters suggesting that a great deal of the funding would come from the Marie. My mistake.

Funding for the ESL won't be coming from the city council - they own the Stade Arnauné so it is their decision to refurbish the stadium or not. They obviously want some confirmation that they are not wasting taxpayers money for nowt so they are awaiting the ESL decision, which is quite understandable. Their remit is to renovate the stadium in order to take 10K speccies, no more and no less. Any other funding will come from local and international sponsorship, tv deal with the Catalans and club iniatives to raise money. The Mairie can't 'pull the plug' except if TO13 are unable to pay the rent, one would assume.

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Well Pia have gone. Only rugby league at Stade Ambert next season will be I understand the Pia Baroudeurs who play in N1. Carcassonne have picked up skipper Max Greseque & prop Ben Vaeau & talk of French internationai wing Clement Soubayras. Cyril Stacul to Lezignan & other former Dragons Andrew & Kane Bentley to Toulouse the latter will spend the off season at Dewsbury. Its a pity this pair didn't put their hands up earlier when Toulouse were in the Championship; they could have made a difference.Still better late than never.

Fed President Zalduendo has indicated that they will not run with an Elite 1 of just eight travellers; they talking now of two pools of 6 or 8 starting in September. Look like first group will be Carcassonne, Lezignan, Limoux, Avignon, St Esteve & Toulouse & second with Villeneuve, Palau & four others yet to be announced. Could be from Tonneins, Baho, Lyon, Albi, Cavaillon, St Gaudens. May be they're looking at each pool playing home & away and then just one game against each of the other pool giving possible 16 games. It gives the comp a wider foot print much needed but not sure whether the gap between the two will be too big.

 

Thanks for the update. Hard to comprehend the champions of a league not taking part the following season.

 

Interesting to see how they set things up for next season.

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I have always thought it was amazing that FRL could produce so many talented players given the fact that it was under constant pressure, outside of the maire and a few local sponsors there has NEVER been any income from TV or major corporations.

 

 

Too true. It's amazing to think what could be achieved if they had the resources.

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Lyon may or may not be there in September but they've just organsied their most successful challenge petit treize for primary schools in the city. 1400 took part. Bravo les Gones!

Panorama-desparticipants2013PhotoPaisse_

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Why isnt there standards based promotion from the Elite 1 to SL in 2015 and then again in 2017? This would allow clubs to challenge Toulouse for the right and make it more exciting

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Never has there been a time in the history of RL than now that we need to have more french involvement in SL THEY NEED IT AND WE NEED IT TO:))))

CM

You keep posting old lad, especially as you now have the Spracklen seal of approval.

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One hopes all will be OK however from what i am hearing its reached crises point and at least 2 other clubs are on the verge:)

I have always thought it was amazing that FRL could produce so many talented players given the fact that it was under constant pressure, outside of the maire and a few local sponsors there has NEVER been any income from TV or major corporations.

Never has there been a time in the history of RL than now that we need to have more french involvement in SL THEY NEED IT AND WE NEED IT TO:))))

CM

ABSOLUTELY AGREE!

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Well when some thought we may have a comp of six or seven the Federation appear to have announced a joined up elite of 20 clubs! It includes a first phase running from Sept-January with 3 pools:

Pool elite 1 Avignon-Carassonne-Lezignan-Limoux-St Esteve-Toulouse-Villeneuve-Palau

Pool elite 2 west Albi-St Gaudens-Tonneins-Toulouse Broncos-Villefrance-Realmont

Pool elite 3 east Lescure-Baho-Carpentras-Cavaillon-Lyon-Montpellier

Second phase five pools of 4

Play Offs with 8 teams to qualify.

They're trying at least and have put it out there far earlier than previously. Fixtures I believe to be announced today.

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Poule 2 and 3 are elite 2, poule 1 play each other as does the two regional elite 2 poules,

Then split again and the top 4 from elite 1 go in a league then the bottom four go into a group with the best of elite 2. And the rest in another group,

Then the playoffs and the top two of elite 1 straight into the semis and the next two into the quarters to play against the best of the other group,

Or something along those lines as I've only read it ten times and still not sure,

Simple!

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Good to see Montpellier has been put into a group in elite 2,

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Poule 2 and 3 are elite 2, poule 1 play each other as does the two regional elite 2 poules,

Then split again and the top 4 from elite 1 go in a league then the bottom four go into a group with the best of elite 2. And the rest in another group,

Then the playoffs and the top two of elite 1 straight into the semis and the next two into the quarters to play against the best of the other group,

Or something along those lines as I've only read it ten times and still not sure,

Simple!

Its a bit convoluted to say the least! I'm not keen on teams playing each other four times in regulat season. How many Aude derbys can we stand. I think esssiential though they are trying to re-engage with the likes of St Gaudens, Lyon, Montpellier, Villefranche, Albi & Carpentras who have all played at elite 1 level in the last decade or more. Some of these clubs have already indicated that they were looking at moving up in 2014 along with a possible new Bordeaux set up. The regional nature of the first phase sounds right too. I think above all Zalduendo didn't want to see Midi Olympique along with others displaying an eight team comp representing France.

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Feel for baho in the group they're in, the nearest away game is 2 hours away!, good news for my team in federal we've managed to get the ex coach of pia! He seems very keen too!

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Feel for baho in the group they're in, the nearest away game is 2 hours away!, good news for my team in federal we've managed to get the ex coach of pia! He seems very keen too!

I think a few seasons back Baho hired a plane to take them to play a game in Paris. May be they'll allow the TGV to take the strain then on their trips north. Them & Palau though have some decent players too & should be OK. We'll have to wait & see.

Is it Mr Alberola then with your mob!

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Yes it's him, with me and Fred helping and maybe the boots back on from me!

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Well when some thought we may have a comp of six or seven the Federation appear to have announced a joined up elite of 20 clubs! It includes a first phase running from Sept-January with 3 pools:

Pool elite 1 Avignon-Carassonne-Lezignan-Limoux-St Esteve-Toulouse-Villeneuve-Palau

Pool elite 2 west Albi-St Gaudens-Tonneins-Toulouse Broncos-Villefrance-Realmont

Pool elite 3 east Lescure-Baho-Carpentras-Cavaillon-Lyon-Montpellier

Second phase five pools of 4

Play Offs with 8 teams to qualify.

They're trying at least and have put it out there far earlier than previously. Fixtures I believe to be announced today.

quite agree Gordon, the FFR13 have worked quickly to find a kind of system which will hopefully be workable, I can't imagine such a rapid response coming from previous regimes - regarding the pools, Palau look to be the potential whipping boys unless they can recruit well,so far they have an all french set-up including a few ex Dragons with Touxegas, Marginet and Prunac adding a bit of experience - the UTC v Palau games should be fiery encounters !

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The format seems as clear as mud, at least big cities involved, given albi spending they will end up in finals.

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