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John Drake

14/06/13 - England v Exiles - KO 8pm

Are you going to the game?   40 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you going to the game?

    • Yes
      5
    • No
      33
    • Undecided
      2
  2. 2. Who will win?

    • England by 13 points or more
      9
    • England by 7-12 points
      10
    • England by 1-6 points
      2
    • Draw
      1
    • Exiles by 1-6 points
      3
    • Exiles by 7-12 points
      8
    • Exiles by 13 points or more
      7

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392 posts in this topic

Going back to the game, it's clear the Exiles started playing a bit in the second half, but I've often wondered with games like these whether these situations are "manufactured" in order for the team to test their defence.

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Well I thought neither of them were particularly effective with their distribution on Friday. Neither was Chase. However, if I am wrong about both players, there must be an issue somewhere as I can't recall us often creating an overlap with our across the field passing, which teams like Wigan, Australia etc do time and time again. Maybe it is Roby? Too slow from dummy half?

 

Out of interest, does Myler play first receiver at Warrington or Briers?

 

For what it is worth ref your comment about New Zealand, when they have beaten the Aussies in important games, they have had either Stacey Jones or Benjo Marshall at 6 or 7 and we certainly do not have anyone remotely close to the standard of these two players in our half backs.

I think it is very difficult to judge the distribution based on the game the other night.

 

Sinfield - played at 6 for 20 minutes during the tough forwards battle. He then moved to 9, there was nothing in that first half to suggest distribution was an issue.

 

Myler - only played with Sinfield for 20 mins as above, so that combination can't be overly analysed. Myler did a decent job, his play for Cudjoe's first try was the most skilful play of the night imho, but tbf that supports your short passing point.

 

Chase - I think it is fair to say that he didn;t have his best game, his passing was average, I'm not sure whether coming off the bench left him a bit cold as his link play was out of sorts.

 

In the 2nd half England made plenty of mistakes, were defending for large parts, and quite simply I don't think we had too many ptb's in positions where the wide link play could be demonstrated.

 

Look back at the 2011/12 Test matches though and you have seen all three of these players play a very expansive game with a lot of success.

 

At Warrington Myler will alternate between 1st and 2nd receiver with Briers. His passing has improved out of sight, and Warrington are one of the best teams for link play, moving the ball from one side of the pitch in two passes before bringing in Hodgson, Grix, Ratchford or Atkins. Being able to bring Tomkins in on such a quick play is exciting, but I agree we didn't see that so much the other night.

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Well I thought neither of them were particularly effective with their distribution on Friday. Neither was Chase. However, if I am wrong about both players, there must be an issue somewhere as I can't recall us often creating an overlap with our across the field passing, which teams like Wigan, Australia etc do time and time again. Maybe it is Roby? Too slow from dummy half?

 

.

Maybe it was nothing to do with the players?  Maybe it was the coaching?

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Hock would play for me. Last time we beat the Aussies on home soil, I believe we had Ryan Bailey and Barrie McDermott playing to rough them up etc and it worked. Hock can be pentulant at times but we need a bit of real ogre in our pack. For far too long, we have let the likes of Gallen, Watmough etc dominate and stamp all over our so called excellent forwards. It is about time we gave some back i.e the last time we did in Sydney, we won the game again. I am not suggesting we start scrapping, far from it, but we need to stand up to the aggressiveness of the Aussie forwards and give it back to them in spades. Hock, even Westwood, are the types of players and talent to do this.

 Yep, I agree with the mongrel part, and I'd go with a pack of:

 

Graham

Roby

Burgess

Westwood

Ellis - if he can get fit and on form

O'Loughlin

 

G Burgess

Mossop

Hill/Carvell

 

This is a big aggressive pack - I'd have picked Peacock if he was fit, and it's a year too late for Morley, but I don't think Hock has the right temprement. He loses his rag at silly times.

 

I think a pack like the above has physical presence, Westwood certainly got stuck in at Wembley in 2011!

 

As long as we steer clear of the likes of JJB, Farrell and Wilkin who do a solid job but hardly scare the opposition then I think our pack could go well.

 

Like you I want dynamic!

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Post didn't make sense without the quote.

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Yep, I agree with the mongrel part, and I'd go with a pack of:

Graham

Roby

Burgess

Westwood

Ellis - if he can get fit and on form

O'Loughlin

G Burgess

Mossop

Hill/Carvell

This is a big aggressive pack - I'd have picked Peacock if he was fit, and it's a year too late for Morley, but I don't think Hock has the right temprement. He loses his rag at silly times.

I think a pack like the above has physical presence, Westwood certainly got stuck in at Wembley in 2011!

As long as we steer clear of the likes of JJB, Farrell and Wilkin who do a solid job but hardly scare the opposition then I think our pack could go well.

Like you I want dynamic!

No Crabtree?

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No Crabtree?

yep was a quick post tbh. Off the bench.

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 Yep, I agree with the mongrel part, and I'd go with a pack of:

 

Graham

Roby

Burgess

Westwood

Ellis - if he can get fit and on form

O'Loughlin

 

G Burgess

Mossop

Hill/Carvell

 

This is a big aggressive pack - I'd have picked Peacock if he was fit, and it's a year too late for Morley, but I don't think Hock has the right temprement. He loses his rag at silly times.

 

I think a pack like the above has physical presence, Westwood certainly got stuck in at Wembley in 2011!

 

As long as we steer clear of the likes of JJB, Farrell and Wilkin who do a solid job but hardly scare the opposition then I think our pack could go well.

 

Like you I want dynamic!

I think Carvell is i) gonna play for Wales and ii) past it (which is why he's rumoured to be Bradford bound)

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I think Carvell is i) gonna play for Wales and ii) past it (which is why he's rumoured to be Bradford bound)

i noticed Carvell appeared to be in the England camp on Friday night.

He's not what he was but he still does a good job.

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Look back at the 2011/12 Test matches though and you have seen all three of these players play a very expansive game with a lot of success.

 

I just have via you tube. When England scored on an overlap out wide, Chase was first receiver every time as far I could tell who plays at a much higher tempo than Sinfield. Sinfield produced a gem of a pass for Hall's first try at Wembley but wasn't first receiver each time. The same with the Aussies. Thurston was always first receiver, played quickly and then handed it out wide to Lockyer. That first receiver is key. Whoever it is MUST distribute that ball quickly to the second receiver. I personally don't feel we have got that right, especially against quality defences with Sinfield at first receiver.

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I just have via you tube. When England scored on an overlap out wide, Chase was first receiver every time as far I could tell who plays at a much higher tempo than Sinfield. Sinfield produced a gem of a pass for Hall's first try at Wembley but wasn't first receiver each time. The same with the Aussies. Thurston was always first receiver, played quickly and then handed it out wide to Lockyer. That first receiver is key. Whoever it is MUST distribute that ball quickly to the second receiver. I personally don't feel we have got that right, especially against quality defences with Sinfield at first receiver.

Chase didnt play in the first two tests of 2012 and the link was excellent there too.

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Chase didnt play in the first two tests of 2012 and the link was excellent there too.

 

I didn't look at the 2012 games as there is a huge gulf between the defensive capabilities of Wales and France to those of Australia and New Zealand.

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I didn't look at the 2012 games as there is a huge gulf between the defensive capabilities of Wales and France to those of Australia and New Zealand.

i accept that but by looking at 2011 only Myler doesnt appwar (iirc) - that was tge reason I suggested 11&12

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i accept that but by looking at 2011 only Myler doesnt appwar (iirc) - that was tge reason I suggested 11&12

 

I'll bow to your expertise on Myler but long passing game on Fri was not up to scratch to trouble Australia in Cardiff in my opinion, no matter who was 6 or 7.

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I'll bow to your expertise on Myler but long passing game on Fri was not up to scratch to trouble Australia in Cardiff in my opinion, no matter who was 6 or 7.

I think i've deleted it from the box now, but from memory England didn't have great field position or possession to demonstrate this element of our game.

 

BTW, if you have any doubts about Myler's passing ability may I suggest this one:

 

:ph34r:  :tongue:

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BTW, if you have any doubts about Myler's passing ability may I suggest this one:

 

:ph34r:  :tongue:

 

I did say I'd bow to your expertise on Myler as I have sneaky suspicion from the facial features it'll involve Saints so not looking... :D

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I did say I'd bow to your expertise on Myler as I have sneaky suspicion from the facial features it'll involve Saints so not looking... :D

:sleep:  I don't know what you could mean!

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