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tuutaisrambo

League and Union comparison.........info please?

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Hello all


Out of interest i’ve been looking into the popularity of the two codes of rugby and what this difference is and i just wondered if anyone can add to what’ve i’ve found on Wikepedia?


Stats for 2011 from WIKIPEDIA


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_rugby_league_and_rugby_union#Finance_and_scale


Highlights are...


RFL Turnover - £29m


RFU Turnover - £130m


RU Participation in UK 1.99 million people


RL Participation in UK 100k including wheelchair rugby.


The difference is somewhat flipped in Australia although not as extreme.


Does anyone have any more up to date figures...is RL getting close or further away?


Although i’ve always known that RU is the more popular i didn’t quite realise the difference in scale between the two which appears to be enormous.


I know some RL fans don’t like RU and question/compare how the governing bodies perform....however looking at this i fail to see how RL fans can question say....why the BBC pay more attention to Union?  It’s blatantly obvious.


THIS IS NOT LEAGUE OR UNION BASHING COS I LIKE BOTH!!!!!


If you have any further or better info about the popularity of the two codes please update me?


Cheers

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One comparison you can draw from an independent source with no axe to grind or other reason to fiddle the figures is the B.A.R.B. TV viewing figures. I think you need to take out membership for detailed information, but the Channel-by Channel Top Ten listings are free for anyone to browse.

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I would be very suspicious of data put out by the RFU and that's not union bashing as I quite like it.

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Wrong forum

I don't think the OP has enough posts to unlock the Cross-Code forum.

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I don't think the OP has enough posts to unlock the Cross-Code forum.

Unfortunately, that's correct.  As a one-off to assist the original poster I'll leave this thread open for someone to help him by giving him accurate figures.

Please do not stray too far beyond the original post's request.  I will lock the thread at the first post that pushes the line in the slightest.

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If the question is to do with paying for TV then the right stats are viewing figures, surely? Which presumably reflect popularity pretty accurately?

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I'd take the RFU figures for participation with a pinch of salt, if a school has a rugby pitch/team then they claim the entire population of the school is participating.

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I'd take the RFU figures for participation with a pinch of salt, if a school has a rugby pitch/team then they claim the entire population of the school is participating.

They haven't been averse to a bit of enthusiastic rounding-up of figures either, over the years.

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No, I don't have any more up to date or accurate figures.

 

What I will say, though, is that bloody union lot ...

 

*stands back and watches thread get moved*

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They haven't been averse to a bit of enthusiastic rounding-up of figures either, over the years.

another one is where they have a members social club, if you are a member they count you as participating even if you don't play the game.

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Not sure if it's a coincidence or not but Sport England released the latest statistics today on participation.  Here's my summary of the data in their release of those who participate, that is actually play according to their replies to the survey.


Rugby league

2013: 48,700 (year on year decrease of 9600)

2012: 58,100 (note, the Excel sheet on that page has a different date range while the PDF shows year on year)

2008: 82,000

 

Rugby union:

2013: 166,400 (year on year decrease of 31,100)

2012: 197,500

2008: 230,300

 

What people in rugby league fail to realise is that there's a large player pool in union below first team level, veteran's rugby adds a massive number to the total of players who still play identical laws to the first team game.  Rugby league has nothing like this and the adult laws are quite difficult to play as someone 40+.

 

For those interested in detail, the second page of statistics documents has all you'll need to justify almost any point you want to make!


Whatever you think, rugby league losing 16% of the playing numbers in a year is a disturbing number, I hope there's a genuine reason for this that's related to the statistics otherwise there's a massive problem somewhere.

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Looking at the significant drops for both sports, I would suspect that Sport England have altered their criteria rather than any major problems as such.

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Thanks for that post ckn. I agree that the decline in numbers looks alarming, but as the union numbers are down by

15.75% it would appear that the methodology may have changed. I would have thought that the numbers would have been further apart. Could you leave the thread here if you decide to close it? I haven't enough posts yet to go to the other place.

Also, does anyone know if tag rugby participation counts? At the junior school where I work, the kids play tag and the rules are much closer to League than Union. Games have been officiated by students from Southgate College connected with Skolars as well as the local Union clubs; I bet their participation rates count towards the union side though.

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Thanks for that post ckn. I agree that the decline in numbers looks alarming, but as the union numbers are down by

15.75% it would appear that the methodology may have changed. I would have thought that the numbers would have been further apart. Could you leave the thread here if you decide to close it? I haven't enough posts yet to go to the other place.

Also, does anyone know if tag rugby participation counts? At the junior school where I work, the kids play tag and the rules are much closer to League than Union. Games have been officiated by students from Southgate College connected with Skolars as well as the local Union clubs; I bet their participation rates count towards the union side though.

Yep, I'll not be moving this.

I had a look through the methodology and I can't see where the drop comes from, especially as other sports have seen large rises in participation.  Both union and league have seen their overall percentage of people taking part in sport drop hinting that either there's a methodology point I've missed or there's a genuine hit on both sports.

The methodology specifically states that if someone mentions tag, touch or any other variant of "rugby" that they're then asked to specify union or league.  Here's the detail of what's counted for participation:

Rugby League: Rugby league - 13 a side game, rugby league - tag rugby, rugby league - touch rugby, rugby league - other

Rugby Union: Rugby union - 15 a side game, rugby union – sevens, rugby union - tag rugby, rugby union - touch rugby, rugby union - other

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Craig, is it anything to do with discounting club membership (social)? Maybe they used to count as one figure but now only count if you play?

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Also, does anyone know if tag rugby participation counts? At the junior school where I work, the kids play tag and the rules are much closer to League than Union. Games have been officiated by students from Southgate College connected with Skolars as well as the local Union clubs; I bet their participation rates count towards the union side though.

One of the reasons why tag rugby (and touch as well) resembles league is because it was derived from rugby league in Australia.

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RU Participation in UK 1.99 million people

RL Participation in UK 100k including wheelchair rugby.

 

It doesn't seem likely to me that 2 million people play rugby union in the UK.   That's one person in every 30.    Let's think about an utterly ordinary town like Swindon, which has 209,000 people

 

If 1 person in 30 in Swindon played rugby union, that would mean Swindon had 6,966 rugby players.   To put it another way, Swindon would have 464 rugby union teams.   Now, I know Swindon well and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that there are not 400+ rugby teams in that town.

 

Or any other town.

 

I suspect that number has been pulled out of some prop forwards backside.

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Craig, is it anything to do with discounting club membership (social)? Maybe they used to count as one figure but now only count if you play?

This is active participation count rather than membership counts, I think in the early 2000s they used figures supplied by the governing bodies but now do their own research to try to get actual participation figures.  It looks like the methodology has remained unchanged for four years and before then it wasn't too much different.

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Not sure if it's a coincidence or not but Sport England released the latest statistics today on participation.  Here's my summary of the data in their release of those who participate, that is actually play according to their replies to the survey.

Rugby league

2013: 48,700 (year on year decrease of 9600)

2012: 58,100 (note, the Excel sheet on that page has a different date range while the PDF shows year on year)

2008: 82,000

 

Rugby union:

2013: 166,400 (year on year decrease of 31,100)

2012: 197,500

2008: 230,300

 

I suspect these numbers are a lot more accurate than the numbers in the OP, but there must be some kind of problem with them.   I don't think nearly half of all rugby players (both codes) have given up in the last few years.

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I had a look through the methodology and I can't see where the drop comes from, especially as other sports have seen large rises in participation.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading that the criteria changed as regards how many times a week someone played a sport. It had to be more than once. This, of course, would hit the figures for both codes of Rugby a lot harder than, say Tennis, Football, other less physically tough sports (especially at amateur/youth/casual level). I very much doubt that actual participation numbers have dropped in either code - a whole lot of people just became statistically ineligible.

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It doesn't seem likely to me that 2 million people play rugby union in the UK.   That's one person in every 30.    Let's think about an utterly ordinary town like Swindon, which has 209,000 people

 

If 1 person in 30 in Swindon played rugby union, that would mean Swindon had 6,966 rugby players.   To put it another way, Swindon would have 464 rugby union teams.   Now, I know Swindon well and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that there are not 400+ rugby teams in that town.

 

Or any other town.

 

I suspect that number has been pulled out of some prop forwards backside.

I could edit that Wikipedia stat to read that there were only two union players in the UK and they're both exiled Kiwis.  Not a source to be trusted except as a trivia site.

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What I can read is that this is active participation count rather than membership counts, I think in the early 2000s they used figures supplied by the governing bodies but now do their own research to try to get actual participation figures.  It looks like the methodology has remained unchanged for four years and before then it wasn't too much different.

 

It's just with this CASC thing going on as well as these figures, I'm getting really worried that there's some sort of bad news coming 

http://www.sportandrecreation.org.uk/lobbying-and-campaigning/consultations/05-06-2013/community-amateur-sports-clubs-scheme

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It's just with this CASC thing going on as well as these figures, I'm getting really worried that there's some sort of bad news coming 

http://www.sportandrecreation.org.uk/lobbying-and-campaigning/consultations/05-06-2013/community-amateur-sports-clubs-scheme

There's so much abuse of the CASC status that I'm seriously surprised that it hasn't either been closed or tightened up to be almost impossible to use.

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